RGB Water? (Idea)

[Techstorm970]

23 hours ago, Seamonster420 said:

A simpler solution might be some sort of iridescent or polarized molecule that changes color when exposed to different frequencies of non-visible light. With some of the breakthroughs in materials science these days I wouldn't be surprised if that's actually made possible at some point in the near future.

If we can create an actual lightsaber (yes, scientists have pulled that off), then we can do this. 

[W-L]

On 3/11/2017 at 5:43 PM, PandaOnTech said:

imagine an rgb light the size of a large molecule. its own battery power, a light, and a tiny chip for control. you mix it with water, and the way you control it is the molecules pass through a special fitting in your watercooling loop that tells the chip what to do. every light molecule communicates with others in the tube its in to coordinate a lighting style. this can include effects like light arrows flowing in the direction of the water flow, rgb rainbow, or a color spectrum, breathing effect, strobe etc. since the lights are so small the battery lasts years. Would this be possible?

 

After writing this I realized if the molecules were to talk to eachother, they would probably be talking to other molecules in the wrong parts of the loop. To maybe prevent this, what if every fitting was like a checkpoint, and molecules that passed through could only talk to other molecules that pass through?

 

I know computer chips small enough to be on a molecular level are far out from now, but could they exist? and if they ever do exist could this rgb water thing happen?

Having the fluid itself create light and change color would be a much more complicated aspect but there are fluids that scatter and reflect light which can be used in conjunction with a systems LED's to have it seem to glow or change color with the system. 

 

-Moved to Liquid and Exotic Cooling- 

[PandaOnTech]

12 hours ago, W-L said:

Having the fluid itself create light and change color would be a much more complicated aspect but there are fluids that scatter and reflect light which can be used in conjunction with a systems LED's to have it seem to glow or change color with the system. 

 

-Moved to Liquid and Exotic Cooling- 

Is it possible to have just enough water in the loop for it to splash around and make waves in the tubes, or would that not cool the cpu enough? I just think having reflective water would look very similar to just dying the water.

 

Thanks for the move.

[W-L]

26 minutes ago, PandaOnTech said:

Is it possible to have just enough water in the loop for it to splash around and make waves in the tubes, or would that not cool the cpu enough? I just think having reflective water would look very similar to just dying the water.

 

Thanks for the move.

You would run into issues with water noise and the pump hitting air pockets but those type of coolants exist already Mayhem's has their Aurora 2 lineup which has that swirl or sparkle effect. However that fluid is not designed for long term use even after the second iteration which has helped it a bit than the previous version. 

 

 

[PandaOnTech]

22 hours ago, W-L said:

You would run into issues with water noise and the pump hitting air pockets but those type of coolants exist already Mayhem's has their Aurora 2 lineup which has that swirl or sparkle effect. However that fluid is not designed for long term use even after the second iteration which has helped it a bit than the previous version. 

 

 

Thats actually exactly the effect I was thinking of. Why would it not work long term though?

[W-L]

2 hours ago, PandaOnTech said:

Thats actually exactly the effect I was thinking of. Why would it not work long term though?

The particles used for the flow effect don't stay in suspension and readily settle out, espically if there are areas of low flow and can clog easily. This also happens with fluids like their pastel but to a much lesser degree and they don't readily clog with the smaller particles. Some have tried using it for a long term system but from what I've heard most are only able to get out about 6 months out of it. 

[PandaOnTech]

On 3/14/2017 at 2:09 PM, W-L said:

The particles used for the flow effect don't stay in suspension and readily settle out, espically if there are areas of low flow and can clog easily. This also happens with fluids like their pastel but to a much lesser degree and they don't readily clog with the smaller particles. Some have tried using it for a long term system but from what I've heard most are only able to get out about 6 months out of it. 

is there a way to widen the tubes inside the blocks a little bit, and push the water through faster to prevent clogs? Also is there any additives that would prevent clogging, so that only the pretty effect goes away?

[W-L]

3 hours ago, PandaOnTech said:

is there a way to widen the tubes inside the blocks a little bit, and push the water through faster to prevent clogs? Also is there any additives that would prevent clogging, so that only the pretty effect goes away?

It's not the tubes but the fins if you mill them out with a large endmill you lose the surface area and the performance for cooling this is how they used to do with the older blocks where the channels between fins were around 1/8" apart. 

 

There isn't much to prevent physically clogging from the nanoparticles in the fluid picking up junk in the loop, other than clean it out really well before assembly and it will still leave a little here and there. It's basically the natural degradation or aging of the fluid, so it's not really avoidable. 

[Drak3]

On 3/11/2017 at 4:00 PM, dizmo said:

By the time that happens, why on earth would you have a computer the size of what we have now?
You wouldn't. Plain and simple.

