New KoTOR NOT in Development

[PocketNerd]

51 minutes ago, N3v3r3nding_N3wb said:

That's like saying that calling out the MSM on their bias is toxic. Games journalism has become corrupt in lots of ways, and it's nice to see someone who isn't.

Calling out biased opinions is fine, and a healthy means of discussion when not used to attack individuals. Saying someone isn't "real" because they don't share your viewpoint or don't conduct themselves in a way that you approve of (which is what the person I quoted was doing) is toxic and does nothing to further the discussion.

[N3v3r3nding_N3wb]

14 minutes ago, PocketNerd said:

Calling out biased opinions is fine, and a healthy means of discussion when not used to attack individuals. Saying someone isn't "real" because they don't share your viewpoint or don't conduct themselves in a way that you approve of (which is what the person I quoted was doing) is toxic and does nothing to further the discussion.

I may be giving him too much credit, but I read it as meaning unbiased/uncorrupt, or really for the people he is writing for, not necessarily as that the OP was defaming or otherwise insulting their accomplishments/qualifications.

[PocketNerd]

17 minutes ago, N3v3r3nding_N3wb said:

I may be giving him too much credit, but I read it as meaning unbiased/uncorrupt, or really for the people he is writing for, not necessarily as that the OP was defaming or otherwise insulting their accomplishments/qualifications.

"Name gaming journalists besides him that actually do research, cites sources, and follows ethics. The majority just copy+paste whatever the first person to report a topic says and their unbiased reporting oozes bias and personal opinions. Granted, it isn't exclusive to gaming, but it is most noticeable in that industry."

That was the response to me earlier in the thread. The bold being the part I take the most issue with. Even if it is true, call them out on their behavior, don't go saying that they are not "real"

[GeekJump]

1 hour ago, ElfFriend said:

Maybe that's for the best, if it never exists then it can't flop and disappoint all of us. Besides I'd prefer this to be released first anyway: http://www.apeirongame.com/

From the site: 

Quote

Is this legal? We believe so.

The stuff they showed off looks promising for a passion project. Hopefully they can get it completed and available for download before Disney pulls a Nintendo.

[Beskamir]

Just now, GeekJump said:

From the site: 

The stuff they showed off looks promising for a passion project. Hopefully they can get it completed and available for download before Disney pulls a Nintendo.

Well you'll still need the game to play it so it's basically a "mod" but in a new engine.

[dalekphalm]

2 hours ago, suicidalfranco said:

unless that human soldier is a madalorian, the real bane to jedis and sith 

Let's be clear, only the very elite of the Mandalorian warriors can go toe to toe with a competent Jedi.

 

And one of the elite ones, such as Ep3 era Anakin or Obi-Wan or Mace Windu or any of them? Not unless they surprised them with an ambush, etc.

 

All the epic old Mandalorians who could match Jedi Masters are pretty much now delegated to being non-Canon.

[Misanthrope]

5 hours ago, Humbug said:

that would probably be 2 years work, I would rather they work on original content rather than remasters. Although KOTOR is probably my favourite game ever.

Have you seen the latest mass effect? No I think they'd botch a new KOTOR I rather get a makeover of the old one but it's not like it's unplayable, my post was more of a statement about how little we should trust Bioware with projects at this point.

[GeekJump]

29 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

Have you seen the latest mass effect? No I think they'd botch a new KOTOR I rather get a makeover of the old one but it's not like it's unplayable, my post was more of a statement about how little we should trust Bioware with projects at this point.

ME:A was made my the C-team bioware office. The main office (A-team) and Austin (B team) are both seasoned developers. I think this was that office's first major game - the rest of their work was support for the other offices. And, if the rumors are to be believed, EA was actually the one saying "hey guys, if you need more time to polish we are okay with it".

 

I dipped my toes into TOR around the time of the Knights of the Fallen Empire expansion and actually liked it a lot (and I normally hate MMOs). So I trust Austin if they make an RPG of it.

sidenote: I mentioned earlier or in another thread Austin made the OG Kotor, I was mistaken. They worked on the MMO

[nephilim2]

Bummer. KOTOR was such a good game, but it does need a facelift. Oh well, can still pray for Diablo II HD (please Blizzard?)

[Jito463]

11 hours ago, nephilim2 said:

Oh well, can still pray for Diablo II HD (please Blizzard?)

Diablo II HD, now with forced online connectivity!  Yeah, I can see it now.  No thanks, I'd rather replay the original Diablo 1/2 and/or Torchlight 1/2.

 

Same with a remaster of KotOR, they'd probably screw it up while trying to appeal to a "broader base".  It's not like the original graphics are horrible.  Then again, i grew up on such systems as the Commodore 64, Atari 2600, Intellivision, etc.  Low quality graphics mean nothing to me if the game is good.

[dalekphalm]

1 minute ago, Jito463 said:

Diablo II HD, now with forced online connectivity!  Yeah, I can see it now.  No thanks, I'd rather replay the original Diablo 1/2 and/or Torchlight 1/2.

