Refueling while an engine is running.

[Okjoek]

I've always wondered if doing this is actually dangerous. I would never try it with an automobile, but I regularly do this with the lawnmower and snowblower because one time the lawnmower's battery was dead and I didn't feel like jump starting it again and the snowblower because a snowed-in driveway (ours is very long) is much more serious a problem and to start it I either need an extention cord or I have to use the dreaded pull cord ignition.

 

I'm just curious because I was under the impression that causing a disaster in this way is highly improbable.

[AnonymousGuy]

I do it every time with my car.  So does my friend.  No issues.

[The Sloth]

3 minutes ago, AnonymousGuy said:

I do it every time with my car.  So does my friend.  No issues.

there is an issue

 

[ProjectBox153]

My dad did it all the time with his vehicles. No problems. Should this be in Off Topic?

[Zusafek]

One spark and you could have a disaster. When I used to drive long haul semi's, watched a lady refill her car fuel tank while the engine was running. 10 seconds in and she answers her phone.  Poor...instant fireball at the pump 

 

I'd avoid it at all costs. 

[Okjoek]

1 minute ago, Jamiec1130 said:

My dad did it all the time with his vehicles. No problems. Should this be in Off Topic?

Idk, i thought it was somewhat tech related, just not pc.

[The Sloth]

1 minute ago, Okjoek said:

Idk, i thought it was somewhat tech related, just not pc.

it is tech related 

[Okjoek]

3 minutes ago, Zusafek said:

One spark and you could have a disaster. When I used to drive long haul semi's, watched a lady refill her car fuel tank while the engine was running. 10 seconds in and she answers her phone.  Poor...instant fireball at the pump 

 

I'd avoid it at all costs. 

I thought mythbusters busted the cellphone myth, but maybe the car running wasnt a factor, idr.

[The Sloth]

Just now, Okjoek said:

I thought mythbusters busted the cellphone myth, but maybe the car running wasnt a factor, idr.

.... no, look at how a combustion engine works, OP was talking how the lady was distracted. 

[AnonymousGuy]

Just now, Okjoek said:

I thought mythbusters busted the cellphone myth, but maybe the car running wasnt a factor, idr.

They did.  It's probably something that *can* happen as a 1:100000 chance, but so can getting hit by a meteor or dying in a car crash on the awy to a gas station.

 

Wouldn't surprise me if the "turn engine off" is a carryover from the days of distributors where there actually was a spark in the engine bay, and is irrelevant nowadays.

[Zyndo]

4 minutes ago, Okjoek said:

I've always wondered if doing this is actually dangerous. I would never try it with an automobile, but I regularly do this with the lawnmower and snowblower because one time the lawnmower's battery was dead and I didn't feel like jump starting it again and the snowblower because a snowed-in driveway (ours is very long) is much more serious a problem and to start it I either need an extention cord or I have to use the dreaded pull cord ignition.

 

I'm just curious because I was under the impression that causing a disaster in this way is highly improbable.

filling up an internal combustion engine with, combustible fuel, while its running is 99.999999999% of the time safe (you can throw on a whole lot more 9's to that if you want). However, it DOES open up yourself to a potential danger which has very severe repercussions. so if you do it, odds are incredibly high that nothing bad will happen.... but if something bad DOES happen, something very very bad is going to happen... so why not just turn off your engine? not like it has to stay running or anything lol. the problem becomes especially horrible if one of these fires starts at a gas station.

 

I mean if you were filling up your lawn mower with a jerry can while it was running and it caught fire..... you would have a small fire, maybe scare you a bit, burn some of your grass, and absolute worst case scenario MAYBE burn your house down if you had enough fuel in the can and you didn't react correctly to the fire. take that same scenario to a gas station and you're looking at an uncontrollable fire which burns for hours and has the risk of exploding and killing a great many people in addition to the massive amount of property damage.

 

So its not that filling up a tank while its running is inherently dangerous or anything, but why open yourself up to the risk when its so easy to avoid and the results can be so disastrous?

 

1 minute ago, AnonymousGuy said:

Wouldn't surprise me if the "turn engine off" is a carryover from the days of distributors where there actually was a spark in the engine bay, and is irrelevant nowadays.

engines still spark all the time (incredibly frequently actually). sparkplugs are responsible for the sparks which ignite the fuel and drive the engine... your car wouldn't work without sparks. they're definitely still there.

 

[Zyndo]

5 minutes ago, nerdslayer1 said:

.... no, look at how a combustion engine works, OP was talking how the lady was distracted. 

and if she had been paying closer attention, do you suppose she could have stopped the fire with her mind powers?

[The Sloth]

Just now, Zyndo said:

and if she had been paying closer attention, do you suppose she could have stopped the fire with her mind powers?

nope by being smart 

[Underi]

Wouldn't ever even try, although I can't even do it since I need my keys to open the cap...

[TheRandomness]

-Thread moved to Off Topic.

3 minutes ago, Underi said:

Wouldn't ever even try, although I can't even do it since I need my keys to open the cap...

This should be a thing on every car.

[Windows7ge]

All it takes is something with a hot enough surface or exhaust coming from the tail pipe for the fumes to go up in flames. The ignition point of gasoline is 247–280 °C (477–536 °F) at one atmosphere of pressure. If a small invisible flame shoots out the tailpipe it'll do.

