Windows 10 Redstone 5 Gets Telephony APIs hinting at Surface Phone

[TetraSky]

It could be a surface phone... Or it could just be for Windows devices(laptops/tablets) that can take a SIM card for cellular DATA.

All you'd need is a wireless headset and suddenly you no longer need to carry another device to make phone calls.

[leadeater]

9 hours ago, RorzNZ said:

Windows Phones are so cheap tbh. Those nokias were built pretty well and cheap af. 

Still using my Nokia 635, that one is actually rather tough unlike the 520 that breaks if you almost drop it.

[LAwLz]

31 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

The thing is, Microsoft has been pumping patents after patents after patents non stop of technology related specifically at dual screen foldable smart phone, including ideas to solve the problem with the rear camera, solve the lack of tracking of touch sensor between the 2 displays, and other problems and challenges of such device. I have not done any counts, but it feels like easy once per month minimum. Last time Microsoft did something like this, we ended up with the introduction of the Surface.

Again, you're seeing patterns where there might be none.

 

Microsoft applies for thousands upon thousands of patents every single year. They have been granted something close to 25,000 patents since 2010.

It's no surprise that out of those 25,000 patents, a few of them could potentially be used in the surface phone. A lot of them could probably be applied to a smart toilet too, but that doesn't mean Microsoft have plans to release a Surface toilet, right?

[Doobeedoo]

Never really though they abandoned Surface Phone though. Just postponed it per say. They own the OS so they have potential there and why not make it happen. So yeah hopefully OS and ecosystem will be more ready by that time. 

[GoodBytes]

55 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Again, you're seeing patterns where there might be none.

 

Microsoft applies for thousands upon thousands of patents every single year. They have been granted something close to 25,000 patents since 2010.

It's no surprise that out of those 25,000 patents, a few of them could potentially be used in the surface phone. A lot of them could probably be applied to a smart toilet too, but that doesn't mean Microsoft have plans to release a Surface toilet, right?

A number of leaks indicates that Microsoft is indeed working/experimenting on a convertible phone device, reinforced by the Microsoft Andromeda project leaks.

Microsoft is actively working on CShell to create this adaptable interface for Windows 10 replacing Shell32, which would have no purpose today. Tablet mode is a thing already in Windows 10. So why put so much energy. All this is reinforced by Windows Polaris project, which is turning Windows 10 into components that can be added or removed, with a goal to unify Windows 10 based devices into 1. So far, only the core layers of Windows 10 is shared between Windows 10, Windows 10 Mobile, and XBox One. Microsoft wants 1x OS for everything. So the XBox One version would essentially be Windows 10, without Telephony, Hyper-V, and just about anything not related to the purpose of the game console, and have the XBox One GUI. Windows 10 powered phones might be a thing and depending on the specs, the manufacture can choose to add or not Win32 emulation mode, for example. Windows 10 desktop and laptop without LTE might not need Telephony support, so OEMs can choose to no have it, for instance. It adds modularity to the OS. I highly doubt that Microsoft is going to alllll that trouble, just to have a setup screen where you can pick what you want or don't from Windows 10 install to please the 5 power users that cares.

 

In other words, I am not saying that there will be a 'Surface Phone'. all I am saying is that there is A LOT of stuff that indicates that may be case.

[Trixanity]

27 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

All this is reinforced by Windows Polaris project, which is turning Windows 10 into components that can be added or removed

Isn't this kinda like... Linux?

[LAwLz]

2 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

In other words, I am not saying that there will be a 'Surface Phone'. all I am saying is that there is A LOT of stuff that indicates that may be case.

Yeah, but the same has been said for several years now. I can probably find 15 threads on this forum where people say a Surface phone is being worked on.

Again, I could probably find several indicators that Microsoft are working on a Surface toilet if I looked hard enough. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Trixanity said:

Isn't this kinda like... Linux?

Yes, but my guess is that it will end up half-assed. Windows is terribly designed on a fundamental level, and doing things like removing the wallpaper and regedit won't solve that.

[GoldenLag]

If its a surface phone i bloody hope it runs android. Maybe dual-boot into win 10. You could then dongle it into a desktop pc.  

[GoodBytes]

2 hours ago, GoldenLag said:

If its a surface phone i bloody hope it runs android. Maybe dual-boot into win 10. You could then dongle it into a desktop pc.  

That is not the point/target of Surface brand. Surface is all about giving you the best Windows experience, and also a convertible device (with the exception of the Surface Laptop, which I don't see them doing a yearly update, if any more updates unless it sold well, or have different ideas that would make the device better.)

