Cpu confusion

[ChaseDown]

 So I posted a lol while ago about the build I'm working on. And I said I decided on a r7 2700x I was going to water cool using a 280mm aio and let it run free and auto oc.  The reason for the choice was that I was gonna multitask( game, surf net, watch YouTube/Netflix, and or stream, assume at least 2 of these things at all times). And if im playing at 1440p the gpu would be the bottleneck.

But then nvidia drops their new cards and I know we are a week away from nda but here's my question:

 

If a r7 2700x is OK at 1440p because there is a gpu "BOTTLENECK" wont more powerful gpus mean the 2700x is the bottleneck in a year or 2? 

This is important to me because my cyrrent system I have a i5 2500k oced for 6 going on 7 years, I would like my new system to not be the bottleneck for at least 3-5.  Any help would be appreciated.

If anyone does a build suggestion my budget is 2500-2700 USD I want to use a cube case like rosewill cullinan px, or anidees crystal cube lite, price needs to include 100+hz monitor with the branded sync and windows, nvme ssd for os, ssd for everything else.

But just a suggestion on cpu is all I looking for.

[emosun]

bottlenecks are determined through usage not parts simply existing in the machine

you build the machine , use it as you want , then watch the usage on various components to find the bottleneck.

you don't sit and speculate what a bottleneck is with no baseline or any machine or any results..... that's just silly.

[lmeneses]

3 minutes ago, ChaseDown said:

 So I posted a lol while ago about the build I'm working on. And I said I decided on a r7 2700x I was going to water cool using a 280mm aio and let it run free and auto oc.  The reason for the choice was that I was gonna multitask( game, surf net, watch YouTube/Netflix, and or stream, assume at least 2 of these things at all times). And if im playing at 1440p the gpu would be the bottleneck.

But then nvidia drops their new cards and I know we are a week away from nda but here's my question:

 

If a r7 2700x is OK at 1440p because there is a gpu "BOTTLENECK" wont more powerful gpus mean the 2700x is the bottleneck in a year or 2? 

This is important to me because my cyrrent system I have a i5 2500k oced for 6 going on 7 years, I would like my new system to not be the bottleneck for at least 3-5.  Any help would be appreciated.

If anyone does a build suggestion my budget is 2500-2700 USD I want to use a cube case like rosewill cullinan px, or anidees crystal cube lite, price needs to include 100+hz monitor with the branded sync and windows, nvme ssd for os, ssd for everything else.

But just a suggestion on cpu is all I looking for.

With an R7, it'll be future proof for more than 2 years (especially with oc), but if you wanna wait for new AMD processors, they are set to release mid 2019 I think. The intel processors are releasing in less then a month, as well. 

[KarathKasun]

6 minutes ago, ChaseDown said:

 So I posted a lol while ago about the build I'm working on. And I said I decided on a r7 2700x I was going to water cool using a 280mm aio and let it run free and auto oc.  The reason for the choice was that I was gonna multitask( game, surf net, watch YouTube/Netflix, and or stream, assume at least 2 of these things at all times). And if im playing at 1440p the gpu would be the bottleneck.

But then nvidia drops their new cards and I know we are a week away from nda but here's my question:

 

If a r7 2700x is OK at 1440p because there is a gpu "BOTTLENECK" wont more powerful gpus mean the 2700x is the bottleneck in a year or 2? 

This is important to me because my cyrrent system I have a i5 2500k oced for 6 going on 7 years, I would like my new system to not be the bottleneck for at least 3-5.  Any help would be appreciated.

If anyone does a build suggestion my budget is 2500-2700 USD I want to use a cube case like rosewill cullinan px, or anidees crystal cube lite, price needs to include 100+hz monitor with the branded sync and windows, nvme ssd for os, ssd for everything else.

But just a suggestion on cpu is all I looking for.

This condition is always the case.  No matter what CPU you get, it generally will not keep up with GPUs in a few years.  Intel had zero competition from ~2010 to ~2016, so CPU performance did not really go forward much from Sandy Bridge to Kaby Lake if you OC'd SB to ~5ghz.  This was actually an anomaly in CPU performance VS GPU performance over time.