[Oshino Shinobu]

Kind of depends on the situation, but in general it's best not to. On something like a motorcycle where the fuel tank is above the engine and electrical are all close by, it's really not a good idea as a little spill of fuel could catch fire if it hits the wrong spot. Really, you shouldn't even have the ignition on as if there's exposed wire with current flowing through it, a tiny spark from that could catch the fuel on fire. 

 

I can't see any reason to leave the engine running when refuelling, it's not like it's going to save you much/any time. I also think it may actually be illegal to refuel with the engine running here in the UK (at a refuelling station, you can do what you want at home and such)

 

EDIT: Obviously starting issues could be a reason to leave the engine running, but really you should try to fix the issue before using the vehicle anyway. 

[Okjoek]

44 minutes ago, Zyndo said:

filling up an internal combustion engine with, combustible fuel, while its running is 99.999999999% of the time safe (you can throw on a whole lot more 9's to that if you want). However, it DOES open up yourself to a potential danger which has very severe repercussions. so if you do it, odds are incredibly high that nothing bad will happen.... but if something bad DOES happen, something very very bad is going to happen... so why not just turn off your engine? not like it has to stay running or anything lol. the problem becomes especially horrible if one of these fires starts at a gas station.

 

I mean if you were filling up your lawn mower with a jerry can while it was running and it caught fire..... you would have a small fire, maybe scare you a bit, burn some of your grass, and absolute worst case scenario MAYBE burn your house down if you had enough fuel in the can and you didn't react correctly to the fire. take that same scenario to a gas station and you're looking at an uncontrollable fire which burns for hours and has the risk of exploding and killing a great many people in addition to the massive amount of property damage.

 

So its not that filling up a tank while its running is inherently dangerous or anything, but why open yourself up to the risk when its so easy to avoid and the results can be so disastrous?

 

engines still spark all the time (incredibly frequently actually). sparkplugs are responsible for the sparks which ignite the fuel and drive the engine... your car wouldn't work without sparks. they're definitely still there.

 

In my instance with a snowblower/lawnmower I'd turn the machine off and turn the fuel flow knobs to the closed position and try to smother the flames with snow, or my shoes/shirt in the case of the lawnmower. Unlike a gas station the only fuel that's not in the machine is in a little red can that's got a shutoff when this cylinder surrounding the outflow isn't pushed down.

 

This is pretty close to what it looks like:

 

If it were up to me though we'd have switched to all electric equipment though. I just feel that it's a more versatile fuel source in that you can make it yourself in many ways including by gasoline whereas in an emergency like a fuel crisis or massive power outage I can't just make my own petrol.

 

Edit: by "we" I mean my household, sorry

[Yoinkerman]

2 things:

 

Someone always wins the lottery

 

What do you think happens in your wiring harnesses and electronic sensors, wiper relays, wiper motors, etc?  Current flow, which causes sparks.

[vetali]

1 hour ago, Okjoek said:

I've always wondered if doing this is actually dangerous. I would never try it with an automobile, but I regularly do this with the lawnmower and snowblower because one time the lawnmower's battery was dead and I didn't feel like jump starting it again and the snowblower because a snowed-in driveway (ours is very long) is much more serious a problem and to start it I either need an extention cord or I have to use the dreaded pull cord ignition.

 

I'm just curious because I was under the impression that causing a disaster in this way is highly improbable.

The reason you aren't supposed to fuel while your car is running is because there is a brushed electric motor submerged in gasoline. Every time the brush crosses over a commutator bar it can create a powerful arc. Your tank has a venting system where when you are filling up, the fuel you are pumping in pushes out the fuel vapors into whats called a charcoal canister which is a part of the EVAP system. It also recirculates some vapors near the top of the nozzle. What can happen is while you are pumping, air can be forced into the tank through a venturi effect at the nozzle. When your tank has air introduced into it can become volatile with the fuel pump. 

 

In Washington it is illegal to fuel a car while running. There are also other risks, but thats more involves improper pumping methods, like going past the first shutoff click at the pump. You can force fuel into your charcoal canister, which is made easier by having the engine running while fueling because there can be a vacuum on it from the purge valve being open. If you really keep forcing fuel into there it can stall your car and prevent it from being started due to flooding the engine out. 

[yathis]

5 hours ago, Okjoek said:

I've always wondered if doing this is actually dangerous. I would never try it with an automobile, but I regularly do this with the lawnmower and snowblower because one time the lawnmower's battery was dead and I didn't feel like jump starting it again and the snowblower because a snowed-in driveway (ours is very long) is much more serious a problem and to start it I either need an extention cord or I have to use the dreaded pull cord ignition.

 

I'm just curious because I was under the impression that causing a disaster in this way is highly improbable.

The pump manufacturers take the Stupid Factor into consideration, as there are many stupid fucks out there in the world. But it would be generally safe but it is not recommended, neither is smoking while refueling.

 

Heck I even leave my truck running when I see stupid little signs that tell me what to do "Please Turn Off Engine" or "Air Intake - Turn off Engine" and I say fuck that, I either want my a/c running or my heat running. Its fucking stupid what property owners want you to do.

[JohnVHSTapes]

When it's cold out I will keep the engine running so I can keep the heater going if I have a passenger.