Worth the side-grade?

[ShadowChaser]

I'm running a GTX970 SC from EVGA and my friend recently got a 1080ti. He now has a spare 1060 6GB. Since I'll be running the card in an itx case, the lower wattage from the 1060 should, in theory, reduce overall noise and heat. I'm just wondering if it's worth selling my 970 to cover the costs of a new 1060. He's offering it for just over MSRP of the actual card (EVGA SC Gaming Single Fan). About $299

[Oshino Shinobu]

Not worth it. It's basically not worth buying a GPU at all right now, especially if you already have one. 

[kerradeph]

23 minutes ago, ShadowChaser said:

He's offering it for just over MSRP of the actual card (EVGA SC Gaming Single Fan). About $299

It's still a used card. Even in the current market I wouldn't pay over MSRP.

[ShadowChaser]

20 minutes ago, Oshino Shinobu said:

Not worth it. It's basically not worth buying a GPU at all right now, especially if you already have one. 

 

1 minute ago, kerradeph said:

It's still a used card. Even in the current market I wouldn't pay over MSRP.

Ok, so I should just wait it out? My 970 is really cooking in my case. I suppose I could just put it on Ebay for $200 though.

[Darkseth]

it's not a sidegrade, it's an upgrade.

GTX 1060 6gb = GTX 980 performance. But with "only" 120w Power usage, and also full 6gb Vram (instead of 3.5gb).

But it will be only max 15-20% additional performance. Slightly more, in scenes, where 3.5gb Vram isn't enough.

 

However... Is your GTX 970 too loud/hot? if yes, this might change it.

 

But i would think about calling this guy a "friend". Seriously, he sells you his used GTX 1060 for OVER msrp? Good friend you have... I would consider this a scam.

If he considers you a Friend, he should go down in Price, and make you a special offer.

Not more than 250 bucks tbh. It's a USED card, and he's your Friend. No reason to pay more than new-price for it.

Might as well go down to 200-230 bucks, depending on friendship level. But anything more than 250 bucks isn't worth in this case.

 

 

 

Btw: EVGA SC single Fan isn't the best card tho... At least the Cooling design is very decent (MUCH better than the Gaming (without SC)). However, EVGA fucked the bios up a little bit, it boosts quite aggressive --> quite Hot VRMs and VRAMs. Check Tomshardware, they covered it up.

 

My suggestion to counter this problem (and strenghen the efficiency, reducing heat, noise and power consumption even further, since you have an ITX Case): Undervolting.

0.900 Volt should be fine for (almost) 2 Ghz~. Stock voltage is 1.05 volt, maybe 1.043 Volt (depending on steps), that's a huge difference in heat, noise and power consumption while keeping the same performance.

 

Or, you go nuts, and go down to 0.800 Volt, down to like 1800-1875 Mhz (depending on what the chip can manage stable), combine it with a +300 to +500 Mhz Memory OC.

With this greatly reduced Voltage your heat output will be extremely lowered. Power consumption should drop from 120w~ down to like 80-85w~, with maybe only a few single % lower performance (the memory OC helps counter the reduced Clock speeds).

Also with this low Voltage / heat: VRMs and VRAMs won't get nearly as hot as in stock.

 

I did this with my GTX 1060 MSI Gaming X (upgraded to 1080), UV to 0.800 Volt, it managed 1876 Mhz stable, and i put a +500 Mhz memory OC on it (or was it +400 only...). The Card itself went down to 86w~ or so. My whole computer during Rise of the Tomb Raider maxed out (35 fps, just to stress the GPU for this test) pulled like 150-160w out of the Wall (minus PSU efficiency, 140~ Watt power consumption for whole Computer). Rest was an i7 6700k @ 4.4 Ghz (1.28v), 1 SSD, 2 HDD, 2 Fans.

When my GTX 1060 ran @ stock, or slightly Overclocked, my whole PC pulled 220w out of the wall.

Just to show you, what kind of power consumption you can expect with a GTX 1060.

 

 

TL;DR: Check how much you can get for your GTX 970. If you only pay 50-80 bucks additionally for the 1060 (which you should get for no more than 250 bucks tbh. He's your FRIEND), i't's worth the upgrade

- 15-20% more performance~

- lower power consumption at the same time (even MUCH more if you undervolt it) --> lower heat and probably noise possible, especially for ITX.

- full 6 gb Vram (instead of 3.5gb. The 0.5gb are similar fast as modern DDR4 Ram, so.. worthless)

- more modern Architecture. Might mean, longer support/optimization, better optimization for some games. Forza Horizon for example showed this, where only Pascal/Polaris got solid fps, but the previous generation (GTX 970 AND R9 390X) were unusual far behind. Still, very rare example. But it can happen

 

[ShadowChaser]

2 minutes ago, Darkseth said:

it's not a sidegrade, it's an upgrade.

