1950x or 7940x for 3d rendering and editing/ bread and butter

[pKc]

Hello, folks n Linus (if you ever read),

Let me start by saying that the build I am making is completely for professional bread and butter purpose. Thus it's not a fanboy or fangirl topic. Back 2017 we had 2 new HEDTs platforms.

Price: intel wise was on the roof but now things have calmed down a bit. AMD too have some discounts going on right now. I am switching to a newer build from i7 6700k to either 7940x or 1950x, though this topic has been discussed lots of times, Thanks if you put your views again for me.

 

Price wise: Indian price converted to USD, price inclusive of taxes.

General Components:

Corsair V 3000 Mhz Ram 64gb: 872 USD

1070 ti : 670 usd

Fractal R6 TG: 197 usd

Total : 1739 USD

 

Intel Option:

Asus Prime x299a: 416 Usd

7940x: 1550 Usd

Total: 2000 Usd

 

AMD option:

Asus Prime x399 eatx: 416 usd

1950x: 1230 usd

Total: 1646 USD

Delta: ~19% Intel > AMD

 

Price to performance equation:

Vray: 7940x is 3% faster than 1950x (negligible, but for a 10-hour render it is almost 18 minutes. Food for thought? Single digit numbers are worthless for comparison bcoz it may differ system to system)

Source: https://benchmark.chaosgroup.com/cpu?search_string=1950

https://benchmark.chaosgroup.com/cpu?search_string=7940

 

Pugetsystems: As per pudget the difference is almost 32 %. 

 

Adobe Premiere: 

I am not sure which is better for me, stability will be the most important factor. Referring to pugetsystem recommendations. Also, read that TR has some issues with Adobe Products. Yes, architecture not optimised but how can I help? Freinds please put your views. Stability over performance. Price anyways its heading skywards.

 

Photoshop: Threadripper is definitely overall slower than Skylake-X for Photoshop. If at all it matters in 10 to 15%

 

 

Lumion: Needs a graphics card to render? I have selected a budget 1070 8gb. Best budget card price to performance.

 

Unreal:  Here is a para from pugetsystems. Never got the opportunity to try myself. Help anybody working in Unreal.

"For those that need the best possible performance for heavily threaded tasks like building lighting and compiling the engine from source, we offer a number of high core count CPUs depending on both your budget and the performance you need for these tasks. The Core i9 7900X is roughly 10% faster than the Core i7 7820X for tasks like light baking and compiling while the Core i9 7940X, Core i9 7960X, and Core i9 7980XE will be even faster. Note that these CPUs tend to be slightly slower for most other tasks, however, so we typically only recommend on of these high core count CPUs for users that spend a significant amount of time building lighting or compiling."

 

 

Corona: Again a single digit performance factor between 1950x and 7940x.

https://corona-renderer.com/benchmark/cpu/1950x/all

https://corona-renderer.com/benchmark/cpu/7940x/all

.

• I started with Pentium 4 back in the year 2000. Used it quite a lot and for almost 6 years. It stood strong with me. It went some rough rides across the country, I took in younger years. Travelled almost 2.5k kms with a bulky CRT :). I feel sad don't have any pic of my P4. Then switched to AMD phenom 1090 black. wow, six cores in the year 2010. Here are some images if you care.(Attached)

 

I sold my Phenom and Asus mobo to a fanboy. Happily took home with love and respect.

 

Coming to the today year 2018: I am confused with 7940x or 1950x.

Here are my observations:

1950x

1. Superb performance for Multithreaded programs.

2. Very fewer mobo options.(+- 6?)

3. Memory problems, Courtesy: forums

4. Ideal power draws more than Intel counterparts. Important because not all the time I will be rendering.

5. Lower Single thread performance. The feeling of having a fast computer. 

6. Future upgradeability options seem to be attractive. What TR 2 will bring is still a surprise. If it's just an incremental upgrade then 10 to 15% performance enhancement. Again AMD surprises all. 32 core 64 threads future, I don't believe that yet as ideal power draw will be massive and clock speed will go down to keep that in check, typical server chip.

