Ryzen's high cache latency (probably) explained.

[Dabombinable]

Just now, zMeul said:

AIDA had some issues showing correct memory/cache numbers with Zen, they fixed it with latest BETA

check if reviewers retested it

I said that I wasn't holding up much hope with the way my benchmarks were going-if I remember correctly, the IMC of my Phenom II P920 and N970 is far better than that of the newer A8 4555M (the Phenom II are 2 and 1 year older respectively).

[zMeul]

3 minutes ago, HalGameGuru said:

The better the initial quality the better it will look even after being digested in YouTube's Bowels. The videos on my channel are night and day when I switched to recording locally using VCE. Still not great. But way better than the stream was. And were I able to use x264 for streaming, I would probably do so more often, as VCE works, but doesn't look as good, so given a choice I will record rather than stream and then use the better quality file to upload. And if you are on a tight budget you don't have a lot of options for quality, especially for twitch streaming.

when I do gameplay recording I usually do it at high quality with QS or HEVC

but the issue arises when I process the source via editor or Handbrake (if I upload raw with no edits) - the editor darkens it, and Handbrake brightens it

[HalGameGuru]

3 minutes ago, zMeul said:

when I do gameplay recording I usually do it at high quality with QS or HEVC

but the issue arises when I process the source via editor or Handbrake (if I upload raw with no edits) - the editor darkens it, and Handbrake brightens it

Yeah since I am using VCE thru my GPU I typically record at a high quality setting, equalling out to around 20-30Mbit at 1080. Not gonna look as good as x264 at that bitrate but keeps its head after youtube digestion. Because my setup is so anemic I don't typically handbrake I just let it upload overnight and eat the huge file size.

 

I have hopes for Ryzen working out of its growing pains in a few months and becoming an affordable jack of all trades machine that I can work, play, and stream on.

[leadeater]

4 hours ago, zMeul said:

Ryzen is only suited for niche workloads where GPU acceleration is not available and you also can't afford a Broadwell-E

Even with GPU acceleration you have to be careful, a slow CPU can limit the amount of work that can be passed on to the GPU. Linus learnt that the hard way using the wrong Xeons in the GPU rendering servers, he used the high core count Xeons not the very specific ones Intel has for that task with less cores and WAY higher clocks.

[Phentos]

Honestly for Ryzen being such a new architecture, it's doing better than people give it credit for.

 

With literally no optimizations for its architecture it's still competing with its intended Intel counterparts, namely the 6850K and 6900K. 7700K-tier single threaded performance might be out of reach for even the R5 and R3 versions, but the price difference between those and the 7700K might work in AMD's favor. 

 

I knew from the moment I saw the SMT performance on the benchmarks that it honestly isn't the fault of the processor itself. It's more the fault of the architecture being entirely alien to virtually all software in existence at the moment. Windows most likely has no idea how to properly schedule the threads for Ryzen, which is important for all applications executed within Windows, including games. As Ryzen will obviously lack the GenuineIntel tag, Windows probably is going to treat it as a Bulldozer-derived CPU and handle thread scheduling that way. Just a hunch.

 

Also the fact that many of the new motherboards have had tons of issues with Ryzen indicates that firmware updates might mitigate a lot of those issues. 

[Prysin]

1 hour ago, leadeater said:

Even with GPU acceleration you have to be careful, a slow CPU can limit the amount of work that can be passed on to the GPU. Linus learnt that the hard way using the wrong Xeons in the GPU rendering servers, he used the high core count Xeons not the very specific ones Intel has for that task with less cores and WAY higher clocks.

well Linus is sort of like AMD.... a general idea where he want to go, but no clue how to execute.

[Valentyn]

7 minutes ago, Prysin said:

well Linus is sort of like AMD.... a general idea where he want to go, but no clue how to execute.

 

Linus Hot, and Cheap, with the ability to handle many things at the same time confirmed. 

[Prysin]

3 minutes ago, Valentyn said:

 

Linus Hot, and Cheap, with the ability to handle many things at the same time confirmed. 

but he never does one thing very well.