GTX 1060 6gb = GTX 980 performance. But with "only" 120w Power usage, and also full 6gb Vram (instead of 3.5gb).

But it will be only max 15-20% additional performance. Slightly more, in scenes, where 3.5gb Vram isn't enough.

 

However... Is your GTX 970 too loud/hot? if yes, this might change it.

 

But i would think about calling this guy a "friend". Seriously, he sells you his used GTX 1060 for OVER msrp? Good friend you have... I would consider this a scam.

If he considers you a Friend, he should go down in Price, and make you a special offer.

Not more than 250 bucks tbh. It's a USED card, and he's your Friend. No reason to pay more than new-price for it.

Might as well go down to 200-230 bucks, depending on friendship level. But anything more than 250 bucks isn't worth in this case.

 

 

 

Btw: EVGA SC single Fan isn't the best card tho... At least the Cooling design is very decent (MUCH better than the Gaming (without SC)). However, EVGA fucked the bios up a little bit, it boosts quite aggressive --> quite Hot VRMs and VRAMs. Check Tomshardware, they covered it up.

 

My suggestion to counter this problem (and strenghen the efficiency, reducing heat, noise and power consumption even further, since you have an ITX Case): Undervolting.

0.900 Volt should be fine for (almost) 2 Ghz~. Stock voltage is 1.05 volt, maybe 1.043 Volt (depending on steps), that's a huge difference in heat, noise and power consumption while keeping the same performance.

 

Or, you go nuts, and go down to 0.800 Volt, down to like 1800-1875 Mhz (depending on what the chip can manage stable), combine it with a +300 to +500 Mhz Memory OC.

With this greatly reduced Voltage your heat output will be extremely lowered. Power consumption should drop from 120w~ down to like 80-85w~, with maybe only a few single % lower performance (the memory OC helps counter the reduced Clock speeds).

Also with this low Voltage / heat: VRMs and VRAMs won't get nearly as hot as in stock.

 

I did this with my GTX 1060 MSI Gaming X (upgraded to 1080), UV to 0.800 Volt, it managed 1876 Mhz stable, and i put a +500 Mhz memory OC on it (or was it +400 only...). The Card itself went down to 86w~ or so. My whole computer during Rise of the Tomb Raider maxed out (35 fps, just to stress the GPU for this test) drew like 150-160w out of the Wall (minus PSU efficiency, 140~ Watt power consumption for whole Computer). Rest was an i7 6700k @ 4.4 Ghz (1.28v), 1 SSD, 2 HDD, 2 Fans.

When my GTX 1060 ran @ stock, or slightly Overclocked, my whole PC pulled 220w out of the wall.

Just to show you, what kind of power consumption you can expect with a GTX 1060.

 

 

TL;DR: Check how much you can get for your GTX 970. If you only pay 50-80 bucks additionally for the 1060 (which you should get for no more than 250 bucks tbh. He's your FRIEND), i't's worth.

- 15-20% more performance~

- lower power consumption at the same time (even MUCH more if you undervolt it)

Ok, I asked and he's willing to drop it to $250~260, not quite firm yet, but I can't undervolt my cards at all. What software do you use or do you flash the bios? MSI Afterburner's voltage slider does not change my card's vcore at all.

 

Also, 1060s in my area go for ~450 minimum, so the fact that he offered it at MSRP says something.

[Princess Luna]

a GTX 970 for a GTX 1060 is exchange six for half a dozen, not worth the investment for a slightly less noiseful card.

[Darkseth]

Bios flash doesn't work, i think it's still "blocked" so you cant edit it properly.

 

You need to use Afterburner. But the Voltage slider isn't working well. You can crank it up to +100% (forget the number tho..), which allows Pascal to increase the Boost steps from max 1.05 Volt to 1.093 Volt. 

 

 

You have to click on a little small symbol to open the "Voltage Curve Editor". Alternatively with  CTRL + F ^^"

Looks difficult, but once you understood how that works, it's really easy.

 

For this: 

 

You basicly hold Shift, and pull the whole Curve up and down (click on the Voltage point you want to set the max boost step to, and draw the voltage point to the Core clock you want to have. Example: 0.900 Volt and 1936 Mhz).

Then, you pull ALL higher voltage points DOWN below your target-point.

Example: https://imgur.com/dHrwLPR

Here you see the curve going up to 0.863 Volt, and around.... 1911 - 1923 Mhz? something like that.

