DSD Audio Headphones, and other questions

[Draeft-Lore]

Okay I am curious on what people recommend are the best headphones for music for no more than $300?  Is buying WAV files and importing them to my audio software of choice then exporting them as DSF files good/ok? If I can not get a WAV file would converting a FLAC to WAV then to DSF be ok?  I already have an idea for a portable media player that is 16GB internal storage, is expandable, and supports DSD also it can be used as USB DAC.  I am getting a pair of Audeze Mobius heaphones, for playing games, which says it supports DSD.  I have seen people with previews say the sound is very good, not the best. Would just getting the Mobius and using 200$ of the $300 to get a 400GB SandDisk microSDXC?  I have very sensitive hearing so no need to say well you won't ever notice the difference.  On slightly higher than safe setting on my samsung S7 I am able to hear out side the headset and be able to discern what the audio is.  I was thinking about getting some K7XX headphones with a new cable, or waiting to see if the K8XX comes out and what's it cost is when they are made from a poll on massdrop's site.  Recommendation on that?  Thanks for the help in advance everyone
 

[Volbet]

You sure can convert both FLAC and WAV to DSF, but it's a completely meaningless exercise. You're not going to gain anything from doing that, since just converting a FLAC file won't reintroduce anything nor will it take advantage of the 1-bit modulation of a DSF file.
That is not to mention the fact that most DSD capable DACs don't actually play the the DSF file, but rather they convert it to LPCM before the signal reaches the actual DAC.

 

In regards to headphones you seem pretty set in your way, so I won't make any further suggestions.

 

[GamerDude]

IF you want DSD, I'd suggest getting those that were mastered from SACD source, and be sure the playback is native DSD, not DSD converted to PCM. I don't think the K8XX is gonna make drop, but who knows?! I have the K812 and it's a great pair of can, smaller soundstage than the awesome HD800 but just as detailed sounding to me. The Mobius seems to be designed for gaming and movies, but is it good for just plain old school music listening?

[Max_Settings]

Don’t buy into the church of DSD. Best sub $300 music can will still probably go to the HD600. Unless you can get the 6XX for $200. I would check eBay for a pair of HD600 or HD650 they often can both be had for under $250.

[Draeft-Lore]

13 hours ago, Volbet said:

You sure can convert both FLAC and WAV to DSF, but it's a completely meaningless exercise. You're not going to gain anything from doing that, since just converting a FLAC file won't reintroduce anything nor will it take advantage of the 1-bit modulation of a DSF file.
That is not to mention the fact that most DSD capable DACs don't actually play the the DSF file, but rather they convert it to LPCM before the signal reaches the actual DAC.

 

In regards to headphones you seem pretty set in your way, so I won't make any further suggestions.

 

 

4 hours ago, Max_Settings said:

Don’t buy into the church of DSD. Best sub $300 music can will still probably go to the HD600. Unless you can get the 6XX for $200. I would check eBay for a pair of HD600 or HD650 they often can both be had for under $250.

 

4 hours ago, Max_Settings said:

Don’t buy into the church of DSD. Best sub $300 music can will still probably go to the HD600. Unless you can get the 6XX for $200. I would check eBay for a pair of HD600 or HD650 they often can both be had for under $250.

 

DSD response:

Ok I will just stick to WAV files, they sound better than FLACs anyways, to me, don't see much use going beyond that further for such a small selection of music in genres I couldn't care less about, minus classical I like classical.  Though library management is a bitch with WAV files.  I wish I could just have a music player that separated tracks by what folders they were in.  Because I use an (Artist)(Album)(track files) system so its all perfectly separated.

 

Mobius response:

they were originally being built with a big studio where audeze is located in mind.  The studio was using 5.1 and 7.1 surround sound mixing and they wanted something with head tracking built in. -from innerfidelity's interview video
Its good for music listening and you can turn off all the effects it has to use it as a pure planar magnetic headphones.-headfi's review/preview

 

HD600 response:
I don't like the look of the mesh on the HD6XX and it's counter parts, The AKG's look so much better in terms of their mesh, and I have seen reviews say that they have a fairly flat EQ, which is what I want in a headset.  I would even go as far as getting a Massdrop x Focal Elex headset for about $700 to $800 if I had the money for it in addition to getting the mobius, and the media player.

 

Thanks for the help and recommendations though guys.

[Max_Settings]

4 minutes ago, Draeft-Lore said:

 

 

 

DSD response:

Ok I will just stick to WAV files, they sound better than FLACs anyways, to me, don't see much use going beyond that further for such a small selection of music in genres I couldn't care less about, minus classical I like classical.  Though library management is a bitch with WAV files.  I wish I could just have a music player that separated tracks by what folders they were in.  Because I use an (Artist)(Album)(track files) system so its all perfectly separated.