 

7940x

1. Similar multi-threaded performance compared to 1950x but almost 22% more expensive. (Machine hours do counts, consists of 20 to 25% of my workload. Render and edit final presentation for the client)

2. No compromise on single thread performance. Very important as my 60 to 70% of work times (Man hours) programs need single thread performance. Read viewport navigation and modelling. I don't want to downgrade from an i7 6700k viewpoint on single thread performance. (The client pays for man hours)

3. Though my budget gets Asus Prime, but lots of options available. Inspires confidence.

4. Choosing memory options easy, your thought?

5. I can find a cooler made for i9. Peace of Mind. Does it effect anyways compared to 1950x CPU coolers? mental block. Noctua TR4 availability in India questionable.

6. VRM problems? I won't overclock neither I am going to install any overclocking utility. Anyways my computer runs more than 16 hours a day. Overclocking will underutilize the CPU power under light loads that 60% to 70% of my workload.

 

3rd Option:

I keep the i7 6700k with 32gigs ram for all the modelling and texturing and editing job. Make a 1950x rendering slave.

 

Challenges: (Mostly additional cost)

1. NAS drive required for file sharing.

2. Gigabit switch to facilitate the high-speed file transfer.

3. Power draw from the wall when both systems are on.

4. Will lose the interactive test renders of a high-end system as I have to send back and forth the file for render. or can use the slave workstation as distributed renderer but in that case, power draw from the wall will be higher. Both systems full on high on usage.

5. Space to accommodate the setup.

6. Power backup will have to be updated too.

 

Share your views on 7940x, 1950x or 3rd option of client-server sought of setup. The main point of your suggestion is that I don't want to go back in the memory lane after buying the CPU. It's like the girl you loved in college and never proposed. Now after marriage every now and then you think about her.

 

 

[Archon42]

Not sure if this will be helpful to you or not, but I have an acquaintance (photographer whose home I went to to buy used HDDs) who bought a TR system for work. His main complaints:

1) His 1950x was slower than his i7 5960x for Adobe; he was really frustrated with optimization.

2) He had to overclock to reach 2900 speed on memory and was frustrated at the lack of support for 128GB at 3200 speeds.

Sorry I cannot provide numbers and that this is merely anecdotal. :-(
As a fellow 1950x owner I could relate somewhat, but for my needs and the sale I got mine on, it was worth it (plus I don't Adobe).

I see you have a preference for air coolers; Noctua has a bunch that may suit your needs. I would recommend a water cooler though for TR4, given the long render times you specified; I use the Cryorig A80 on my 1950x and it provides almost the same performance as that of the photographers's Enermax TR4 AIO with the added benefit of cooling surrounding parts.

All said and done, if your work is heavily Adobe dependent, get Intel imho. People kept talking about optimization coming soon for AMD's last generation and the one before... never happened afaik. :-(

[pKc]

Thanks, mate for the info.

1. Regarding air coolers, I believe none of the youtube testers uses an overnight (12hr) burn in to measure or test AIO's results. So, i was a bit sceptic about the results. As I will render overnight an air cooler seems good as of now. Air coolers have proven over the years.

 

But people are recommending AIOs nowadays. Hopefully will get one this time. Maybe a thick 240 rad AIO. Enermax and Cryorig are not available in India. Corsair, Noctua, Coolermaster and Nzxt models only. So I am trying to get a Corsair Hydro 115i maybe. Let's see. After the processor selection, I will nail an AIO. 

 

Thanks for stopping by.

[Archon42]

2 minutes ago, pKc said:

1. Regarding air coolers, I believe none of the youtube testers uses an overnight (12hr) burn in to measure or test AIO's results. So, i was a bit sceptic about the results. As I will render overnight an air cooler seems good as of now. Air coolers have proven over the years.

 

You are entirely correct about long hours of full throttle usage bringing the performance difference between air and AIOs on par (watch this if you haven't already). The problem with air coolers is clearance with RAM, clearance with the top PCIe x16 socket on 7 slot ATX/E-ATX motherboards, and the height of the cooler blocking the side panel on some cases from closing. Plus on some motherboard models you will see extra height on the VRM heatsink which may interfere as well. I am also ignoring the fact that most air coolers are a REAL PAIN to install. An AIO helps with all of that. The risk of leak is rare but real and one I choose to take given the compatibility constraints I faced and the coolers available here.

[Hw87634]

If I understood well we discuss about "3%"?