Why do we have computers that are the same size as they were in 2001, when we could achieve that performance is substantially smaller form factors?

Because we can achieve far more powerful systems by packing the same space with the more powerful tech.

 

There will never be a point where a mobile system, such as a phone or laptop, can ever rival a desktop of the same technological advancement, and neither will rival a multiple node server or super computer. And developers will always try to utilize that technology to further their software's performance, in one way or another.

[0ld_Chicken]

4 hours ago, PandaOnTech said:

is there a way to widen the tubes inside the blocks a little bit, and push the water through faster to prevent clogs? Also is there any additives that would prevent clogging, so that only the pretty effect goes away?

in my experience I only noticed the effect went away, I never saw any increased temps or serious clogging to the point of block restriction.  I've ran it a few times and have pretty much given up on it now and probably won't be using it in my loop since I change it up recently.  Though they are up to version 4 now actually @W-L which to me, seems noticably better than v2 was.  Particles seemed smaller and ligher, It actually did pretty decent with my giant table of rads and obscene amount of fittings.  I really ought to set up a more basic loop so I can try it out again without having tons of 90's dead spots.  I'm always over-complicating things and still hoping for success 

Spoiler

 

Aurora combined with RGB fittings or something like that could be really cool, and Mayhem's is making it better all the time 

 

[PandaOnTech]

1 hour ago, 0ld_Chicken said:

in my experience I only noticed the effect went away, I never saw any increased temps or serious clogging to the point of block restriction.  I've ran it a few times and have pretty much given up on it now and probably won't be using it in my loop since I change it up recently.  Though they are up to version 4 now actually @W-L which to me, seems noticably better than v2 was.  Particles seemed smaller and ligher, It actually did pretty decent with my giant table of rads and obscene amount of fittings.  I really ought to set up a more basic loop so I can try it out again without having tons of 90's dead spots.  I'm always over-complicating things and still hoping for success 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Aurora combined with RGB fittings or something like that could be really cool, and Mayhem's is making it better all the time 

 

must be a nightmare to dust that thing out... Anyways, when the Aurora effect fades, with the blue version for example, does it just become a blue liquid, similar in looks to a deep blue pastel?

[0ld_Chicken]

Not as opaque as pastel, more like x1 but a little darker blue. Like a mix of these two blues, ignoring the particles in the first picture.  I really thought I had a picture of the blue aurora after falling out but I can't seem to find it.

[W-L]

1 minute ago, 0ld_Chicken said:

Not as opaque as pastel, more like x1 but a little darker blue. Like a mix of these two blues, ignoring the particles in the first picture.  I really thought I had a picture of the blue aurora after falling out but I can't seem to find it.

I've always wondered where do the particles go, do they just collect on surfaces of the loop and settle out or just kind of disappear into the fluid?

[PandaOnTech]

3 minutes ago, W-L said:

I've always wondered where do the particles go, do they just collect on surfaces of the loop and settle out or just kind of disappear into the fluid?

i would imagine the gunk that collects in your loop are those particles, right?

[0ld_Chicken]

2 minutes ago, W-L said:

I've always wondered where do the particles go, do they just collect on surfaces of the loop and settle out or just kind of disappear into the fluid?

They are definitely still all there, they settle just about everywhere!  There is usually a lot in the rads, probably mostly the end tanks where there is probably a few spots with low flow.  I've tried even shaking the entire loop to try and "re-suspend" them but it didn't last very long.  That was the v2 though, the only time i used v4 the loop was too heavy in the table to try and shake it   Introducing a bit of air into the loop can also help kick them up.  Something about the aeration really disturbs the particles.

 

I am seriously thinking about making a couple loop changes to my current loop and dropping the last liter of aurora I have in there.  That stuff is seriously addicting

 

[W-L]

2 minutes ago, 0ld_Chicken said:

They are definitely still all there, they settle just about everywhere!  There is usually a lot in the rads, probably mostly the end tanks where there is probably a few spots with low flow.  I've tried even shaking the entire loop to try and "re-suspend" them but it didn't last very long.  That was the v2 though, the only time i used v4 the loop was too heavy in the table to try and shake it   Introducing a bit of air into the loop can also help kick them up.  Something about the aeration really disturbs the particles.

 

I am seriously thinking about making a couple loop changes to my current loop and dropping the last liter of aurora I have in there.  That stuff is seriously addicting

 

I guess it's time to add in an air bubblier like in an aquarium  

 

7 minutes ago, PandaOnTech said:

i would imagine the gunk that collects in your loop are those particles, right?

Yes, they apparently get stuck in nooks and crannies which is why it looses it's effect. 