 

Based on leaks and sources from news sites from within Microsoft, the Surface Phone is targeted at the enterprise market, and even the suggestions of still carrying your phone (although that was said before Windows 10 has telephony APIs, which could suggest that this will change). The focus of the device will be the same as with the introduction of the Surface Pro. For work/productivity, not fun. It won't have, nor MS cares about: Snapchat, Google series of apps, Mario run, etc. It wants a phone that runs Windows 10, for work. Company can install whatever program it wants for its employees to use. The device converts from a phone to a tablet, where the interface will adapt.

 

It doesn't aim to be an iPhone where you need a PC. So no "dongle with your PC". In fact Windows Mobile 10 devices dedicated devices, like your PC. You want to wipe and clean install your phone? you can do it from your phone. No separate software that you need to install like with Apple and Blackberry of old.

 

Now if you want to install an Android emulator on it, then go ahead. But if you are an early adopter, and assuming it will even have Win32 support enabled all the time, and not only in tablet mode or even docked, you'll emulate x86 to emulate ARM to emulate Android, to run on an ARM based device.... let alone runny on a heavy OS... I think you'll be enjoying a hot phone, with few hours of battery life, assuming even that (lowering 2 screens is certainly taxing already), and PowerPoint presentation FPS at running whatever Android app, let alone game.

[LAwLz]

16 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

the Surface Phone is targeted at the enterprise market

I see the phrase "targeted at the enterprise market" thrown around a lot regarding Windows devices, but I have never gotten a clear answer.

In what way is for example the Surface tablet or supposedly the Surface Phone specifically targeting the enterprise market? Remember, "it can't run Snapchat" is not a reason why it is targeting the enterprise market. It's a reason why it is not appealing to the consumer market.

[Sniperfox47]

Hasn't the plan with the discontinuation of Windows Phone and the adaptable shell interface been to roll the features of Windows 10 Phone and Windows 10 Holographic into a single componented build of Windows that can be scaled up and down as needed for different devices?

 

Why is everyone shouting "Surface Phone! Surface Phone!"? Isn't this more about allowing enterprise device developers like HP with their Elite X3 to have the full Windows Platform as an option for development moving forward? Either with Windows 10 S-mode on ARM or "full" Windows 10 on ARM as a platform?

 

I thought they had indicated, in their "future of Windows" announcement where they said UWP isn't dead and is very much the future, that this was the plan all along? I thought they were just trying to trim the development of the like 5 (normal, Mobile, Holographic, XBox, and IoT) different versions of Windows and consolidate into one version of OneCore that can run on any kind of device.

[AlTech]

2 hours ago, LAwLz said:

I see the phrase "targeted at the enterprise market" thrown around a lot regarding Windows devices, but I have never gotten a clear answer.

In what way is for example the Surface tablet or supposedly the Surface Phone specifically targeting the enterprise market? Remember, "it can't run Snapchat" is not a reason why it is targeting the enterprise market. It's a reason why it is not appealing to the consumer market.

Surface Pro and Surface Book were given the DODs blessing for use in secure environments or something or other. So there's that.

 

For the alleged Surface Phone specifically, the ability to run Win32 apps on an ARM64 phone when connected to a dock is useful. Stylus support on the phone could also be useful for the enterprise.

[AlTech]

On 28/04/2018 at 1:58 PM, leadeater said:

Still using my Nokia 635, that one is actually rather tough unlike the 520 that breaks if you almost drop it.

Lol. It's a shame that the bootloader is locked down by SecureBoot and stuff and that ROM makers can't make ROMs for lumias .

 

If you're wondering why they can't, they'd need access to proprietary blobs like Qualcomm Drivers and Microsoft firmware.

[mr cheese]

Windows Phone Master Race

 

/s

[LAwLz]

25 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

Surface Pro and Surface Book were given the DODs blessing for use in secure environments or something or other. So there's that.

Yeah, but so are several other devices. Hell, even my phone (Galaxy S7) is on the DISA APL.

I don't see why being on that list makes it "targeted at enterprise" though.

 

 

37 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

For the alleged Surface Phone specifically, the ability to run Win32 apps on an ARM64 phone when connected to a dock is useful. Stylus support on the phone could also be useful for the enterprise.

How is that useful exactly? People will still want laptops for working on the go and for that they want something with a larger screen, like a 12" laptop.

I still don't see how that feature is specifically targeting enterprise either. If anything, that seems more like a consumer feature.

How is a stylus specifically good for enterprise customers? Again, seems like a consumer focused feature to me.

