Windows 10 feels sluggish

[TheSparrow]

Hello girls and boys,

 

I might be suffering from a first world problem, really...

My Windows 10 PC (4690k, 16GB DDR3-1600, GTX 970, Samsung Evo 840 256 GB, WD Green 3TB secondary drive) feels sluggish when compared to a more modern (6th gen) midrange Intel rig.

I started noticing it while installing a basic Win10 computer at a customer's place. It was a no bells and whistles standard PC with a Samsung 860 Pro, 8GB of DDR4 and an i5-6400).

 

Windows boots up sooo much more quickly (I know, it's a fresh install, but still) and everything from launching applications to loading websites feels ages faster...

 

My SSD is far from full (atm around 50 GB in use, 180GB free) and I dont really use any tools that are supposed to 'make your PC faster!'... Only thing I do regularly is use Windows disk cleaning utility, use common sense on software to install and keep automatic startup as lean as possible (Steam, Dropbox, ClassicShell and Windows Defender Notification are enabled, everything else disabled).

 

My internet connection (wired) is also far from slow (80/15 MBit/s). Drivers are up to date so far, no old software on the system. Also I turned off most if not all of the Windows telemetry BS as well as indexing on the SSD. Trim is active.

 

As you can see I think I did my part. Do you guys have any ideas? I (atm) don't want to do a system reset but I might re-install Windows 10 during the cold winter hours with nothing else to do

It's far from unusable or anything but you know, when you spend a lot of money on a fairly balanced rig you don't want it to be outperformed by a midrange banger at a doctor's office...

 

Thanks for your input and if we don't see each other in the mean time: merry christmas!

 

Cheers, Mike

[EPPHO]

Faster SSD? Maybe that's why?

[Ashleyyyy]

are you sure your ssd and everything is still running okay? a system like that shouldn't be slow enough that it's noticeable.. a fresh install will always be faster but not enough that you'd really notice it that much. 

[JoostinOnline]

Open up command prompt and see what's talking up resources. It shouldn't be slow.

 

5 minutes ago, frozeNNN said:

Faster SSD? Maybe that's why?

He's got an incredibly fast SSD.

[TheSparrow]

Hi,

 

thanks for the replies. 

Is this considered slow or fast? I would think it's performing okay, no?

You think the RAM could be the culprit? But anything faster than this on a 1150 platform is not really feasable.

 

Or maybe EIST?

 

Cheers.

Edited August 26, 2018 by TheSparrow
addition

[EPPHO]

10 minutes ago, JoostinOnline said:

He's got an incredibly fast SSD.

Did I say he has a slow SSD?

[JoostinOnline]

18 minutes ago, TheSparrow said:

Hi,

 

thanks for the replies. 

Is this considered slow or fast? I would think it's performing okay, no?

You think the RAM could be the culprit? But anything faster than this on a 1150 platform is not really feasable.

 

Or maybe EIST?

 

Cheers.

For a boot drive, fast. There's next to no noticeable difference past 30MBps random reads.  You haven't addressed my question though.

9 minutes ago, frozeNNN said:

Did I say he has a slow SSD?

You suggested it had something to do with the SSD speed. If you know how SSD's work (or rather the programs that use them) then you'd understand diminishing returns.

[EPPHO]

1 minute ago, JoostinOnline said:

You suggested it had something to do with the SSD speed. If you know how SSD's work (or rather the programs that use them) then you'd understand diminishing returns.

SlowER SSD should outperform faster one?

[TheSparrow]

2 minutes ago, JoostinOnline said:

For a boot drive, fast. There's next to no noticeable difference past 30MBps random reads.  You haven't addressed my question though.

You suggested it had something to do with the SSD speed. If you know how SSD's work (or rather the programs that use them) then you'd understand diminishing returns.

Actually I didn't see your question. Apologies!

The thing is the system is not really out of resources. CPU when idle is between 1 and 5%, RAM is at 25% tops. I'm starting to think that maybe it's me Maybe I expect something which I cant reasonably expect from a 4 year old system. 

[JoostinOnline]

7 minutes ago, frozeNNN said:

SlowER SSD should outperform faster one?

After a certain point, no. Windows uses a finite amount of resources. While Windows 10 is particularly resource hungry on disk usage, it won't max out a high quality SSD. Think of it in the same terms as a CPU and an old game. If you run Solitaire on something really crappy like an old Pentium 2, it might have trouble. It will run at the same speed on a Core i3 and a Core i9 though.

 

That's why there isn't generally any performance boost when going from a high quality SATA SSD and a PCIe/NVMe one.

2 minutes ago, TheSparrow said:

Actually I didn't see your question. Apologies!

The thing is the system is not really out of resources. CPU when idle is between 1 and 5%, RAM is at 25% tops. I'm starting to think that maybe it's me Maybe I expect something which I cant reasonably expect from a 4 year old system. 

Do you have Superfetch disabled? It should be on.

[SidM]

Hey there, did you by any chance plug your ssd into the wrong sata port, make sure your ssd is connected to the faster 6Gbps sata port

[homeap5]

@TheSparrow: It's 840 evo with known problem - degradation over time (old written data is affected only). So unless you have no updated firmware and unless you don't make Performance Restoration using Samsung Magician - it's normal that your SSD becomes slower and slower. Use Samsung Magician to update firmware and performance restoration and your SSD will be good as new and your boot time improves a lot. No reinstall system is needed, you don't lose anything.

 

BTW guys - it's strange that nobody here know that solution. It's known problem with 840 EVO and TheSparrow gives you SSD model. Strange, because people always write that they need hardware details for finding a solution, and this time nobody even noticed that it's 840 evo.