[0ld_Chicken]

1 hour ago, W-L said:

I guess it's time to add in an air bubblier like in an aquarium  

maybe... that and a bunch of auto air vents on the rads to help bleed them out.  Hmmmm   I already tried adding qdc's to remove the pc from the table AND a set to reverse the flow of the loop hoping it would help kick up a lot of particles.  It did help but definitely didn't bring things back to new or anywhere close to it

[RadiatingLight]

9 hours ago, Drak3 said:

Why do we have computers that are the same size as they were in 2001, when we could achieve that performance is substantially smaller form factors?

Because we can achieve far more powerful systems by packing the same space with the more powerful tech.

 

There will never be a point where a mobile system, such as a phone or laptop, can ever rival a desktop of the same technological advancement, and neither will rival a multiple node server or super computer. And developers will always try to utilize that technology to further their software's performance, in one way or another.

Woah there. I'm almost sure you're wrong.

 

The needs of the average user have gone up significantly slower than the performance of processors, so I could totally see stuff like the intel NUC (but cheaper) replacing PCs for mainstream users

 

for gamers:

CPUs and GPUs have gotten WAY more efficient over the years, and in 10 years or so, I wouldn't be surprised if low-mid tier GPUs (same position in the stack as GTX 1050Ti, GTX 1060, RX 470, etc.) will be completely fanless, and the AIB cards will advertise INCREDIBLE cooling performance with a single 90mm fan or something.
 

high end GPUs will also get much more efficient, and so will CPUs. already, today, a CPU with a 91W TDP (7700K) and something like a GTX 1080Ti can be crammed into a super small form factor case. when efficiency gets better, we will be able to make even smaller cases with smaller coolers and lower temps.

 

a high end phone can sometimes beat out a high end laptop. (Basically every modern phone ever VS apple's MacBook (the one with a single USB C port))

 

maybe in the next 10 years your statement will hold true, but not forever.

[Drak3]

6 hours ago, RadiatingLight said:

average user

6 hours ago, RadiatingLight said:

mainstream users

Guess what we aren't. And guess what the average desktop user is becoming.

 

6 hours ago, RadiatingLight said:

CPUs and GPUs have gotten WAY more efficient over the years, and in 10 years or so, I wouldn't be surprised if low-mid tier GPUs (same position in the stack as GTX 1050Ti, GTX 1060, RX 470, etc.) will be completely fanless, and the AIB cards will advertise INCREDIBLE cooling performance with a single 90mm fan or something.

We'll just be back to where we where in the days of the GT 210, except our crawl back in that direction is only with low end cards. High end cards are getting beefier and beefier coolers, the chip sizes have gone down somewhat, but that's stagnating.

 

6 hours ago, RadiatingLight said:

a high end phone can sometimes beat out a high end laptop. (Basically every modern phone ever VS apple's MacBook (the one with a single USB C port))

That's an issue of bad design and bad benchmarking. Try video editing on a phone. Then, try on a desktop.

 

6 hours ago, RadiatingLight said:

maybe in the next 10 years your statement will hold true, but not forever.

People have been arguing your stance for years, and they have, and always will be, wrong. Software demands increase, mobile platforms are always limited based on power and cooling.

[RadiatingLight]

4 hours ago, Drak3 said:

Guess what we aren't. And guess what the average desktop user is becoming.

 

We'll just be back to where we where in the days of the GT 210, except our crawl back in that direction is only with low end cards. High end cards are getting beefier and beefier coolers, the chip sizes have gone down somewhat, but that's stagnating.

 

That's an issue of bad design and bad benchmarking. Try video editing on a phone. Then, try on a desktop.

 

People have been arguing your stance for years, and they have, and always will be, wrong. Software demands increase, mobile platforms are always limited based on power and cooling.

Look at NVidia pascal.

the 980 vs 1080's power efficiency is a solid jump. even in the same '80' tier.

 

this will continue, and when halo level graphics cards only need a single 6-pin (or equivalent) then we can cram them into small form factors setups with no problem.

[PandaOnTech]

On 3/18/2017 at 5:46 PM, 0ld_Chicken said:

maybe... that and a bunch of auto air vents on the rads to help bleed them out.  Hmmmm   I already tried adding qdc's to remove the pc from the table AND a set to reverse the flow of the loop hoping it would help kick up a lot of particles.  It did help but definitely didn't bring things back to new or anywhere close to it

could you put a bubbler in the res, then put strainers on all the  ports to that air doesnt get in the loop? If the particles are always agitated in the res would they still settle in the rads?

[andy0842]

On 3/12/2017 at 1:51 PM, PandaOnTech said:

that would produce solid color though, right? All of your points are valid.