Since there is no Voltage, that has a higher core clock, the Chip will never boost above 0.863 Volt --> under Load you will have 0.863 Volt and slightly above 1900 Mhz.

 

 

Edit: Keep in Mind, you can undervolt your 970 too (however, not to that extend, since a 1060 has a lower power consumption in general).

 

If you want to make that trade... Also keep in Mind, performance wise it's like "upgrading" your GTX 970 to a 980. It's a slight performance bump, but it won't be anything big. Maybe you will have only a few more fps more.

It is indeed a better overall package, that does EVERYTHING alittle better. It depends, how much the difference will be between your 970 sale, and the 1060 price. If that's too big, it's not worth. If it's almost for free, go for it (like, if you can sell your 970 for 200+ bucks)

[ShadowChaser]

21 hours ago, Darkseth said:

Bios flash doesn't work, i think it's still "blocked" so you cant edit it properly.

 

You need to use Afterburner. But the Voltage slider isn't working well. You can crank it up to +100% (forget the number tho..), which allows Pascal to increase the Boost steps from max 1.05 Volt to 1.093 Volt. 

 

 

You have to click on a little small symbol to open the "Voltage Curve Editor". Alternatively with  CTRL + F ^^"

Looks difficult, but once you understood how that works, it's really easy.

 

For this: 

 

You basicly hold Shift, and pull the whole Curve up and down (click on the Voltage point you want to set the max boost step to, and draw the voltage point to the Core clock you want to have. Example: 0.900 Volt and 1936 Mhz).

Then, you pull ALL higher voltage points DOWN below your target-point.

Example: https://imgur.com/dHrwLPR

Here you see the curve going up to 0.863 Volt, and around.... 1911 - 1923 Mhz? something like that.

Since there is no Voltage, that has a higher core clock, the Chip will never boost above 0.863 Volt --> under Load you will have 0.863 Volt and slightly above 1900 Mhz.

 

 

Edit: Keep in Mind, you can undervolt your 970 too (however, not to that extend, since a 1060 has a lower power consumption in general).

 

If you want to make that trade... Also keep in Mind, performance wise it's like "upgrading" your GTX 970 to a 980. It's a slight performance bump, but it won't be anything big. Maybe you will have only a few more fps more.

It is indeed a better overall package, that does EVERYTHING alittle better. It depends, how much the difference will be between your 970 sale, and the 1060 price. If that's too big, it's not worth. If it's almost for free, go for it (like, if you can sell your 970 for 200+ bucks)

So I tried this, and my GPU does not like being undervolted at all, leading to hard crashes if I even touch the curve. I suppose I just got unlucky?

[Darkseth]

Either that, or you did something wrong ^^"

 

Don't forget... you can NOT copy Pascal numbers to Maxwell...

While 1500 Mhz for example is pretty low for a Pascal 10-series GPU, it's considere a VERY High OC for Maxwell 9-series.

[ShadowChaser]

1 minute ago, Darkseth said:

Either that, or you did something wrong ^^"

 

Don't forget... you can NOT copy Pascal numbers to Maxwell...

While 1500 Mhz for example is pretty low for a Pascal 10-series GPU, it's considere a VERY High OC for Maxwell 9-series.

I know, I reset my card to factory clocks and only messed with vcore.

Otherwise, it can hit 1450ish mhz without a vcore boost, which is pretty nice, but still runs awfully hot.

[xg32]

22 hours ago, ShadowChaser said:

I'm running a GTX970 SC from EVGA and my friend recently got a 1080ti. He now has a spare 1060 6GB. Since I'll be running the card in an itx case, the lower wattage from the 1060 should, in theory, reduce overall noise and heat. I'm just wondering if it's worth selling my 970 to cover the costs of a new 1060. He's offering it for just over MSRP of the actual card (EVGA SC Gaming Single Fan). About $299

check if ur 970 is one of the early sc model that catches fire, if so, just upgrade for that, get rid of it asap. and a 1060 6gb is at least a 25% upgrade. If the 970 isn't the model that blows up you are basically getting a 25% upgrade and doing ur friend a favor at the same time.

[ShadowChaser]

1 minute ago, xg32 said:

check if ur 970 is one of the early sc model that catches fire, if so, just upgrade for that, get rid of it asap. and a 1060 6gb is at least a 25% upgrade. If the 970 isn't the model that blows up you are basically getting a 25% upgrade and doing ur friend a favor at the same time.

No, it has the sightly updated coldplate and fin spacing. I also put pads and sinks on all the memory chips and vrms, so no fire for me ^^