[Valentyn]

Just now, Prysin said:

but he never does one thing very well.

Both can handle Cinebench and Video work well at least.

[Prysin]

1 minute ago, Valentyn said:

Both can handle Cinebench and Video work well at least.

and both refuses to achknowledge their issues.

[zMeul]

1 hour ago, leadeater said:

Even with GPU acceleration you have to be careful, a slow CPU can limit the amount of work that can be passed on to the GPU. Linus learnt that the hard way using the wrong Xeons in the GPU rendering servers, he used the high core count Xeons not the very specific ones Intel has for that task with less cores and WAY higher clocks.

yes, I remember

but didn't he put in the 10 core i7 in it? the 6950X

[Prysin]

1 minute ago, zMeul said:

yes, I remember

but didn't he put in the 10 core i7 in it? the 6950X

that was after he discovered his mistake

[leadeater]

9 minutes ago, zMeul said:

yes, I remember

but didn't he put in the 10 core i7 in it? the 6950X

Something like that, don't remember the exact one he put in. He used what ever he had on hand, also since desktop CPUs are limited to single socket unlike the E5-2600 Xeons so only one can be used.

 

The Xeons he should have used are:

• E5-2687W v4, https://ark.intel.com/products/92989/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E5-2643-v4-20M-Cache-3_40-GHz
• E5-2667 v4, https://ark.intel.com/products/92979/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E5-2667-v4-25M-Cache-3_20-GHz
• E5-2643 v4, https://ark.intel.com/products/92989/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E5-2643-v4-20M-Cache-3_40-GHz
• E5-2637 v4, https://ark.intel.com/products/92983/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E5-2637-v4-15M-Cache-3_50-GHz

You'll notice how these have much higher clocks than the majority of Xeons which hover around 1.7GHz to 2.6GHz.

 

[3DOSH]

Ryzen is not good for gaming but good with workstations loads. workstations loads don't relay on CPU any more if you have good GPU. 
Vega comes out, not the best at gaming but good with workstations loads but hey it needs good CPU at workstation loads. 

/Sarcasm.

[HalGameGuru]

Specifically on the cache access issue would that be solved by manually setting the CPU affinity for specific threads, say forcing your game to CPU's 0-3 and your stream to CPU's 4-7 thereby removing cross talk on the L3 for those workloads? 

[anotherriddle]

On ‎03‎.‎03‎.‎2017 at 0:28 PM, Organized said:

Well, this explanation seems quite logical for me. I hope that a fix/customization of the windows scheduler will do the trick. The I also hope that the Linux kernel will get this fix aswell.

I would especially want to know how Ryzen handles Linux distros as I plan to use it for my next build.

[Organized]

21 hours ago, anotherriddle said:

I would especially want to know how Ryzen handles Linux distros as I plan to use it for my next build.

I read on a german news site (Golem.de) that Ryzen runs perfectly fine on the popular linux distributions.

[anotherriddle]

19 hours ago, Organized said:

I read on a german news site (Golem.de) that Ryzen runs perfectly fine on the popular linux distributions.

thanks  

I'll be sure to take a look

[BachChain]

On 3/4/2017 at 6:27 PM, anotherriddle said:

I would especially want to know how Ryzen handles Linux distros as I plan to use it for my next build.

 

 

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=ryzen-1800x-linux&num=2

Quote

After assembling the system and powering it up, the Ubuntu 17.04 USB-based installer proceeded to start without any problems! No having to pass any special kernel command-line arguments, no hitting kernel panics or other issues like with some past CPU launches, and this Ubuntu 17.04 installer proceeded to run, detecting the NVMe SSD storage and everything else just fine.

Quote

one item not well supported is the Realtek ALC1220 codec for the onboard audio. ALC1220 support is coming to the Linux 4.11 kernel and hasn't been backported to any stable kernel series yet. Thus for now unless you plan on using an RC kernel or patching your own kernel, the onboard audio may not work.

 

[anotherriddle]

25 minutes ago, BachChain said:

 

 

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=ryzen-1800x-linux&num=2

 

thanks for that. Sounds promising, next I'll take a look at virtualisation.