New spectre bugs, buy intel or wait it out?

[boiboi69]

I've only just heard of this new spectre bugs that affected intel and have alrdy planned for an i7 8700 build. should i wait it out or just buy them chips?

[Majestic]

You shouldn't buy it regardless of the bugs. Ryzen+ is just better. The 2700 for the same price gets you 2 additional cores and 4 threads. They are now discovering that the memory timings on the Ryzen motherboards are too loose, watch for stories regarding this on Gamers Nexus, Level1Techs and Hardware Unboxed.

[R3ep3r]

8 minutes ago, boiboi69 said:

I've only just heard of this new spectre bugs that affected intel and have alrdy planned for an i7 8700 build. should i wait it out or just buy them chips?

Well as @Majestic said, even Ryzen has some issues regarding the memory timings. It's not a big deal though. When it comes to performance, I7 offers a better single core performance whilst ryzen offers better multi-core performance. Now it all depends on what are you planning to do with your build and it also depends on the manufacturers if they decide to do something about this bug. Personally I've used CPUs from both manufacturers(AMD and Intel) and each CPU was performing good enough so I am not a fan boy of intel or amd. If you need a PC ASAP just go with the one you think it suits you the best. The rest of things are just speculations. 

PS: Atm with a 8600k at 4.5ghz I didn't notice any issues at all.

[Majestic]

4 minutes ago, R3ep3r said:

I7 offers a better single core performance whilst ryzen offers better multi-core performance.

hmm no it's appearing from the results coming out with fixed timings that the IPC of Ryzen is better in games, and it has extra cores.

[R3ep3r]

Just now, Majestic said:

hmm no it's appearing from the results coming out with fixed timings that the IPC of Ryzen is better in games, and it has extra cores.

That might be the first time when AMD really outperforms an Intel CPU and that's impressive! 

[CapitalistVN]

Just now, R3ep3r said:

That might be the first time when AMD really outperforms an Intel CPU and that's impressive! 

AMD once got better CPUs with their K7 (Athlon) chips in 1999, and that's the first 1Ghz chips in the history

[GoldenLag]

1 minute ago, R3ep3r said:

That might be the first time when AMD really outperforms an Intel CPU and that's impressive! 

Very impressive indeed. Though i have heard there are some issues with Nvidia cards not working optimally with AMD atm. Though i think it is only in a select few titles under one of the APIs. (Dont rememver which one) not that it matters as it will probably have been resolved or is going to be resolved. The difference was negilible either way. 

 

Personally if you are going with an 8700 and you are certainly not going to overclock. The 2700 comes with a better cooler either way and ive heard mixed resoults when from i 8600 on stock intel heatsink. And hey. 4 extra threads

 

Spectre issues wont affect the majority of people either way. There isnt a reason to wait

[manikyath]

10 minutes ago, Majestic said:

hmm no it's appearing from the results coming out with fixed timings that the IPC of Ryzen is better in games, and it has extra cores.

not that these days it *really* matters anyways, because we're already in the ballpark where you'd need >144Hz displays to make it matter.

[Majestic]

Just now, manikyath said:

not that these days it *really* matters anyways, because we're already in the ballpark where you'd need >144Hz displays to make it matter.

Depends on the game, plenty of games that give a CPU a workout. That said, having comparable IPC (at the least), but extra threads, makes it the better deal regardless.

[manikyath]

1 minute ago, Majestic said:

Depends on the game, plenty of games that give a CPU a workout. That said, having comparable IPC (at the least), but extra threads, makes it the better deal regardless.

most "cpu workout" games these days either dont do "better enough" with slight single core gains, or are very well multithreaded.

[LAwLz]

Before anyone can make you a proper recommendation you need to answer these things:

1) What is your budget.

2) If you do not live in the US, what store are you going to order from and what do the prices look like there?

3) What programs are you going to primarily run?

 

 

As for the new spectre bugs, we do not know what the impact will be like yet, nor do we know what processors are affected. AMD might be affected too, maybe the performance impact is next to none... We don't know yet.

 

 

 

15 minutes ago, R3ep3r said:

Personally I've used CPUs from both manufacturers(AMD and Intel) and each CPU was performing good enough so I am not a fan boy of intel or amd.

Just now, manikyath said:

not that these days it *really* matters anyways, because we're already in the ballpark where you'd need >144Hz displays to make it matter.

"It's good enough" is not an excuse for picking an inferior product though.

You should always pick the product that makes the most sense from strictly objective measurements. Even if there is only a 1% performance difference (assuming the exact same price and features of course) it doesn't make sense to give money to the company producing the inferior product.

[manikyath]

1 minute ago, LAwLz said:

"It's good enough" is not an excuse for picking an inferior product though.

You should always pick the product that makes the most sense from strictly objective measurements. Even if there is only a 1% performance difference (assuming the exact same price and features of course) it doesn't make sense to give money to the company producing the inferior product.

the thing is that with the latest round of AMD products its no longer inferior, and price is a pretty big metric too.

[boiboi69]

41 minutes ago, Majestic said:

Depends on the game, plenty of games that give a CPU a workout. That said, having comparable IPC (at the least), but extra threads, makes it the better deal regardless.

i only play games and games are only starting to use 6 cores. the extra cores and threads are not needed for me currently.