$ 354 (2000 -1646) for 3% can be a little too much. 

the choice I made for my system in late 2017 was: 7960x at € 1,450 ($1,779) or a 1950x for € 837 (1,227 $) for only a 10%. I choosed 1950x.

unfortunately I've to confirm the poor memory support, I still run at 2666, not 3000. 

[pKc]

Thanks for the video reference. All points covered. If I get a low profile RAM, hard to get at higher clock speeds Then I will stick to air cooler. Never failed me. Plug and play no maintenance. The last I had was cooler master hyper 212 still running, cooling a Phenom 1090 Black for 8 years straight. Beat that. 

 

Yes, it's bulky and installation issues. If I beat that I will stick an air cooler only. Fire and forget.

Also, there is a question where shall I put the RAD? above CPU or at the front of the case? That needs to be tested.

I prefer air coming the front of the PC case and going out from above and behind the case. A large 240mm exhaust from top of the case. The bigger the fan the silent they can be.

 

Thanks again.

[croppy]

Does anyone know if people have done testing with threadripper vs 10 core i9, but disabling some of the threadripper cores for premiere or after effects and seeing if there is much performance loss, while alleviating some cores to continue using the machine, where the 10 core version would be unusebale due to full tilt-ing?

[pKc]

1 minute ago, croppy said:

Does anyone know if people have done testing with threadripper vs 10 core i9, but disabling some of the threadripper cores for premiere or after effects and seeing if there is much performance loss, while alleviating some cores to continue using the machine, where the 10 core version would be unusebale due to full tilt-ing?

I never saw that anywhere. 

TR owners can anybody please try that and post results.

[pKc]

3 minutes ago, Hw87634 said:

If I understood well we discuss about "3%"?

$ 354 (2000 -1646) for 3% can be a little too much. 

the choice I made for my system in late 2017 was: 7960x at € 1,450 ($1,779) or a 1950x for € 837 (1,227 $) for only a 10%. I choosed 1950x.

unfortunately I've to confirm the poor memory support, I still run at 2666, not 3000. 

If you have a chance to buy again this year today? Which one will you choose? Can I ask that to you?  

[Streetguru]

1 hour ago, pKc said:

 

Always
Buy
Threadripper

16 cores and 64 PCI-e lanes for under $999 can't be beat. You can work on multiple projects at a time if need be.

[pKc]

4 minutes ago, Streetguru said:

Always
Buy
Threadripper

16 cores and 64 PCI-e lanes for under $999 can't be beat. You can work on multiple projects at a time if need be.

Can't deny the fact. I am moving towards TR slowly.  Lets see few more days.

[Archon42]

57 minutes ago, pKc said:

Also, there is a question where shall I put the RAD? above CPU or at the front of the case? That needs to be tested.

I prefer air coming the front of the PC case and going out from above and behind the case. A large 240mm exhaust from top of the case. The bigger the fan the silent they can be.

I have the Cryorig A80 which has two 140 fans (280 rad) on top (exhaust). The Fractal R6 TG should be able to handle a 240/280/360 on top, but I am confused by what they mean by 'standard' and 'open' layout for the top (see their product page). I vote for above the CPU/top of the case, as you have indicated long hours of usage at 100% which will heat up the air to air cooler levels and that hot air will pass over all the components inside if coming from the front. Heat reduces lifespan of components so my vote goes with putting the rad at the top or anywhere except exhausting hot air into the inside of your case. My 2 cents.

 

Another thing I forgot to mention, if you RAID your drives, getting Intel will require you to ensure that the board you are getting comes with the VROC key embedded or otherwise to enable you to use RAID. Older batch of boards and those who bought them can't get them as Intel is not selling VROC to the public afaik.

[Streetguru]

1 hour ago, pKc said:

Can't deny the fact. I am moving towards TR slowly.  Lets see few more days.

If Ryzen 2 isn't a major improvement I'll likely be buying Threadripper on April 19th instead of waiting for Threadripper 2 way later in the year.

Every TR build needs to start with these components unless you're doing a custom loop.
 

