Separate SSD and HDD or SSD caching?

[oscar7601]

Hello everyone,

I am currently building my first desktop computer and I was wondering about which choice to make for storage.

 

I own a brand new 4TB Seagate HDD but since I have tasted the speed of SSDs, I am considering to buy one.

 

I know I am the kind of guy who likes to install everything on C: and I would like to spend as little money as possible on the SSD.

 

So I am wondering if the best thing for me wouldn't be to buy an ultra cheap 60 GB SSD and use it as a caching SSD via my motherboard (Asus X79 Sabertooth)

 

What do you think about this idea? Is it bad?

[Oshino Shinobu]

The issue with caching is that you have basically no control over what gets stored on the SSD cache. I would go for a dedicated SSD and install all of the things you need to launch quickly, as well as the OS and have the HDD for everything else. 120GB is the minimum I'd suggest.

[Mahmoods27]

Invest in a good 256GB SSD rather than a cheap 60GB one you'll feel better about it in the long run. You can pick up a used Samsung EVO 840 or 850 for little more than a new 60GB SSD on ebay, they'll still work fine even if they're used. Get a cheapo seagate 2TB on the side for 30 and add another one when that fills up. Don't go for the SSD caching mechanical HDDs, they usually come in 54000 variants which are slow as molasses. 

[oscar7601]

22 minutes ago, Mahmoods27 said:

Invest in a good 256GB SSD rather than a cheap 60GB one you'll feel better about it in the long run. You can pick up a used Samsung EVO 840 or 850 for little more than a new 60GB SSD on ebay, they'll still work fine even if they're used. Get a cheapo seagate 2TB on the side for 30 and add another one when that fills up. Don't go for the SSD caching mechanical HDDs, they usually come in 54000 variants which are slow as molasses. 

 

Hello there!

I believe you have not really read my OP.

I already own a 4TB HDD.

And what do you mean by "you'll feel better about it in the long run"?

[oscar7601]

29 minutes ago, Oshino Shinobu said:

The issue with caching is that you have basically no control over what gets stored on the SSD cache.

Erm... How is that an issue?

Correct me if I'm wrong but you "never" have any control over what is cached or not?

 

26 minutes ago, Mahmoods27 said:

This quote was created by mistake

 

32 minutes ago, Oshino Shinobu said:

120GB is the minimum I'd suggest.

Do you mean for an OS drive? If so I agree. But if you're talking about the cache SSD then I think I've read somewhere that some SSD caching systems (I believe it is Intel's ones) only support SSDs up to 64GB.

[Mahmoods27]

1 hour ago, oscar7601 said:

 

Hello there!

I believe you have not really read my OP.

I already own a 4TB HDD.

And what do you mean by "you'll feel better about it in the long run"?

Sorry I misunderstood, I thought you were trying to decide between buying one of the two. Since you're not I'd definitely suggest keeping the mechanical drive and buying an SSD in addition to that. Rather than installing an SSD cache, I'd suggest using an SSD as a primary boot drive and the mechanical as secondary.  

 

When I say you'll feel better about it in the long run, I mean that 60GB or 120GB may be enough just for the OS, but having 256GB allows you to also install some additional applications as well as download stuff without worrying about where to place your files each time you want to install something or create a new project. If you're the type of person who installs everything on C, you'll be constantly trying to move files each time you need to install something new and you won't see the benefits of using an SSD in the windows environment beyond booting if you don't have at least 256GB in my opinion. 

 

Also if you're intent on using a 60GB SSD as a cache, it's not the best idea. If you go for the cheapest SSD on the market, you're not going to see the performance difference that you're aiming for when compared to average quality SSDs. The cheaper ones may have initial read/write speeds of 500 or 300 mb/s but their continuous read/write speeds are usually no better than a mechanical drive. Additionally, when you compare the price of a quality 60GB SSD to a 128GB or 256GB one, the price difference now isn't as high as it used to be even a year ago, so investing in one as a boot drive doesn't have to be an expensive option and can actually make sense in the long run. Additionally, if you manage to get a deal in a sale you can pick up a large capacity one and treat it as you would your conventional hard drive without having to worry about lack of space most of the time. I bought a Crucial MX300 750GB SSD for a 100 pounds during the Amazon Christmas sale. This SSD typically costs 180 pounds so it is possible to get an amazing deal on them and I'm sure there's other deals all the time.  

 

Additionally, the problem with a caching SSD and never having control over what program is cached is essentially one of convinience. You'll never know if the SSD is actually working and when it does work, there's no guarantee that it'll keep working in the way you expect it to. So much is dependant on the caching algorithm that even if you install it, you may never actually see any benefit at all.

 

 

[Oshino Shinobu]

1 hour ago, oscar7601 said:

Erm... How is that an issue?

Correct me if I'm wrong but you "never" have any control over what is cached or not?

 

 

Do you mean for an OS drive? If so I agree. But if you're talking about the cache SSD then I think I've read somewhere that some SSD caching systems (I believe it is Intel's ones) only support SSDs up to 64GB.

It's an issue because the performance gains are hit and miss. Depending on your usage habits, you may just end up with a load of stuff that doesn't need to be loaded fast/doesn't take long to load in the cache and then the things you do want to load fast are not cached. With a separate drive you have control over what goes onto the drive, so you have control over what loads fast. That way you can prioritise applications and data you want the speed benefits for. Caching does have its benefits, but if you have to choose between either caching or a dedicated SSD I would always go for the dedicated drive.

 

Yes, I meant for OS drives. Intel SRT limits the SSD cache size to 64GB as beyond that you encounter diminishing returns. If you have a drive over 64GB, you'll get more out of it as a boot drive anyway. Having the SSD as a boot drive will speed up the entire operating system and anything you choose to put on the drive, while an SSD cache will speed up frequently used data, which may or may not benefit from the speed increase.

[oscar7601]

Alright! Thank you for your patience and thorough explanations!

Now I really get the point of using a bigger SSD as an OS drive. It's actually mainly about keeping control over what has to be loaded fast and what has not.

It does make sense and I guess I'll go this way. But then I think I'll wait for the prices of the SSDs to go back down a bit. I don't know if it's the case elsewhere but in France during the past few months the prices of SSDs have exploded (I have read it has to do with the global shortage of NAND memory)...

 

I have to say though that I am curious as to how impressive (or not) the SSD caching would be. I'll try to grab a good quality used SSD on eBay in the coming weeks/months while keeping track of the new SSDs prices to buy a larger one for the OS

 

Anyway, thank you very much

[Oshino Shinobu]

14 minutes ago, oscar7601 said:

Alright! Thank you for your patience and thorough explanations!

Now I really get the point of using a bigger SSD as an OS drive. It's actually mainly about keeping control over what has to be loaded fast and what has not.

It does make sense and I guess I'll go this way. But then I think I'll wait for the prices of the SSDs to go back down a bit. I don't know if it's the case elsewhere but in France during the past few months the prices of SSDs have exploded (I have read it has to do with the global shortage of NAND memory)...

 

I have to say though that I am curious as to how impressive (or not) the SSD caching would be. I'll try to grab a good quality used SSD on eBay in the coming weeks/months while keeping track of the new SSDs prices to buy a larger one for the OS

 

Anyway, thank you very much

RAM and flash storage prices are going up everywhere, including here in the UK. Like you mentioned, it's due to a shortage on NAND right now.