[AlTech]

Just now, LAwLz said:

Yeah, but so are several other devices. Hell, even my phone (Galaxy S7) is on the DISA APL.

I don't see why being on that list makes it "targeted at enterprise" though.

 

 

How is that useful exactly? People will still want laptops for working on the go and for that they want something with a larger screen, like a 12" laptop.

I still don't see how that feature is specifically targeting enterprise either. If anything, that seems more like a consumer feature.

How is a stylus specifically good for enterprise customers? Again, seems like a consumer focused feature to me.

Idk. Samsung sells Galaxy Note 8s to the Enterprise with only slight modifications to differentiate it from the consumer version and that seems to be going ok for them.

 

Having 2 displays on a phone could be useful in the enterprise although the same could be said regarding consumer devices.

[LAwLz]

40 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

Idk. Samsung sells Galaxy Note 8s to the Enterprise with only slight modifications to differentiate it from the consumer version and that seems to be going ok for them.

 

Having 2 displays on a phone could be useful in the enterprise although the same could be said regarding consumer devices.

All the recent Samsung Galaxy S and Note devices are on the approved list, but does that make them enterprise focused?

This is what I meant. It is easy to say something is enterprise focused and then just mention some feature that some enterprise might find useful, but that is not the same as an enterprise focused product. A phone having a stylus does not make it enterprise focused. By that logic an etch a sketch could be argued that it's enterprise focused.

 

If you want an example of something I think is an "enterprise focused" product look no further than the Catalyst switch series. That's an enterprise focused product. It has a lot of features that the average Joe could not care less about like support for multiple types of spanning tree, security features like root guard and DHCP snooping, as well as just overall good things like VLANs which all companies should use to some extent. No average Joe would ever buy a Catalyst switch because it is not meant for home use. It caters to specific enterprise needs in a way consumer devices don't.

[AlTech]

23 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

All the recent Samsung Galaxy S and Note devices are on the approved list, but does that make them enterprise focused?

I wasn't saying that at all. I was saying that Samsung has a specific Enterprise version of the Galaxy Note 8 they sell to companies. And they're probably selling well.

[leadeater]

2 hours ago, AluminiumTech said:

Lol. It's a shame that the bootloader is locked down by SecureBoot and stuff and that ROM makers can't make ROMs for lumias .

 

If you're wondering why they can't, they'd need access to proprietary blobs like Qualcomm Drivers and Microsoft firmware.

That's not ever something I wanted for my Windows Phone.

[divito]

On 27/04/2018 at 11:06 PM, RorzNZ said:

I've owned Windows Mobile phones before I switched to an Android, then an iPhone. I miss the Windows Mobile a lot more than the Android :'(

 

Really excellence fluid interface. Android always felt laggy even when I had a good device, and I was very impressed by the iPod Touch I had so I switched. 

That's how I feel about BB10. If only they truly got around the app gap, it was a much superior OS.

[Drak3]

6 hours ago, LAwLz said:

In what way is for example the Surface tablet or supposedly the Surface Phone specifically targeting the enterprise market?

There's nothing about the Surface that Microsoft threw in for the enterprise market, so no examples. The only way any enterprise purchasers would ever be interested in these products is if their company uses devices like Wacom Cintiq.

 

Microsoft knows this.

2 hours ago, AluminiumTech said:

Samsung sells Galaxy Note 8s to the Enterprise with only slight modifications to differentiate it from the consumer version and that seems to be going ok for them.

There is literally no differentiation between an unlocked Note 8 direct from Samsung and an "Enterprise" Note 8. Every advertised feature and advantage of one, is on both.

[Nowak]

 

I'm just gonna respond to any and all Surface Phone threads with this image, if you guys don't mind. But, lemme tell ya, I fell for that trap twice before (HTC Windows Phone 8X for WP8, Nokia Lumia Icon for WP8.1) and I am not falling for it again.

[GoodBytes]

43 minutes ago, divito said:

That's how I feel about BB10. If only they truly got around the app gap, it was a much superior OS.

I agree. Android only win the war because most of the devices that was powered by the OS was dirt cheap, and everyone wanted an affordable iPhone. The result was a a phone with a shit interface that a 12 year old kid can probably do a better job, and a choppy mess. RIM/Blackberry, like Apple, and Microsoft all wanted to control the device experience to ensure a great experience.

[Drak3]

5 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

The result was a a phone with a shit interface that a 12 year old kid can probably do a better job

Android has never been that bad.

[Nowak]

13 hours ago, Drak3 said:

Android has never been that bad.

You've obviously never seen Android 1.x or 2.x.