Planning on purchasing a gaming laptop. MSI or Sager?

[Me is =Bigfoot]

I've bolded the necessary bits

 

Hi, I'm planning on purchasing a gaming laptop to replace my current gaming desktop. My desktop is quite good; however, I constantly move between homes and I am unable to carry my desktop around so much. I am also going to college soon so a laptop works much better for me there (I won't be using it for classes, I have a macbook for that). 

 

My budget is under $3000 and I want as big a beast of a machine I can get.

 

After doing much research, I've come down to either the MSI GT73VR and the SAGER NP9873. Either with just one GTX 1080. I like the SAGER, because it offers a 7700k , much better than the cpu in the MSI laptop for around the same cost.

 

My worry is just that I am unfamiliar with SAGER as a brand and do not know about the reliability of the laptop. I feel that MSI is a more recognized brand and may be a safer bet. This is a big worry for me, because I've heard much about the general unreliability of gaming laptops and want this laptop to last me a good 4 years at least. 

 

I know Linus did a review of the SAGER NP9873, but what worried me were the temperatures he measured under load: average of 80C. 80C seems really high to me, so much so that I feel the components would degrade quickly over time.

 

Do any of you guys know which laptop would be best in terms of staying cool, reliability, and longevity, and which brand might offer the best warranty service in case of the laptop degrading or breaking?

 

Thanks for reading and advice.

[Streetguru]

38 minutes ago, Me is =Bigfoot said:

 

If you want the coolest running laptops you'd probably want alienware, since they tend to have thicker laptops with more thermal mass

 

temps look pretty good here as far as typical chassis temps, won't burn your hand on the tracpad most likely, adding one of them laptop cooling pads is probably going to help some as well potentially

of course all gaming laptops run hot as shit under load, look at what it takes to cool a desktop CPU or GPU effectively
 

 

[ThroneSmasher]

Mm well id say you should get a 1500 dollar laptop with a 1060 like i have a predator x17 and i have no thermal throtling and spend the rest on a desktop build that you can hardcore game i have a 7700k with a 1070 i game at college with the 1060 and get solid peformance and if i need more cpu power n sgronger gpu i turn my desktop on but if anything the x17 predator is solid im my opinion i play games like the division, bf1, infinite warfare, gta 5,overwatch, shadow of mordor without a problem so check it out, the thing is of your going ro carry anything like the x17 your carrying like 10-12 pounds around including the charger but is still more portable then a desktop and also the backpacks for this type of laptops are pretty rare and i have yet to find one that can fit this laptop i just ordered a 18 inch backpack so i guess ill let you know but i was too looking into msi and other brands but idk for me personally the predator felt more solid after testing display models at best buy and costco the keyboard is good the touch pad is also very responsive the cooling fans have presets for maximum cooling but i rarely use them at max and the best part even when i games on my laptop for more then 6-8 hrs playing diffrent games the keyboard or buttons on the laptop are comfortable to use since you dont really feel the heat even when gaming hard it also includes a extra fan that you can place instead of the dvd drive but ive have yet to use it idk if the 1070 and 1080 models run as good as this 1060 model but yeah like i said before pretty solid

[Pendragon]

10 minutes ago, Streetguru said:

If you want the coolest running laptops you'd probably want alienware, since they tend to have thicker laptops with more thermal mass

 

temps look pretty good here as far as typical chassis temps, won't burn your hand on the tracpad most likely, adding one of them laptop cooling pads is probably going to help some as well potentially

of course all gaming laptops run hot as shit under load, look at what it takes to cool a desktop CPU or GPU effectively

3

God all this misinformation. Firstly, Alienware doesn't run cool at stock. You need extensive modding to get it to good temps. Secondly, AW is the thinner of the 1080 machines. Thirdlly, all AW 1080s are power throttled. Fourth, there are soooooo many issues with Alienware. They make fundamentally good machines, but require SO MUCH modding to get in a good conditional. Not to mention that AW modding as been some of the most annoying I've done because the internal design is horseshit. I own one of the new ones. 

