Xbox One will sport AMD freesync technology

[Sniperfox47]

Just now, Notional said:

Technically you are correct, however, AMD is responsible for both Vesa's Adaptive Sync and HDMI 2.1's new VRR. So I can guarantee that Freesync will utilize both in any product.

I'm not so sure. Adaptive sync and VRR are *not* intercompatible on the hardware side.

 

That means you have current gen graphics cards that don't support HDMI 2.1 and therefore don't support VRR, next gen graphics cards that do, current gen monitors that don't, and next gen monitors that do. Putting all of this under the "freesync" banner and leaving it ambiguous to the customer is a good way to cause a lot of customer confusion *ahem*intel*ahem*.

 

I'd say it's more likely we see a "Freesync HDMI" or some such sub-branding that will be used for VRR, separating it out as a standalone feature to help differentiate products that support it.

 

And do keep in mind, controllers for newer HDMI revisions are more expensive. There are still monitors on the market that support only up to HDMI 1.4. Not every new monitor is going to jump on the bandwagon and adopt HDMI 2.1 (or even 2.0 for that matter) anytime soon.

[laminutederire]

19 hours ago, SCGazelle said:

GSync doesn't have this limitation

Well g-sync does have a specific operating range just like freesync... roughly on equally priced monitors you get the same ranges for gsync and freesync anyways being 30Hz-whatever is the normal refresh rate.

[Notional]

8 minutes ago, Sniperfox47 said:

That means you have current gen graphics cards that don't support HDMI 2.1 and therefore don't support VRR, next gen graphics cards that do, current gen monitors that don't, and next gen monitors that do. Putting all of this under the "freesync" banner and leaving it ambiguous to the customer is a good way to cause a lot of customer confusion *ahem*intel*ahem*.

I don't know what you base that on. Sure, certain things like bandwidth are completely hardware based, but VRR only requires hardware implementation on the panel side, not the GPU side. That is why current AMD cards can use Freesync over HDMI, even though HDMI 1.4 doesn't support it. HDM 2.1 is backwards compatible after all, so I would be very surprised if older AMD GPU's cannot utilize VRR on HDM 2.1.

 

HDMI 2.1 is interesting on the TV side, not on the monitor side as much. DisplayPort is adequate there (unless we are talking very high res/refresh rate).

[cj09beira]

20 hours ago, SCGazelle said:

FYI, there is a refresh rate range for FreeSync. Depending on the implementation on the monitor the minimum will usually be around 48 to 40hz, some of the LG 75hz and 144hz monitors with FreeSync have minimums of even 55 or 70hz but some of the better ones can get a 30hz minimum. AMD has a helpful resource that shows the range and a couple basic specs for each FreeSync-compatible monitor:

https://www.amd.com/en/products/freesync-monitors

 

GSync doesn't have this limitation.

that's theoretical. Afaik, there isn't a panel that can actually achieve either the 9hz or 240hz limit with FreeSync.

g-sync also has that limitation the only difference is that it shows the same image multiple times, because you cant slow down a monitor too much,

and with freesync as long as you have fmax > fmin*2 freesync will also do the same frame doubling, so current limitations are only due to monitor scaler limitations whch considering the price difference is acceptable 

[EunSoo]

17 hours ago, Notional said:

No LCD panel can go below 30hz. But if max framerate is at least twice as high as min framerate; freesync is able to use LFC (low framerate compensation), that is identical to gsync, in that it multiplies the frames. Say your FPS is 29, the GPU will send out the same frame twice, thus running the panel at 58hz.

20 hours ago, huilun02 said:

ah, good to know

[dalekphalm]

I'm excited for this.

 

Many XBOX One games will get above 30 FPS, but will be unable to reach a rock solid 60. XBOX One X allows this to be true even more often (especially on 1080p - and now also 1440p panels).

 

There are a plethora of existing FreeSync monitors to choose from, and many console gamers already use a Computer Monitor as their display - often due to not having a TV of their own, or not having one in their room (but they do have a computer with a monitor they can use), etc.

 

And, within 1-2 years, we will see the odd TV with FreeSync/XBOX One S/X compatible VRR.

[Sniperfox47]

5 hours ago, Notional said:

I don't know what you base that on. Sure, certain things like bandwidth are completely hardware based, but VRR only requires hardware implementation on the panel side, not the GPU side. That is why current AMD cards can use Freesync over HDMI, even though HDMI 1.4 doesn't support it. HDM 2.1 is backwards compatible after all, so I would be very surprised if older AMD GPU's cannot utilize VRR on HDM 2.1.

 

HDMI 2.1 is interesting on the TV side, not on the monitor side as much. DisplayPort is adequate there (unless we are talking very high res/refresh rate).

A) VRR is a communication protocol. Both sides need to be able to speak it, meaning both your source and sink *must* be HDMI 2.1. Where are you hearing otherwise?

 

B) AMD cards can use freesync over HDMI because AdaptiveSync is cable agnostic. VESA's AdaptiveSync can be implemented on top of DisplayPort, HDMI, DVI, or any other display interface with an extensible communication layer, it doesn't care. HDMI 1.4, 2.0, 2.1, they can all use AdaptiveSync, but only HDMI 2.1 can use HDMI VRR. The current freesync over HDMI has absolutely nothing to do with HDMI 2.1 VRR, and has existed since well before HDMI 2.1 was even announced..