[Crunchy Dragon]

-Moved to CPUs, Motherboards, and Memory-

 

9 minutes ago, KarathKasun said:

This condition is always the case.  No matter what CPU you get, it generally will not keep up with GPUs in a few years.

If that's the case, then why does a 3770K run a 1080 SLI at 3440x1440 with no problems?

9 minutes ago, KarathKasun said:

Intel had zero competition from ~2010 to ~2016, so CPU performance did not really go forward much from Sandy Bridge to Kaby Lake if you OC'd SB to ~5ghz.

Is Sandy Bridge even capable of 5Ghz? I've not heard of that being possible without LN2 or something similar. Last I heard, Coffee Lake was the first to break 5Ghz on normal cooling.

[KarathKasun]

1 minute ago, Crunchy Dragon said:

-Moved to CPUs, Motherboards, and Memory-

 

If that's the case, then why does a 3770K run a 1080 SLI at 3440x1440 with no problems?

Is Sandy Bridge even capable of 5Ghz? I've not heard of that being possible without LN2 or something similar. Last I heard, Coffee Lake was the first to break 5Ghz on normal cooling.

Yes, I have a 2600k that will do 5ghz on air (really big air, but air nonetheless).

[Wh0_Am_1]

19 minutes ago, ChaseDown said:

 So I posted a lol while ago about the build I'm working on. And I said I decided on a r7 2700x I was going to water cool using a 280mm aio and let it run free and auto oc.  The reason for the choice was that I was gonna multitask( game, surf net, watch YouTube/Netflix, and or stream, assume at least 2 of these things at all times). And if im playing at 1440p the gpu would be the bottleneck.

But then nvidia drops their new cards and I know we are a week away from nda but here's my question:

 

If a r7 2700x is OK at 1440p because there is a gpu "BOTTLENECK" wont more powerful gpus mean the 2700x is the bottleneck in a year or 2? 

This is important to me because my cyrrent system I have a i5 2500k oced for 6 going on 7 years, I would like my new system to not be the bottleneck for at least 3-5.  Any help would be appreciated.

If anyone does a build suggestion my budget is 2500-2700 USD I want to use a cube case like rosewill cullinan px, or anidees crystal cube lite, price needs to include 100+hz monitor with the branded sync and windows, nvme ssd for os, ssd for everything else.

But just a suggestion on cpu is all I looking for.

Bottlenecks are determined through software and hardware trends and personal use cases, software is designed so that it can better use available hardware and vice-versa, so while it may seem that way this is not always the case, a good example of this is Crysis, it was assumed at the time of it's development that CPU tech would continue developing at it rate in which it was advancing, but that was not the case, so the predicting as they had Crysis became a very CPU reliant game, one that even the most modern of CPUs struggles to play because Intel and AMD slowed developement of their tech, meanwhile Nvidia was throwing things into 5th gear and rapidly started advancing their GPU making leaps and bounds in progress of their tech, that is why games now are designed as they are to take advantage of the powerful GPUs that Nvidia and (AMD) Radeon have produced.

6 minutes ago, Crunchy Dragon said:

 

 

If that's the case, then why does a 3770K run a 1080 SLI at 3440x1440 with no problems?

 

 Because of the cycle of software and hardware development, each design their products to take better advantage of one another.

[ManEatingFridge]

Well 8700k does outperform Ryzen by a bit (10-20 fps at 100+ framerates, basically higher max). 9700k should mitigate that by also giving you 8 cores and soldered IHS for better OC. Even at 8700k 6 cores if you're just streaming and gaming there should be no real issues. So if you care about that slightly higher max fps go for 9700k, if you want you can wait for 7nm FinFET (Zen 2), if you get 2700 you won't be bottled below like 100 fps and crush multitasking.

 

By the way : 

 

I personally couldn't bear waiting till 2019 lol, kinda in the same situation as you but FX 8350... 