 

Mobius response:

they were originally being built with a big studio where audeze is located in mind.  The studio was using 5.1 and 7.1 surround sound mixing and they wanted something with head tracking built in. -from innerfidelity's interview video
Its good for music listening and you can turn off all the effects it has to use it as a pure planar magnetic headphones.-headfi's review/preview

 

HD600 response:
I don't like the look of the mesh on the HD6XX and it's counter parts, The AKG's look so much better in terms of their mesh, and I have seen reviews say that they have a fairly flat EQ, which is what I want in a headset.  I would even go as far as getting a Massdrop x Focal Elex headset for about $700 to $800 if I had the money for it in addition to getting the mobius, and the media player.

 

Thanks for the help and recommendations though guys.

Elex is trash. There is much better for that kind of money. Go with some used HD800S or a set of DT1990s.

[Volbet]

2 minutes ago, Draeft-Lore said:

DSD response:

Ok I will just stick to WAV files, they sound better than FLACs anyways, to me, don't see much use going beyond that further for such a small selection of music in genres I couldn't care less about, minus classical I like classical.  Though library management is a bitch with WAV files.  I wish I could just have a music player that separated tracks by what folders they were in.  Because I use an (Artist)(Album)(track files) system so its all perfectly exasperated

I will just say that the end result of a WAV and a FLAC file is the exact same. Both are lossless and the only difference are the way they're compressed. 

WAV file (or rather the WAV container) is uncompressed LPCM while a FLAC will be outputted as a LPCM stream. 

So, if you have the same source they'll sound and measure identical.

 

Also, what library manager are you using? I have the same structure and it works just fine in Foobar2000.

The IDTag system on regular WAV files is complete shit, so that might be why. 

[Draeft-Lore]

16 minutes ago, Max_Settings said:

Elex is trash. There is much better for that kind of money. Go with some used HD800S or a set of DT1990s.

 

15 minutes ago, Volbet said:

I will just say that the end result of a WAV and a FLAC file is the exact same. Both are lossless and the only difference are the way they're compressed. 

WAV file (or rather the WAV container) is uncompressed LPCM while a FLAC will be outputted as a LPCM stream. 

So, if you have the same source they'll sound and measure identical.

 

Also, what library manager are you using? I have the same structure and it works just fine in Foobar2000.

The IDTag system on regular WAV files is complete shit, so that might be why. 

 

 

HD800S or DT1990s response

 

AKG K812 or K702 look better to me than the 2 Sennheiser's.  the K702's seem to have the best for my preferences and the K7XX are modified K702 drivers.  I think I will see how I like the mobius for music with effects turn off and I will see if I even need a second pair.

 

Foobar response:
Yeah I was just toying around with that and found it in album list, LOL. 

 

WAV verus FLAC:

IDK I just think through my current headset, which is a gaming one from razer and why I am even upgrading to all this,  WAV files sound slightly better maybe It's just in my head.  I download from sources like Bandcamp, and HDTracks which give WAV file downloads, and I am about to drop $5 on monstercat gold to spend a month downloading their entire catalouge as WAV files directly.  IDK if that mkes a diffrence or something.  I also have 3 CD's I have recently ripped music from still need to splice the tracks from the one giant file to the separate tracks with sound forge 12 steam edition.

[Max_Settings]

1 minute ago, Draeft-Lore said:

 

 

 

HD800S or DT1990s response

 

AKG K812 or K702 look better to me than the 2 Sennheiser's.  the K702's seem to have the best for my preferences and the K7XX are modified K702 drivers.  I think I will see how I like the mobius for music with effects turn off and I will see if I even need a second pair.

 

Foobar response:
Yeah I was just toying around with that and found it in album list, LOL. 

 

WAV verus FLAC:

IDK I just think through my current headset, which is a gaming one from razer and why I am even upgrading to all this,  WAV files sound slightly better maybe It's just in my head.  I download from sources like Bandcamp, and HDTracks which give WAV file downloads, and I am about to drop $5 on monstercat gold to spend a month downloading their entire catalouge as WAV files directly.  IDK if that mkes a diffrence or something.  I also have 3 CD's I have recently ripped music from still need to splice the tracks from the one giant file to the separate tracks with sound forge 12 steam edition.

Not a fan of the 812 or K7XX myself. I would look at the K612 or K712. But don't base your opinion on graphs, they don't tell you much.

[Draeft-Lore]

1 minute ago, Max_Settings said:

Not a fan of the 812 or K7XX myself. I would look at the K612 or K712. But don't base your opinion on graphs, they don't tell you much.