PCPartPicker part list: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/zt7mM8
Price breakdown by merchant: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/zt7mM8/by_merchant/

CPU: AMD - Threadripper 1950X 3.4GHz 16-Core Processor  ($879.49 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Enermax - LiqTech TR4 360 102.2 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler  ($132.79 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: Asus - ROG ZENITH EXTREME EATX TR4 Motherboard  ($414.71 @ Amazon)
Total: $1426.99
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2018-04-09 04:59 EDT-0400
 

 

[croppy]

1 hour ago, Streetguru said:

16 cores and 64 PCI-e lanes for under $999 can't be beat. You can work on multiple projects at a time if need be.

This is essentially the question I want answered, I would love to see a head to head against the TR and i9 10 core, but with TR core limited to 10 cores for rendering, and trying to do something else, like watch youtube or something, and do the same thing on the i9, without disabling any cores, but see what real world feel is like, and the performance delta of the renders between the two.

 

I would guess the i9 would win the render times, but I wonder by how much, and if it's enough to warrant the loss in multi tasking performance.

[Lathlaer]

AFAIK @done12many2 has both platforms (X299 and X399) and tested both of them in various scenarios, so he might be able to shed some light on your situation. 

[Streetguru]

2 minutes ago, croppy said:

This is essentially the question I want answered, I would love to see a head to head against the TR and i9 10 core, but with TR core limited to 10 cores for rendering, and trying to do something else, like watch youtube or something, and do the same thing on the i9, without disabling any cores, but see what real world feel is like, and the performance delta of the renders between the two.

 

I would guess the i9 would win the render times, but I wonder by how much, and if it's enough to warrant the loss in multi tasking performance.

People have done some of those EXTREME MEGA TASKING tests

But simply put just think of it like having 2 R7 1800Xs in the same system, pretty much just throw 4 cores/8 threads to whatever program you want and it'll run fine.
 

 

 

[pKc]

26 minutes ago, Archon42 said:

I have the Cryorig A80 which has two 140 fans (280 rad) on top (exhaust). The Fractal R6 TG should be able to handle a 240/280/360 on top, but I am confused by what they mean by 'standard' and 'open' layout for the top (see their product page). I vote for above the CPU/top of the case, as you have indicated long hours of usage at 100% which will heat up the air to air cooler levels and that hot air will pass over all the components inside if coming from the front. Heat reduces lifespan of components so my vote goes with putting the rad at the top or anywhere except exhausting hot air into the inside of your case. My 2 cents.

 

Another thing I forgot to mention, if you RAID your drives, getting Intel will require you to ensure that the board you are getting comes with the VROC key embedded or otherwise to enable you to use RAID. Older batch of boards and those who bought them can't get them as Intel is not selling VROC to the public afaik.

Rad placement: This guy have some numbers 

 

Though realistic scenarios have to be tested with each case I guess.

 

Raid: I choose R6 TG because of number of HDD it can keep. Didn't thought of a raid yet but a point that I will have to think. I was planning to keep a disk just to backup projects in case of a disk failure. TR options are actually lucrative, objectively. 

[Streetguru]

12 minutes ago, pKc said:

 

For the case the Mastercase MC500 is the way to go most likely.

It's just a rebranced mastercase pro 5 as far as I can tell. It's $80-90 on newegg, supports E-ATX and the 360 AIO in the front. at least it should support that X399 board above*
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119340&cm_re=MC500-_-11-119-340-_-Product

 

[pKc]

Thanks for the video. I never searched YouTube for heavy multi tasking scenarios for TR. Its opening my eyes.

 

Actual working scenarios helps. Thanks mate again.

 

Also not many mobo available for TR. only few to select. Also are initial hiccups gone for TR boards? Socket and memory?

[pKc]

Just had a chat with the technical guy of a country level distributor for PC parts. He says go for TR. He says all the initial problems with TR are over. I will list the suggested parts along with TR 1950x as soon I receive from them.

 

TR price as of today is 1200 USD

 

 

[Archon42]

1 hour ago, pKc said:

Rad placement: This guy have some numbers 

 

Though realistic scenarios have to be tested with each case I guess.

I avoid front mounted rads to keep my two 980ti under 60 degree C and fans off; I am working off the theory that using the GPU fans less will make them last longer.

 

33 minutes ago, pKc said:

Just had a chat with the technical guy of a country level distributor for PC parts. He says go for TR. He says all the initial problems with TR are over. I will list the suggested parts along with TR 1950x as soon I receive from them.