[ChaseDown]

10 minutes ago, emosun said:

bottlenecks are determined through usage not parts simply existing in the machine

you build the machine , use it as you want , then watch the usage on various components to find the bottleneck.

you don't sit and speculate what a bottleneck is with no baseline or any machine or any results..... that's just silly.

Sorry if I wasnt clear the usage I'm talking about is high(100+)fps gaming at 1440p while multitasking. And the question is basically as I upgrade my gpu over time, will I start to see a r7 2700x keep me from the highest fps possible compaired to a i7 8700k for,example. And I based my statement. Earlier off,of video reviews comparing a 8700k to a 2700x gaming at different resolutions, at 1080p a 8700k is usually noticeably(measurably) faster(more fps) but at 1440p its usually indistinguishable. So I'm asking as I upgrade my gpu, but keeping the same cpu(2700x) will I see the 1440p results mirror the 1080p results.

[Wh0_Am_1]

1 minute ago, ChaseDown said:

Sorry if I wasnt clear the usage I'm talking about is high(100+)fps gaming at 1440p while multitasking. And the question is basically as I upgrade my gpu over time, will I start to see a r7 2700x keep me from the highest fps possible compaired to a i7 8700k for,example. And I based my statement. Earlier off,of video reviews comparing a 8700k to a 2700x gaming at different resolutions, at 1080p a 8700k is usually noticeably(measurably) faster(more fps) but at 1440p its usually indistinguishable. So I'm asking as I upgrade my gpu, but keeping the same cpu(2700x) will I see the 1440p results mirror the 1080p results.

Remember bottlenecking is relative, it depends on what you use a system for, hardware trends come about, and that is why future proofing is so difficult.

[lmeneses]

3 minutes ago, ManEatingFridge said:

Well 8700k does outperform Ryzen by a bit (10-20 fps at 100+ framerates, basically higher max). 9700k should mitigate that by also giving you 8 cores and soldered IHS for better OC. Even at 8700k 6 cores if you're just streaming and gaming there should be no real issues. So if you care about that slightly higher max fps go for 9700k, if you want you can wait for 7nm FinFET (Zen 2), if you get 2700 you won't be bottled below like 100 fps and crush multitasking.

 

I personally couldn't bear waiting till 2019 lol, kinda in the same situation as you but FX 8350... 

Well, differences in streaming are quite great when comparing ryzen with intel. Sure, intel can stream it, but at a very low quality, and at higher quality, the image stutters like you wouldn't believe (I couldn't believe it when i first saw). Plus, 10 to 20 fps difference at over 100 is impossible to tell 

[ChaseDown]

5 minutes ago, ManEatingFridge said:

Well 8700k does outperform Ryzen by a bit (10-20 fps at 100+ framerates, basically higher max). 9700k should mitigate that by also giving you 8 cores and soldered IHS for better OC. Even at 8700k 6 cores if you're just streaming and gaming there should be no real issues. So if you care about that slightly higher max fps go for 9700k, if you want you can wait for 7nm FinFET (Zen 2), if you get 2700 you won't be bottled below like 100 fps and crush multitasking.

 

I personally couldn't bear waiting till 2019 lol, kinda in the same situation as you but FX 8350... 

Thank you. This answer is very helpful to me.

[emosun]

2 minutes ago, ChaseDown said:

Sorry if I wasnt clear the usage I'm talking about is high(100+)fps gaming at 1440p while multitasking. And the question is basically as I upgrade my gpu over time, will I start to see a r7 2700x keep me from the highest fps possible compaired to a i7 8700k for,example. And I based my statement. Earlier off,of video reviews comparing a 8700k to a 2700x gaming at different resolutions, at 1080p a 8700k is usually noticeably(measurably) faster(more fps) but at 1440p its usually indistinguishable. So I'm asking as I upgrade my gpu, but keeping the same cpu(2700x) will I see the 1440p results mirror the 1080p results.

again you aren't listing software and you aren't actually checking where the bottleneck is on a machine>

you're effectively trying to predict the future without actually doing anything , if you achieve that then let me know right away as i'd like to get some lottery numbers.