There is only 1 place I can look at headphones near me and it's best buy.  I have no store near with quality headphones. So graphs and youtube videos are all I have to for making a purchase

[Volbet]

1 hour ago, Draeft-Lore said:

WAV verus FLAC:

IDK I just think through my current headset, which is a gaming one from razer and why I am even upgrading to all this,  WAV files sound slightly better maybe It's just in my head.  I download from sources like Bandcamp, and HDTracks which give WAV file downloads, and I am about to drop $5 on monstercat gold to spend a month downloading their entire catalouge as WAV files directly.  IDK if that mkes a diffrence or something.  I also have 3 CD's I have recently ripped music from still need to splice the tracks from the one giant file to the separate tracks with sound forge 12 steam edition.

It is indeed all in your head. Again, the only difference is compression. They both measure the exact same. Nothing is lost going from WAV to FLAC and vice versa.

 

A couple of examples:

FLAC:

 

WAV

 

The spectrum is the same for the both of them. 

 

And one more to drive the point home.

 

FLAC


WAV

Again, no difference in the measurements.

 

 

Both tracks were downloaded from Bandcamp;

Track one: https://comoobreu.bandcamp.com/track/humanidade-em-extin-o

Track two: https://northernelectronics.bandcamp.com/track/herrensauna

While neither track will win me the favor of the Audiophile Council of Elders, they do serve their purpose well. 

 

The only tangible difference between an uncompressed WAV file and a FLAC file is that a FLAC file will require marginally more processing power to play. 

But unless your playback device is from 1993 that's of no concern.

 

Lastly, you don't have to rip your CDs as an image. If you want to do uncompressed individual tracks that's also doable. 

Just use EAC and rip your CDs with the uncompressed option. It'll even gather all the metadata for you.

[GamerDude]

5 hours ago, Draeft-Lore said:

 

 

 

DSD response:

Ok I will just stick to WAV files, they sound better than FLACs anyways, to me, don't see much use going beyond that further for such a small selection of music in genres I couldn't care less about, minus classical I like classical.  Though library management is a bitch with WAV files.  I wish I could just have a music player that separated tracks by what folders they were in.  Because I use an (Artist)(Album)(track files) system so its all perfectly separated.

Not a DSD hoe not am I pushing it, it's just that.....well, with the audio gears I have, I do hear something special with my DSD64's which were mastered from SACD source. I won't recommend it to anyone who do not have the equipment to play native DSD though, and certainly not on lower end head gear. Besides, DSD chews up a truckload of storage space, so huge storage capacity is a must. On my phones, other than Spotify, I'd use FLAC or WAV for music, DSD takes up too much space, and I'd only play DSD files on my Fiio X3 II + JDS Labs C5 or my Tube Amp BL-1 when I'm on the go. Or, to spare myself the effort of lugging around a portable stack, I'd use my HiFiMan HM901s.

 

As for the HD800 vs K812, to me, the K812 is better at music that is more intimate. That is, it's great for Jazz pieces where you don't require a wide soundstage (like the HD800 , which thrive at music requiring a wide soundstage, like orchestral pieces). The K812 is also better (IMO) for Pop pieces because it has a slightly better bass and due to its not having as wide a soundstage as the HD800, it doesn't spread out the instruments or diffuse the sound like the HD800 does. It's pretty costly, like the HD800, and like Max_Setting had suggested, try looking at the K612 or K712.

 

 

[Volbet]

11 hours ago, GamerDude said:

Not a DSD hoe not am I pushing it, it's just that.....well, with the audio gears I have, I do hear something special with my DSD64's which were mastered from SACD source. I won't recommend it to anyone who do not have the equipment to play native DSD though, and certainly not on lower end head gear. Besides, DSD chews up a truckload of storage space, so huge storage capacity is a must. On my phones, other than Spotify, I'd use FLAC or WAV for music, DSD takes up too much space, and I'd only play DSD files on my Fiio X3 II + JDS Labs C5 or my Tube Amp BL-1 when I'm on the go. Or, to spare myself the effort of lugging around a portable stack, I'd use my HiFiMan HM901s.

The thing you might be is probably the master. Most SACD (and by extension, DSF) masters are much better than their CD counterparts. SACD were pretty much marketer towards audiophiles, who can definitely be a brutal market.

For example, the SACD masters for most of the Pink Floyd stuff is the same as the ones used on the early CD version (apart from the SACD version of Dark Side of the Moon for some reason).

 

There's also the fact that most of the native DSD stuff was (and still is) of very high quality.

I remember that it was a royal pain tracking down native DSD equipment for my SACD setup.

 

Honestly, I just find the whole SACD/DSF thing a bit weird. I know it's convenient, but since the main purpose of the format is to mimic an analog waveform in a digital way, then it just seems more sensible to cut out the digital middleman. Just buy some 7 1/2"/second reel-to-reel recording. Most of the stuff available on DSF is also the stuff available on reel-to-reel tape.