Why does your clock have to be correct for internet?

[emosun]

Here's an odd question that I didn't immediately find a google answer for

Why is it that if your computers clock is incorrect , the internet doesn't work? Like if your machine isn't set to sync the clock with a server elsewhere the internet simply doesn't work. Perhaps it might be the "world wide web" that doesn't work rather than all internet. I suppose it would have to be WWW only as it wouldn't be able to sync the time with a server without all internet.

it just seems odd to me that the time has to match.

or is this a fake limitation added by microsoft , similar to the case of windows 32bit only using 3.5gb of ram also based on a fake limitation.

[WereCatf]

Quote

Why does your clock have to be correct for internet?

It doesn't.

[emosun]

3 minutes ago, WereCatf said:

It doesn't.

ok , desync your clock from the time server and change the time and let me know how that goes for you

[WereCatf]

Just now, emosun said:

ok , desync your clock from the time server and change the time and let me know how that goes for you

Done. Works fine.

[emosun]

Just now, WereCatf said:

Done. Works fine.

#obvioustrollisobvious

 

if you don't know anything about a subject maybe don't bother commenting. pretending you did it gets you nowhere.

[Jurrunio]

I believe not having the right clock makes the transfer processes go wrong. I guess the time of each transfer between client and server is calculated with time from both sides. If the time is not the same (different time zones share the same UTC+0 time) then the software goes nuts

9 minutes ago, WereCatf said:

It doesn't.

not at all times

[Jurrunio]

Just now, emosun said:

#obvioustrollisobvious

 

if you don't know anything about a subject maybe don't bother commenting. pretending you did it gets you nowhere.

He's not entirely trolling. Some servers do not force clock checks/

[WereCatf]

Just now, emosun said:

#obvioustrollisobvious

 

if you don't know anything about a subject maybe don't bother commenting. pretending you did it gets you nowhere.

How do you claim that I'm trolling? Based on what? Should I record you a fucking video of it working?

[WereCatf]

2 minutes ago, Jurrunio said:

I believe not having the right clock makes the HTTP protocol thing go wrong. I guess the time of each transfer between client and server is calculated with time from both sides. If the time is not the same (different time zones share the same UTC+0 time) then the software goes nuts

not at all times

No, there is nothing in the protocol that requires such.

[emosun]

2 minutes ago, Jurrunio said:

I believe not having the right clock makes the HTTP protocol thing go wrong. I guess the time of each transfer between client and server is calculated with time from both sides. If the time is not the same (different time zones share the same UTC+0 time) then the software goes nuts

hmm that's odd they would do that. was that always in place or a new protocol?  I feel like that never used to be an issue on 9x or 2000/xp

[Jurrunio]

2 minutes ago, WereCatf said:

No, there is nothing in the protocol that requires such.

 

1 minute ago, emosun said:

hmm that's odd they would do that. was that always in place or a new protocol?  I feel like that never used to be an issue on 9x or 2000/xp

I edited that out because server settings is not the same as protocol requirements

 

I remember facing the problem in Youtube in the past. The CMOS battery has run dry and the BIOS clock resets back to the default time (which is obviously wrong). I didnt notice the problem until I get to Youtube in which Chrome reported the time error and the page didnt load at all.

[emosun]

Just now, Jurrunio said:

I remember facing the problem in Youtube in the past. The CMOS battery has run dry and the BIOS clock resets back to the default time (which is obviously wrong). I didnt notice the problem until I get to Youtube in which Chrome reported the time error and the page didnt load at all.

Yeah that's more or less the issue I sometimes see.

but instead , I have a machine that is exactly one hour off , and If i attempt to change the time to the correct time zone and time it desyncs from the time server and of course disables the internet. when i resync it sets the time incorrectly. It's a weird issue.

I just think it's odd that the time has to match on both ends. You'd think it wouldnt really matter at all.

[WereCatf]

Just now, Jurrunio said:

I remember facing the problem in Youtube in the past. The CMOS battery has run dry and the BIOS clock resets back to the default time (which is obviously wrong). I didnt notice the problem until I get to Youtube in which Chrome reported the time error and the page didnt load at all.

Sounds like Chrome does something stupid then. I wouldn't know, I don't use Chrome. Firefox certainly doesn't care, works like a peach even if I set the clock back to the 90's, and nothing in either the HTTP- or the underlying TCP/IP-protocol requires your system-clock to match the other system's clock.

[emosun]

Just now, WereCatf said:

Sounds like Chrome does something stupid then. I wouldn't know, I don't use Chrome. Firefox certainly doesn't care, works like a peach even if I set the clock back to the 90's, and nothing in either the HTTP- or the underlying TCP/IP-protocol requires your system-clock to match the other system's clock.

clearly you dont have this issue , or dont know about it. So you are of no use here. n reason to keep replying unless you are trolling.