 

One more thing - Samsung never fix that bug in 100%. Newest firmware just rewrite old data from time to time, so 840 EVO works good as long is used every day.

 

Because problem affects only oldest data on drive, all speed tests using Crystal Disk Mark or other software like that will be fine. The only program that can shows a problem is called SSD Read Speed Tester.

[TheSparrow]

5 hours ago, homeap5 said:

@TheSparrow: It's 840 evo with known problem - degradation over time (old written data is affected only). So unless you have no updated firmware and unless you don't make Performance Restoration using Samsung Magician - it's normal that your SSD becomes slower and slower. Use Samsung Magician to update firmware and performance restoration and your SSD will be good as new and your boot time improves a lot. No reinstall system is needed, you don't lose anything.

 

BTW guys - it's strange that nobody here know that solution. It's known problem with 840 EVO and TheSparrow gives you SSD model. Strange, because people always write that they need hardware details for finding a solution, and this time nobody even noticed that it's 840 evo.

 

One more thing - Samsung never fix that bug in 100%. Newest firmware just rewrite old data from time to time, so 840 EVO works good as long is used every day.

 

Because problem affects only oldest data on drive, all speed tests using Crystal Disk Mark or other software like that will be fine. The only program that can shows a problem is called SSD Read Speed Tester.

Hi,

 

Magician reports latest firmware and there is not option to restore performance. Only optimize performance which leads me to the built-in Windows drive optimization which runs every week. So now I'm out of options and maybe should just lower my expectations

 

Thanks anyways and have a nice day!!

[TheSparrow]

6 hours ago, SidM said:

Hey there, did you by any chance plug your ssd into the wrong sata port, make sure your ssd is connected to the faster 6Gbps sata port

It's connected to the correct port. Otherwise I would not be able to get those performance numbers I dont think. But thanks  

[TheSparrow]

6 hours ago, JoostinOnline said:

After a certain point, no. Windows uses a finite amount of resources. While Windows 10 is particularly resource hungry on disk usage, it won't max out a high quality SSD. Think of it in the same terms as a CPU and an old game. If you run Solitaire on something really crappy like an old Pentium 2, it might have trouble. It will run at the same speed on a Core i3 and a Core i9 though.

 

That's why there isn't generally any performance boost when going from a high quality SATA SSD and a PCIe/NVMe one.

Do you have Superfetch disabled? It should be on.

Superfetch is actually disabled but you get so many different opinions on that. Many say dont use it in combination with an SSD because it simply isnt necessary... Some say USE IT OR DIE! I really dont know anymore...

[homeap5]

What is your reported your SSD firmware version? Latest should be EXT0DB6Q. EXT0BB6Q or EXT0CB6Q are old.

About Magician - I remember that special version must be installed, otherwise program doesn't report new firmware.

In case you have earlier Firmware - here is link to Samsung's website with firmwares: link

You can extract firmware from that files (they are bootable iso files now; I remember when Samsung provide just firmware files, but not anymore).

 

About Superfetch - you may enable it or disable it, you'll see no difference (unless your drive is really slow).

 

[JoostinOnline]

12 hours ago, TheSparrow said:

Superfetch is actually disabled but you get so many different opinions on that. Many say dont use it in combination with an SSD because it simply isnt necessary... Some say USE IT OR DIE! I really dont know anymore...

When it first came out people didn't understand what it was. They saw it using lots of resources and decided it was bad. What it does is cache frequently used programs to the RAM so that it only has to use your slower drive once. Your first launch of a program will be regular speed, but the second will be faster with Superfetch enabled.

11 hours ago, homeap5 said:

What is your reported your SSD firmware version? Latest should be EXT0DB6Q. EXT0BB6Q or EXT0CB6Q are old.

About Magician - I remember that special version must be installed, otherwise program doesn't report new firmware.

In case you have earlier Firmware - here is link to Samsung's website with firmwares: link

You can extract firmware from that files (they are bootable iso files now; I remember when Samsung provide just firmware files, but not anymore).

 

About Superfetch - you may enable it or disable it, you'll see no difference (unless your drive is really slow).

 

I see an enormous difference with some applications. Also not everything runs from the boot drive.

[TheSparrow]

12 hours ago, homeap5 said:

What is your reported your SSD firmware version? Latest should be EXT0DB6Q. EXT0BB6Q or EXT0CB6Q are old.

About Magician - I remember that special version must be installed, otherwise program doesn't report new firmware.

In case you have earlier Firmware - here is link to Samsung's website with firmwares: link

You can extract firmware from that files (they are bootable iso files now; I remember when Samsung provide just firmware files, but not anymore).

 

About Superfetch - you may enable it or disable it, you'll see no difference (unless your drive is really slow).

 

Hi,

 

Firmware is most recent according to Magician and the Website.

Thank you for your trouble!

 

Cheers

[TheSparrow]

30 minutes ago, JoostinOnline said:

When it first came out people didn't understand what it was. They saw it using lots of resources and decided it was bad. What it does is cache frequently used programs to the RAM so that it only has to use your slower drive once. Your first launch of a program will be regular speed, but the second will be faster with Superfetch enabled.

I see an enormous difference with some applications. Also not everything runs from the boot drive.

Hi,

 

basically all my applications run from boot drive, only games don't.

 

Actually I'm witnessing performance gains due to the fact that I disabled indexing. It seems it needs a few days to get its full effect...!

I'm gonna wait a couple days to see if it gets even better and report back

 

Thank you all for your help!!

 

Have a great day