 

Same with a remaster of KotOR, they'd probably screw it up while trying to appeal to a "broader base".  It's not like the original graphics are horrible.  Then again, i grew up on such systems as the Commodore 64, Atari 2600, Intellivision, etc.  Low quality graphics mean nothing to me if the game is good.

KOTOR 1 (and to a lesser degree, KOTOR 2) has awful graphics - and this is coming from someone who loves that game and has replayed it relatively recently on Windows 10.

[Jito463]

Just now, dalekphalm said:

KOTOR 1 (and to a lesser degree, KOTOR 2) has awful graphics - and this is coming from someone who loves that game and has replayed it relatively recently on Windows 10.

We obviously have very different definitions of "awful".

 

Late 80's/early 90's era graphics

 

 

KotOR graphics

 

 

You're right, that looks absolutely attrocious! /sarc

 

I didn't say it was high definition or anything, but that looks pretty good to me, considering it's age.

[dalekphalm]

Just now, Jito463 said:

We obviously have very different definitions of "awful".

 

Late 80's/early 90's era graphics

 

-snip-

 

KotOR graphics

 

-snip-

 

You're right, that looks absolutely attrocious! /sarc

 

I didn't say it was high definition or anything, but that looks pretty good to me, considering it's age.

All graphics are subjective to one degree or another.

 

One could counter that your first image is "better" graphics because it has a very specific "non-realistic" art style, that is interestingly retro.

 

Whereas KOTOR had your typical "as realistic as graphics can reasonably achieve with today's Engine tech" graphics.

 

Some art styles tend to be more "timeless" (8-bit retro style, for example), and others age poorly. KOTOR's graphics, in my opinion, aged poorly.

 

Does it mean the game isn't fun? Or that I won't play it again? Hell no. I'm thinking about doing another playthrough as we speak (it's been too long).

[Jito463]

1 minute ago, dalekphalm said:

KOTOR's graphics, in my opinion, aged poorly.

We'll have to agree to disagree, then.  I just don't accept that premise as true.

[dalekphalm]

9 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

We'll have to agree to disagree, then.  I just don't accept that premise as true.

I... don't know how to respond to that. For you, you may think and hold whatever subjective opinion you'd like. Your opinion that KOTOR graphics have aged well is totally fine. My opinion is the opposite. I think it's aged poorly. Not totally garbage, by any stretch, but a facelift could really do the game some good - keep the basic mechanics and gameplay the exact same, and do a graphics overhaul - Also fix the damn turret missions (Either ditch them entirely, or give them better controls). Those were terrible in an otherwise near perfect game.

 

Diablo 2, which was mentioned in this thread earlier, is an example of an art style that I think is more timeless.

[Jito463]

2 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

I... don't know how to respond to that. For you, you may think and hold whatever subjective opinion you'd like. Your opinion that KOTOR graphics have aged well is totally fine. My opinion is the opposite. I think it's aged poorly. Not totally garbage, by any stretch, but a facelift could really do the game some good - keep the basic mechanics and gameplay the exact same, and do a graphics overhaul - Also fix the damn turret missions (Either ditch them entirely, or give them better controls). Those were terrible in an otherwise near perfect game.

 

Diablo 2, which was mentioned in this thread earlier, is an example of an art style that I think is more timeless.

I thought it was understood that we were both simply stating our opinions.  I do, however, have to take you to task for one thing.  Here you say it's "not totally garbage" graphics, but that contrasts directly with your previous opinion that it has "awful" graphics.

 

25 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

KOTOR 1 (and to a lesser degree, KOTOR 2) has awful graphics - and this is coming from someone who loves that game and has replayed it relatively recently on Windows 10.

Saying it has "awful" graphics sounds awfully similar to saying the graphics are "garbage".  To me, it sounds like you're backtracking on your previous statement.

 

I don't disagree that it could use prettier graphics (even if I don't require them, it doesn't mean I don't like them), but my point is that it looks good even as is, when you consider the age of the game.  My main concern comes from previous experience with remasters, where the developers decided to "update" other parts of the game, not just the graphics.

[dalekphalm]

36 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

I thought it was understood that we were both simply stating our opinions.  I do, however, have to take you to task for one thing.  Here you say it's "not totally garbage" graphics, but that contrasts directly with your previous opinion that it has "awful" graphics.

 

Saying it has "awful" graphics sounds awfully similar to saying the graphics are "garbage".  To me, it sounds like you're backtracking on your previous statement.

 

I don't disagree that it could use prettier graphics (even if I don't require them, it doesn't mean I don't like them), but my point is that it looks good even as is, when you consider the age of the game.  My main concern comes from previous experience with remasters, where the developers decided to "update" other parts of the game, not just the graphics.

Well, I'll let you in on a secret, when you're using terms like awful and garbage, these terms are not exactly precise.