 

47 minutes ago, Me is =Bigfoot said:

snip

 

Sager is not a maker of the laptops. It's actually a Clevo. So between the GT73VR and the Clevo P870DM3. You'll get better performance from the Clevo 100%. But I'm bias towards the MSI for it's better acoustics and keyboard. 

 

If you want a 15in laptop with a 1080 to be even more mobile. http://www.hidevolution.com/evoc-16l-g-1080-custom-built-gaming-desktop-replacement-laptop.html. I prefer the 16L13 to both of them if your going to move around. Otherwise, its up to you whether you want more quality of life from MSI or better performance from Clevo. If you're going to be using an external keyboard and headphones on either of the laptops, then get the Clevo. If not, consider the MSI. 

 

@D2ultima this thread seems right up your alley. 

[Streetguru]

6 minutes ago, Pendragon said:

 

the machine in his video seemed to run reasonably cool for a gaming laptop and none too loud

[Pendragon]

44 minutes ago, Streetguru said:

the machine in his video seemed to run reasonably cool for a gaming laptop and none too loud

It runs like shit. So instead of me trying to unsuccessfully give you information, I'm literally going to link his own videos to you. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GirnsRhEos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXWdPYZaS9Q

 

[Streetguru]

2 minutes ago, Pendragon said:

It runs like shit. So instead of me trying to unsuccessfully give you information, I'm literally going to link his own videos to you. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GirnsRhEos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXWdPYZaS9Q

 

So what's the least shit gaming laptop?

Aside from like a Razer Blade Stealth with the external dock

 

1 hour ago, Me is =Bigfoot said:

 

Would you be at all interested in one of the laptops with an external dock? it gives you a pretty good laptop, and a good gaming experience when you're at a desk

[D2ultima]

3 minutes ago, Streetguru said:

So what's the least shit gaming laptop?

Aside from like a Razer Blade Stealth with the external dock

 

Would you be at all interested in one of the laptops with an external dock? it gives you a pretty good laptop, and a good gaming experience when you're at a desk

Razer is shit, eGPU is more shit, stuttery and uses Optimus (iGPU runs your display; not perfectly compatible with all games, performance overhead vs dGPU usage) and bottlenecks 1060 and above

 

The only form of eGPU worth a damn is a M.2 NGFF custom kit, so it bypasses the Thunderbolt 3 conversion overhead, and nVidia's drivers have prevented their cards from working with those kits for some time (at least the Titan X Pascal; unsure if 1080 is too, etc... but probably is). Note that when I say "prevented", I literally mean that. As in, they worked before, and then later drives denied them working.

1 hour ago, Me is =Bigfoot said:

I've bolded the necessary bits

 

Hi, I'm planning on purchasing a gaming laptop to replace my current gaming desktop. My desktop is quite good; however, I constantly move between homes and I am unable to carry my desktop around so much. I am also going to college soon so a laptop works much better for me there (I won't be using it for classes, I have a macbook for that). 

 

My budget is under $3000 and I want as big a beast of a machine I can get.

 

After doing much research, I've come down to either the MSI GT73VR and the SAGER NP9873. Either with just one GTX 1080. I like the SAGER, because it offers a 7700k , much better than the cpu in the MSI laptop for around the same cost.

 

My worry is just that I am unfamiliar with SAGER as a brand and do not know about the reliability of the laptop. I feel that MSI is a more recognized brand and may be a safer bet. This is a big worry for me, because I've heard much about the general unreliability of gaming laptops and want this laptop to last me a good 4 years at least. 

 

I know Linus did a review of the SAGER NP9873, but what worried me were the temperatures he measured under load: average of 80C. 80C seems really high to me, so much so that I feel the components would degrade quickly over time.

 

Do any of you guys know which laptop would be best in terms of staying cool, reliability, and longevity, and which brand might offer the best warranty service in case of the laptop degrading or breaking?

 

Thanks for reading and advice.