 

TR price as of today is 1200 USD

 

USD 1200 in India? Tax problems? Anyways, if not in a hurry, try to wait for a sale. He is somewhat correct about the initial problems being over part. Make sure (if possible) that they ship you a board with the latest BIOS if you are sporting NVMEs or planning a new RAID install on NVMEs or any RAID drives. See if they offer a CPU+mobo+memory bundle as a bundled offer is likely safest in terms of out of the box compatibility. I am personally using the Asrock X399 Fatality, and can vouch for the reliability of the board due to personal experience. I have yet to find good memory for it though as I am basically borrowing a pair of sticks from friends who help out with testing to try to find the right RAM. AMD Ryzen branded RAM is hard to find here.

Good luck!!

[pKc]

9 minutes ago, Archon42 said:

 

TR 1950x is 1200 USD inclusive of taxes and 7900x is 1150 USD, 7940x is 1538 usd

 

Here is the breakup usd (converted from INR)

1950x	1200
Aurous gaming 7	458
HDD 2tb x 2	140
Coolermaster 750w V750	144
Fractal design r6 TG	196
1070 GT Ti	669
Ram 64gb	873
Coolermaster 240L	111
	3791

[Archon42]

1 minute ago, pKc said:

TR 1950x is 1200 USD inclusive of taxes and 7900x is 1150 USD, 7940x is 1538 usd

 

Here is the breakup usd (converted from INR)

1950x	1200
Aurous gaming 7	458
HDD 2tb x 2	140
Coolermaster 750w V750	144
Fractal design r6 TG	196
1070 GT Ti	669
Ram 64gb	873
Coolermaster 240L	111
	3791

Not sure about your workloads, but are you certain you won't benefit from faster storage?

Also, not sure if it will be an issue, but the Aurous Gaming 7 has only one LAN port built in. The third slot looks like a cool PCIe 3.0 x16, but should be only a PCIe 2.0 x4 at best; don't be fooled! Make sure to turn off all RGB if you want to maximize power savings over long periods of usage.

Also, the Coolermaster 240L doesn't seem to come with the TR bracket out of the box (see here). May want to double check if the unit you are ordering comes with the bracket for free. See this compatibility list; note that the black tick marks denote coolers that need the bracket to be acquired separately.

 

The PSU should be sufficient, but may want to double check the CPU cables that come with the PSU and the CPU cables needed for your motherboard.

[pKc]

2 minutes ago, Archon42 said:

Not sure about your workloads, but are you certain you won't benefit from faster storage?

Also, not sure if it will be an issue, but the Aurous Gaming 7 has only one LAN port built in. The third slot looks like a cool PCIe 3.0 x16, but should be only a PCIe 2.0 x4 at best; don't be fooled! Make sure to turn off all RGB if you want to maximize power savings over long periods of usage.

Also, the Coolermaster 240L doesn't seem to come with the TR bracket out of the box (see here). May want to double check if the unit you are ordering comes with the bracket for free. See this compatibility list; note that the black tick marks denote coolers that need the bracket to be acquired separately.

 

The PSU should be sufficient, but may want to double check the CPU cables that come with the PSU and the CPU cables needed for your motherboard.

1. Cooler: I will go for Corsair hydro 115i, They are giving discount on Coolermaster 240ML. Thanks for the heads up on compatibility list.

I confirmed the part is "MasterLiquid ML240L RGB Cooler MLW-D24M-A20PC-R1"

2. I dont need RGB at all. Going to turn it off. Better switch it to MSI?

3. MSI SLI plus is 430 USD tad cheaper the Aurous, May be will go for that.

4. I have Samsung 850 Evo 250gb for OS. That I will reuse in this build.

5. PSU: I will surely check the cables. I need braided cables but not many option in cooler-master or corsair in 750W with the dealer.

 

Thanks Again

 

[croppy]

2 hours ago, Streetguru said:

People have done some of those EXTREME MEGA TASKING tests

But simply put just think of it like having 2 R7 1800Xs in the same system, pretty much just throw 4 cores/8 threads to whatever program you want and it'll run fine.
 

 

 

This is great, I would love to see the same from something like the 10 core i9 as a point of difference