 

To me, awful is a step above total garbage. Not sure about you though.

 

So by saying "not totally garbage", I simply mean they are not the worst thing I've ever seen. They were functional, and good looking at the time. Now, not so much. They're pretty awful by today's standards.

 

So, call me out if you wish, but so we're clear, in my personal view, awful and garbage are not necessarily equal descriptors. You can say I'm backpedalling all you want. I do not agree with your assessment.

 

You be you though.

 

Now, let's get back on topic, shall we

 

As for your last point, I agree. HD Remasters are a big mixed bag. Some have been pretty kickass (Homeworld remastered using the Homeworld 2 control scheme and engine updated with modern effects? AWESOME), whereas other remasters (Fable 1, etc), not so good.

[GeekJump]

1 hour ago, dalekphalm said:

KOTOR 1 (and to a lesser degree, KOTOR 2) has awful graphics - and this is coming from someone who loves that game and has replayed it relatively recently on Windows 10.

 

1 hour ago, Jito463 said:

We obviously have very different definitions of "awful".

 

Late 80's/early 90's era graphics

 

KotOR graphics

 

You're right, that looks absolutely attrocious! /sarc

 

I didn't say it was high definition or anything, but that looks pretty good to me, considering it's age.

I know you already closed the topic but I wanted to add on :3. As probably both you did, I played KOTOR 1 and 2 probably 5 times each. The graphics (IMO) actually hold up well. All my previous play throughs were on the Xbox but I recently played it on PC (think I got it during the last steam sale). I was surprised how nice it looked. I honestly was afraid it would be a case of going back to a beloved game and having it ruin your fond memories. Then again...I might have downloaded a HD mod...shit there goes my argument lol

 

I wouldn't want a remaster of this. It's good as it is. If anything I would want a complete remake from the ground up - not just a HD reskin. Maybe some added content and features.

[dalekphalm]

12 minutes ago, GeekJump said:

 

I know you already closed the topic but I wanted to add on :3. As probably both you did, I played KOTOR 1 and 2 probably 5 times each. The graphics (IMO) actually hold up well. All my previous play throughs were on the Xbox but I recently played it on PC (think I got it during the last steam sale). I was surprised how nice it looked. I honestly was afraid it would be a case of going back to a beloved game and having it ruin your fond memories. Then again...I might have downloaded a HD mod...shit there goes my argument lol

 

I wouldn't want a remaster of this. It's good as it is. If anything I would want a complete remake from the ground up - not just a HD reskin. Maybe some added content and features.

I think KOTOR could most do with an HD Texture Pack, along with modern particle effects, etc. The models themselves are serviceable.

 

I've played them wayyy more than 5 times. I've probably replayed KOTOR 1 at least a dozen times over the years.

 

KOTOR 2 would benefit most from a total remake. But ultimately, the difference between a Remaster and a Remake is a vague distinction. KOTOR 2 was unfinished when it was released, with a ton of content cut - even an entire "map" that was later re-added via the Sith Lord community patch.

[suits]

[GeekJump]

15 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

I think KOTOR could most do with an HD Texture Pack, along with modern particle effects, etc. The models themselves are serviceable.

 

I've played them wayyy more than 5 times. I've probably replayed KOTOR 1 at least a dozen times over the years.

 

KOTOR 2 would benefit most from a total remake. But ultimately, the difference between a Remaster and a Remake is a vague distinction. KOTOR 2 was unfinished when it was released, with a ton of content cut - even an entire "map" that was later re-added via the Sith Lord community patch.

Ahh HD texture packs look okay but, on a game this old, it wouldn't help much. I checked my game and I do have a HD mod. It makes it look better but, since it already exists, Bioware would just be wasting their time and annoying fans if they try to charge for it *cough* Skyrim remaster *cough*.

 

Your comment made me look up the community patch and, after going down that rabbit hole, at what happens to the characters in KOTOR. I forgot that TOR is part of the KOTOR universe and actually ties up some of the major questions of one and two. So now idk what they could do for KOTOR 3 if it was a thing. Unless it's a retelling.

[dalekphalm]

On 2017-04-14 at 0:24 PM, GeekJump said:

Ahh HD texture packs look okay but, on a game this old, it wouldn't help much. I checked my game and I do have a HD mod. It makes it look better but, since it already exists, Bioware would just be wasting their time and annoying fans if they try to charge for it *cough* Skyrim remaster *cough*.

 

Your comment made me look up the community patch and, after going down that rabbit hole, at what happens to the characters in KOTOR. I forgot that TOR is part of the KOTOR universe and actually ties up some of the major questions of one and two. So now idk what they could do for KOTOR 3 if it was a thing. Unless it's a retelling.

I'd be on board 100% for a retelling for a proper Kotor 3. I know SWTOR is enough for some players, but I'm not an mmo fan in general.

 

Please bioware, give me a proper new KOTOR single player rpg!