 

1. They would be coated in a waterproof material. Like the waterproof hard drive video Linus did.

2. Researchers are already looking to improve batteries by adding atom-sized tunnels. Quote: "Battery researchers seeking improved electrode materials have focused on ‘tunneled’ structures that make it easier for charge-carrying ions to move in and out of the electrode." So atomic-level batteries may not be super far off?

3. On-board wifi. And I don't doubt that much processing power would be needed. if the nano machines communicate with eachother and also communicate with a cpu, there wouldn't be much that a modern cpu couldn't handle. On top of that, by the time chips small enough for this exist, the cpus out then will handle it even easier. 

4. True. But rgb lights in a regular case now don't produce much heat. Regular RGB Lights for your case produce anywhere from 1-8w of heat. So on a molecular level, probably a lot less. Since theres a lot more lights however, It's probably reasonable to put a strip of RGB into a watercooling tube and call it about the same? *about* is a key word here.

 

Do you know how to convert Watts into Celsius? I don't.

Heat capacity of water (heat capacity means the required amount of energy to increase the temperature of 1 gram of material by 1 degree celsius) is only 4.2 J. 1 watt is 1 joule per sec.

If you want to have that arrow effect or whatever else you want to do in your reservoir say, the number of rgb molecules and the number of water molecules would be about the same so 1:1 ratio since you want the rgb molecules spread out evenly.

In a 250mL reservoir, there will be 125mL of water therefore 125g of water and 125 g of the rgb molecule (this is assuming 1g of molecule is about 1 mL in volume just like water). If we assume that 125g/mol for the rgb molecule since it will be containing various things inside (1 mol of iron is about 56g) and lets say each rgb molecule creates 10^-23W, which is extremely little since its so miniscule. All of this calculates into... The entire rgb molecules create about 6W. If you have about 500mL of total volume of water inside your loop, the water temperature increases about .003 degree celsius each second or about extra 10.3 degree celsius after an hour long gaming session. But remember your loop probably uses some type of special coolant that has significantly higher heat capacity and you also have radiator that dissipates heat. So maybe if we have such rgb molecule of such size, such heat output, sich functionality, such technology to allow all this to happen, it might work!! I doubt it will be possible though even in far future like in a couple of decades  

 

 

So i would suggest making rgb tube with maybe flexible screen wrapping around the outer wall of the tube. Much more practical, much more possible, and therefore much more cost effective(?) As for reservoir you can install extremely bright white leds as backlight and install flexible screen around the reservoir tube l. This is the idea of screen side panel that one of the pc building companies use i forget which one it was.

[andy0842]

On 3/19/2017 at 0:50 PM, RadiatingLight said:

Look at NVidia pascal.

the 980 vs 1080's power efficiency is a solid jump. even in the same '80' tier.

 

this will continue, and when halo level graphics cards only need a single 6-pin (or equivalent) then we can cram them into small form factors setups with no problem.

Intel has moved away from improving pure cpu performance to adding more functions such as optane storGe technology and making cpus more efficient. Why? Moore's Law. Aside from that generational incremental performance bump, we're not seeing much performance increase in cpu. Eventually with cpu efficiency, and in fact gpu performance and efficiency, we will hit that wall where those things will not improve much at one point.

[RadiatingLight]

9 minutes ago, andy0842 said:

Intel has moved away from improving pure cpu performance to adding more functions such as optane storGe technology and making cpus more efficient. Why? Moore's Law. Aside from that generational incremental performance bump, we're not seeing much performance increase in cpu. Eventually with cpu efficiency, and in fact gpu performance and efficiency, we will hit that wall where those things will not improve much at one point.

No.

 

Intel isn't doing anything because (until now) they had no competition.

GPUs, on the other hand, are moving fast because there's a ton of competition.

 

[andy0842]

14 minutes ago, RadiatingLight said:

No.

 

Intel isn't doing anything because (until now) they had no competition.

GPUs, on the other hand, are moving fast because there's a ton of competition.

 

Intel definitely has been doing stuffs. They released 10 core overclockable cpu, the notorious 6950x; implemented tb3 for which i extol intel; developed aforemention optane storage technology; recently acquisited vr- and vision-related companies and so much more that intel obviously doesnt want me to know. They are probably looking at auto pilot system and vr markets. Intel has been working on efficiency of cpu for one main reason as far as i know. They want to enter mobile market. They tried it with atom processor in asus phone with no luck. Instead, intel has been releasing devices like NUC and compute stick.

 

You saying intel hast done sheet cuz of no competition is completely wrong because intel is smart enough to know that amd is definitely coming back with something that is worthy to worry about at least.

Edited March 26, 2017 by andy0842