[Majestic]

Just now, boiboi69 said:

i only play games and games are only starting to use 6 cores. the extra cores and threads are not needed for me currently.

So what, it's the same in all the other aspects. You would literally pay more for less. 

[boiboi69]

41 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Before anyone can make you a proper recommendation you need to answer these things:

1) What is your budget.

2) If you do not live in the US, what store are you going to order from and what do the prices look like there?

3) What programs are you going to primarily run?

 

i covered in previous thread but not much replies...

anyway here's the build.

1. Budget & Location

I am from Singapore and budget is SGD$1600-1800.

2. Aim

mainly gaminng. i play R6, Pubg, Rising Storm 2, Rust, insurgency at 1440p 144hz low/medium quality.

3. Monitors

currently i have one 2560x1440p 144hz monitor

4. Peripherals

i have keyboard, mice and headphones. Just need a win 10.

5. Why are you upgrading?

my old pc cant be upgraded as the sata ports cannot detect any ssd or causes freezing, Currently only one sata port is working. my mobo is out of warranty and i'm surviving on a 120Gb ssd  .

 

My future build is as follows.

cpu + mobo : I7 8700 + Asus Tuf B360 pro gaming wifi. (i really need the wireless wifi)

Air cooler: Cryorig H7

Ram: corsair veng. 2666mhz 2x8Gb

gpu: dont need i alrdy have a GTX 1070

Storage: samsung 860 evo 500Gb + Toshiba 7200rpm 1Tb

Psu:seasonic focus plus 650fx

Case: Fractal design define C

OS: windows 10

 

[LAwLz]

3 hours ago, manikyath said:

the thing is that with the latest round of AMD products its no longer inferior

I never said they were.

3 hours ago, manikyath said:

and price is a pretty big metric too.

That's why I said "assuming exactly the same price and features".

 

What I was saying is that it doesn't make sense to bring up "well it's good enough" when talking about something you can actually bring down to solid, objective numbers.

You can't justify buying a product with "it's good enough" if you can get a better product for the same or lower price. 

I don't think that is what you intended with your original post, but it had that tone to it (if you ask me).

 

 

2 hours ago, boiboi69 said:

i covered in previous thread but not much replies...

anyway here's the build.

1. Budget & Location

I am from Singapore and budget is SGD$1600-1800.

How much does the 8700 cost compared to the AMD 2700?

The 8700 will perform slightly better in most cases, but it can not be overclocked, unlike the 2700 which can. Also, please note that the benchmarks I linked are for the 8700K, but there is only a ~100MHz difference between the K and non-K model so it doesn't matter that much for comparing the two.

Motherboard features and prices can vary quite a bit too, so look that up as well.

I wouldn't really factor in the new spectre bugs when ordering a CPU. It's too early to tell how large the impact is and which processors are affected. On top of that, since it's such a new way of attacking there will probably be a few more attacks discovered in the coming months or years.

[boiboi69]

1 hour ago, LAwLz said:

I never said they were.

That's why I said "assuming exactly the same price and features".

 

What I was saying is that it doesn't make sense to bring up "well it's good enough" when talking about something you can actually bring down to solid, objective numbers.

You can't justify buying a product with "it's good enough" if you can get a better product for the same or lower price. 

I don't think that is what you intended with your original post, but it had that tone to it (if you ask me).

 

 

How much does the 8700 cost compared to the AMD 2700?

The 8700 will perform slightly better in most cases, but it can not be overclocked, unlike the 2700 which can. Also, please note that the benchmarks I linked are for the 8700K, but there is only a ~100MHz difference between the K and non-K model so it doesn't matter that much for comparing the two.

Motherboard features and prices can vary quite a bit too, so look that up as well.

I wouldn't really factor in the new spectre bugs when ordering a CPU. It's too early to tell how large the impact is and which processors are affected. On top of that, since it's such a new way of attacking there will probably be a few more attacks discovered in the coming months or years.

R7 2700x is $15 more than i7 8700

[LAwLz]

6 minutes ago, boiboi69 said:

R7 2700x is $15 more than i7 8700

What about the non-X version?

It's the same chip, just with lower stock speeds (can easily be tweaked) and a less powerful cooler.

[brob]

6 hours ago, boiboi69 said:

I've only just heard of this new spectre bugs that affected intel and have alrdy planned for an i7 8700 build. should i wait it out or just buy them chips?

Gaming enthusiasts and other consumer users should not even bother to worry about Spectre. This vulnerability is read only and requires a customized attack. It is really doubtful that any of us have data of sufficient value on our systems to justify an expensive directed attack.

 

[boiboi69]

2 hours ago, LAwLz said:

What about the non-X version?

It's the same chip, just with lower stock speeds (can easily be tweaked) and a less powerful cooler.

R7 2700 IS $12 more than i7 8700

Edit: i'm not that interested in overclocking as currently there isnt a huge jump in performance boost in oc-ing.

[Jtalk4456]

As referenced in the video below, spectre and meltdown are unlikely to go away with new hardware. With the only way to remove the risk being making the processors significantly suffer in performance, it is unlikely they will make that fix. Your best bet is to get the best processor for what you are doing and focus on good browsing practices and security software