[ManEatingFridge]

2 minutes ago, ChaseDown said:

will I see the 1440p results mirror the 1080p results.

Yes. Gpu gets bored at high fps, cpu needs to keep up. If you want constant 144+ or sth then go intel for now.

[ManEatingFridge]

2 minutes ago, lmeneses said:

Well, differences in streaming are quite great when comparing ryzen with intel. Sure, intel can stream it, but at a very low quality, and at higher quality, the image stutters like you wouldn't believe (I couldn't believe it when i first saw). Plus, 10 to 20 fps difference at over 100 is impossible to tell 

Current gen? I've heard that years ago but surely with 6 or next even 8 cores and much smaller processing node we should be clear of that now?

[lmeneses]

59 minutes ago, ManEatingFridge said:

Current gen? I've heard that years ago but surely with 6 or next even 8 cores and much smaller processing node we should be clear of that now?

I do not remember what video it was (I'll find it and show you), but it was only comparing a 2600x with an 8600k (not a 2700x and a 8700k), but the intel processor was absolutely horrible with streaming in decent equality. 

[KarathKasun]

2 hours ago, lmeneses said:

I do not remember what video it was (I'll find it and show you), but it was only comparing a 2600x with an 8600k (not a 2700x and a 8700k), but the intel processor was absolutely horrible with streaming in decent equality. 

Well, yeah, it has less threads.  For non-streaming though, the 8600k produces better FPS.  Mainly because clocks can be pushed much higher, giving better per thread performance.

[lmeneses]

30 minutes ago, KarathKasun said:

Well, yeah, it has less threads.  For non-streaming though, the 8600k produces better FPS.  Mainly because clocks can be pushed much higher, giving better per thread performance.

well, yes, im talking about streaming

[KarathKasun]

12 hours ago, lmeneses said:

well, yes, im talking about streaming

With minimal tweaking you can get decent streaming performance out of the 8600k.  If you want 144hz + streaming, the only viable option is going to be two boxes anyway.

[lmeneses]

38 minutes ago, KarathKasun said:

With minimal tweaking you can get decent streaming performance out of the 8600k.  If you want 144hz + streaming, the only viable option is going to be two boxes anyway.

? it's still worse than a ryzen that's not tweaked lmao, and ryzens only run 5-10 fps slower which you cant even notice

[KarathKasun]

3 minutes ago, lmeneses said:

? it's still worse than a ryzen that's not tweaked lmao, and ryzens only run 5-10 fps slower which you cant even notice

Overclock the 8600k, the gap widens considerably (Ryzen 2000 series does not benefit much from overclocking in games).  I could see the point of your argument if it was a non-K cpu, but it makes no sense against the K SKU.

[lmeneses]

Just now, KarathKasun said:

Overclock the 8600k, the gap widens considerably.  I could see the point of your argument if it was a non-K cpu, but it makes no sense against the K SKU.

overclock the ryzen and it closes the gap considerably? even with a 2600 which is almost $100 less

[KarathKasun]

7 minutes ago, lmeneses said:

overclock the ryzen and it closes the gap considerably? even with a 2600 which is almost $100 less

Ryzen does not gain much from overclocking in games because turbo tends to get the clocks higher than manual overclocks can.

 

Not to mention that the 2600x tops out at ~4.2ghz while the 8600k tops out at ~4.9 in addition to intel having a slight IPC lead.  In per core performance bound games, the difference can be up to 50%

[lmeneses]

1 minute ago, KarathKasun said:

Ryzen does not gain much from overclocking in games because turbo tends to get the clocks higher than manual overclocks can. 

eh i don't think thats true because the turbo boost on the 2600 is 3.9 GHz, and i've seen seen people overclock it to at least 4.2 

[KarathKasun]

1 minute ago, lmeneses said:

eh i don't think thats true because the turbo boost on the 2600 is 3.9 GHz, and i've seen seen people overclock it to at least 4.2 

2600X/2700X can boost to 4.3.