 

C)Older AMD GPUs do not have HDMI 2.1, so they cannot utilize HDMI 2.1. It's no different from how GPUs with DisplayPort 1.3 can't use Display Stream compression. The controllers fundamentally do not have the capability of handling it.

[Notional]

17 minutes ago, Sniperfox47 said:

A) VRR is a communication protocol. Both sides need to be able to speak it, meaning both your source and sink *must* be HDMI 2.1. Where are you hearing otherwise?

 

B) AMD cards can use freesync over HDMI because AdaptiveSync is cable agnostic. VESA's AdaptiveSync can be implemented on top of DisplayPort, HDMI, DVI, or any other display interface with an extensible communication layer, it doesn't care. HDMI 1.4, 2.0, 2.1, they can all use AdaptiveSync, but only HDMI 2.1 can use HDMI VRR. The current freesync over HDMI has absolutely nothing to do with HDMI 2.1 VRR, and has existed since well before HDMI 2.1 was even announced..

 

C)Older AMD GPUs do not have HDMI 2.1, so they cannot utilize HDMI 2.1. It's no different from how GPUs with DisplayPort 1.3 can't use Display Stream compression. The controllers fundamentally do not have the capability of handling it.

A. You seem to have some misconception about the function of variable refresh rate. In Adaptive Sync/freesync, it is mostly a question of sending a variable vblank signal between the frames, to alert the monitor controller (that has to support vrr) when to draw the next frame. From a Displayport controller side, this does not need any further hardware controller implementation, which is why AMD cards could easily support it out of the box. The vblank signal is purely software related. This is why AMD could get it to work over HDMI too. They had to break the official spec, but no matter, as the monitor controller (scaler) on the other end had to support this anyways. I don't know why you think the HDMI controller itself has to support it?

 

B. Adaptive Sync has nothing to do with cables. It is part of the DP protocol. When used over HDMI, it breaks the HDMI protocol, which can be done, if the monitor understands this modified protocol. This is why a lot of freesync monitors don't support VRR over HDMI, but only using DP. That is also why it's not called Adaptive Sync when used over HDMI, but merely being called Freesync, as it is a proprietary implementation by AMD and the monitor vendors.

 

C. Nothing has HDMI 2.1, as the spec is not yet finished. But VRR is merely a signal transmitted over the communication protocol. The actual "implementation" of the variable vblank signals are performed by the monitor controller, that controls the frame draw of the panel.

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At the end of the day, if HDMI 2.1 VRR required an HDMI 2.1 controller on the GPU side to work, then AMD wouldn't be able to implement Freesync support on it via a driver update on existing RadeOn GPU's. Yet they will: https://overclock3d.net/news/gpu_displays/hdmi_2_1_vrr_support_will_come_to_amd_radeon_rx_gpus_with_a_future_driver_update/1

 

Obviously, the TV/monitor will need a new up to date monitor controller with full hardware support for HDMI 2.1 to work. But that has nothing to do with AMD GPU's, nor Freesync.

[Sniperfox47]

8 hours ago, Notional said:

A. You seem to have some misconception about the function of variable refresh rate. In Adaptive Sync/freesync, it is mostly a question of sending a variable vblank signal between the frames, to alert the monitor controller (that has to support vrr) when to draw the next frame. From a Displayport controller side, this does not need any further hardware controller implementation, which is why AMD cards could easily support it out of the box. The vblank signal is purely software related. This is why AMD could get it to work over HDMI too. They had to break the official spec, but no matter, as the monitor controller (scaler) on the other end had to support this anyways. I don't know why you think the HDMI controller itself has to support it?

 

B. Adaptive Sync has nothing to do with cables. It is part of the DP protocol. When used over HDMI, it breaks the HDMI protocol, which can be done, if the monitor understands this modified protocol. This is why a lot of freesync monitors don't support VRR over HDMI, but only using DP. That is also why it's not called Adaptive Sync when used over HDMI, but merely being called Freesync, as it is a proprietary implementation by AMD and the monitor vendors.

 

C. Nothing has HDMI 2.1, as the spec is not yet finished. But VRR is merely a signal transmitted over the communication protocol. The actual "implementation" of the variable vblank signals are performed by the monitor controller, that controls the frame draw of the panel.

 

---

 

At the end of the day, if HDMI 2.1 VRR required an HDMI 2.1 controller on the GPU side to work, then AMD wouldn't be able to implement Freesync support on it via a driver update on existing RadeOn GPU's. Yet they will: https://overclock3d.net/news/gpu_displays/hdmi_2_1_vrr_support_will_come_to_amd_radeon_rx_gpus_with_a_future_driver_update/1

 

Obviously, the TV/monitor will need a new up to date monitor controller with full hardware support for HDMI 2.1 to work. But that has nothing to do with AMD GPU's, nor Freesync.

Adaptive Sync is *not* part of DisplayPort is my whole point... If you go to VESA's site, it's a whole seperate spec that their DisplayPort spec includes. It is included in DisplayPort, but it's not *only* included in DisplayPort. Just as their DSC (Display Stream Compression) spec is a seperate spec from DisplayPort 1.4, that could potentially be adopted by other standards.

 

And you're not "breaking" the HDMI spec... Both the DDC and TMDS are expandable by design...

[Yoinkerman]

I hate consoles as much as the next civilized person but this is actually really good for both PC and console markets.

 

Unless it turns out like the xbox camera