[Jade]

Probably other reasons but here's the one I've got:

 

The SSL certificates your computer uses to encrypt communicate with https websites have expiration dates -- the certificate expiration is checked against system clock. If today is 1/1/2017 and the certificate expires 1/4/2017, you could set your system time to 1/5/2017 and the certificate would be interpreted as expired. Setting your clock back before 1/5/2017, regardless of current day, would make the certificate valid, as far as your computer is aware.

[emosun]

1 minute ago, Jade said:

The SSL certificates your computer uses to encrypt communicate with https websites have expiration dates -- the certificate expiration is checked against system clock. If today is 1/1/2017 and the certificate expires 1/4/2017, you could set your system time to 1/5/2017 and the certificate would be interpreted as expired. Setting your clock back before 1/5/2017, regardless of current day, would make the certificate valid, as far as your computer is aware.

ah

well usually the clock is out of date (dead bios battery perhaps) and it'll still have the issue. maybe there's a minimum start date as well? the issue seems to occur simply by being not in sync as well .like the time and date could be correct but becuase it's not perfectly in sync with a time server the error will still occur. 

[Jade]

Just now, emosun said:

ah

well usually the clock is out of date (dead bios battery perhaps) and it'll still have the issue. maybe there's a minimum start date as well? the issue seems to occur simply by being not in sync as well .like the time and date could be correct but becuase it's not perfectly in sync with a time server the error will still occur. 

Not sure on that one. I've seen people with SSL issues because of clock desync -- often dead battery, as you said -- but I've never seen any issues caused specifically by the clock desyncing a few seconds (except in some older games).

[emosun]

Just now, Jade said:

but I've never seen any issues caused specifically by the clock desyncing a few seconds

i know that i can definitely replicate the problem by simply turning off internet time and desyncing from a time server.  Without even changing the date or time. I guess that's whats really puzzling to me. 

[Master Disaster]

I believe the issue occurs when sites use the HTTPS protocol, secure sites force a clock check against a known time server to ensure users are not trying to validate an otherwise expired SSL certificate.

 

Thats just a guess BTW, I'm actually not sure but I know a man who will know. @colonel_mortis

[emosun]

2 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

I believe the issue occurs when sites use the HTTPS protocol, secure sites force a clock check against a known time server to ensure users are not trying to validate an otherwise expired SSL certificate.

could an isp enforce this with any website , and or , do the majority of websites enforce this? 

i've experienced that when it occurs pretty much every website is inaccessable 

[Master Disaster]

3 minutes ago, emosun said:

could an isp enforce this with any website , and or , do the majority of websites enforce this? 

I assume this would be a requirement for any site running the HTTPS protocol as such sites need a signed SSL certificate, the certificate providers will likely specify that a date check must be enforced so the certificate can be validated otherwise any website with an invalid certificate can just roll the clock back on the server and never renew the certificate.

 

Like I say, I am just guessing here. If Mortis replies he will know the answer for sure, he's a god when it comes to websites, coding and all things internet.

[emosun]

2 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

Like I say, I am just guessing here. If Mortis replies he will know the answer for sure, he's a god when it comes to websites, coding and all things internet.

well it'll be neat to shed some light on.

could it perhaps have to do with time or clock setting on a router? does a router have a clock? idk I'm just guessing too. My router is kind of old so maybe it has a bad clock or has somthing to do with it perhaps.

[Master Disaster]

4 minutes ago, emosun said:

well it'll be neat to shed some light on.

could it perhaps have to do with time or clock setting on a router? does a router have a clock? idk I'm just guessing too. My router is kind of old so maybe it has a bad clock or has somthing to do with it perhaps.

FYI it also seems to be based on if you've visited the site before or not.

 

I just changed the date on my PC and visited my online banking page (secured by SSL obviously) and it sat on a white screen for about 20 seconds before loading (usually instant) but it did load fine. When I checked the certificate it said that it knew I had visited the page before which I'm assuming is why it loaded as I know I have seen this issue before too (my Hackintosh install always changes the clock on my PC by an hour).

 

Maybe it does an IP check too?

[Fetzie]

32 minutes ago, Jade said:

Not sure on that one. I've seen people with SSL issues because of clock desync -- often dead battery, as you said -- but I've never seen any issues caused specifically by the clock desyncing a few seconds (except in some older games).

Some real-time data transfer protocols are quite time-sensitive, in particular in combination with encryption. I know some people who do system administration for companies who had customers that, for example, couldn't use SMB shares because of a time-shift between client and host.

[Beef Boss]

58 minutes ago, emosun said:

#obvioustrollisobvious

 

if you don't know anything about a subject maybe don't bother commenting. pretending you did it gets you nowhere.

I have never synced my time with my computers time and I've obviously had no problems. I use different VPN and I types and I still have zero problems, so I don't know what you're trying to do here...