Check out HIDevolution.com and their "EVOC" line. PLEASE give them a call and ask if you can purchase a P870DM3 with a single 1080 (it isn't an option on the site, but they might sell it to you). It's the best place to get one as they delid the CPUs and you really do need it delidded. Honestly. If not, then the P775DM3 is up your alley. I have been told that they apply non-standard thermal pad arrangements for best cooling and their CPUs are all delidded and overclocked (i7-7700Ks are ALL guaranteed to, and set in the BIOS to, hit 4.7GHz out of the gate... you will never get one slower from HIDevolution).

 

MSI is shit for high end. The more I hear and see about it, the shittier it becomes. The GT73VR can't use over 2666MHz RAM, making 2400MHz kingston cl14 the best they offer. Even if you set XMP in the BIOS it doesn't work at 2800MHz/3000MHz in windows. No point in the 2666/2800 RAM sets either; their timings are through the damn roof. You need to remove the motherboard from the system to access the RAM slots under the top cover, which is where RAM is installed by default as far as I know, making upgrades or testing of RAM an absolute pain as it requires a FULL disassembly every single time. Its CPU is almost guaranteed to not overclock as well either. I can't recommend a GT73VR for a high end user. It's MSI's own fault for being fucking retarded and not letting Kaby Lake CPUs with their ridiculous IMC making 3800MHz+ RAM easy to use touch any RAM above 2666MHz in a flagship model.

 

As for heat, 80c is not hot for a laptop. I personally attempt to keep my stuff under 80c at all times, and I do succeed, but it's not like 90c will kill your card in any length of time before it becomes obsolete naturally. If any component dies, it did so just because it's near impossible to check longevity of any part and it just met its time... or you killed it manually doing something. Either way, HID is good for warranty, and I can't recommend anywhere that doesn't delid those desktop CPUs. It isn't feasible at all.

[Pendragon]

16 minutes ago, D2ultima said:

The only form of eGPU worth a damn is a M.2 NGFF custom kit, so it bypasses the Thunderbolt 3 conversion overhead, and nVidia's drivers have prevented their cards from working with those kits for some time (at least the Titan X Pascal; unsure if 1080 is too, etc... but probably is). Note that when I say "prevented", I literally mean that. As in, they worked before, and then later drives denied them working.

1

You are forgetting AW's direct PCIE out solution. It's so much better than standard eGPU TB3. I haven't seen the M2 NGFF kit. I'm assuming it uses the M2 slot direct PCIE out lanes for eGPU instead? 

[NA_NotAvailable]

1 minute ago, Pendragon said:

You are forgetting AW's direct PCIE out solution. It's so much better than standard eGPU TB3. I haven't seen the M2 NGFF kit. I'm assuming it uses the M2 slot direct PCIE out lanes for eGPU instead? 

yea but won't you heave the entire bottom of the laptop exposed? it would be nice if they could make something like this but wire it to the back of the laptop. IS the Performance better/ worse than Alienware GPU?(i will just mod the bottom of the laptop lol)

[D2ultima]

20 minutes ago, Pendragon said:

You are forgetting AW's direct PCIE out solution. It's so much better than standard eGPU TB3. I haven't seen the M2 NGFF kit. I'm assuming it uses the M2 slot direct PCIE out lanes for eGPU instead? 

Ah yes you're right. It does not use a M.2 slot but rather a direct PCI/e slot... still runs through the DMI though, as far as I know (why it's limited to PCI/e 3.0 x4). I was more considering universal PCI/e solutions, thanks for making me clarify.

[NA_NotAvailable]

1 hour ago, Pendragon said:

It runs like shit. So instead of me trying to unsuccessfully give you information, I'm literally going to link his own videos to you. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GirnsRhEos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXWdPYZaS9Q

 

And I think they resolved the issue, we wont know till I get mine. 

 

 + Dell Canada is full of scammers bellow is my conversation with them. (mind you I am already pissed with them and I did send this chat log to Umair from Alienware nothing from him yet)

 

01/27/2017 08:05:53AM	Session Started with Agent (Subrahmanyam_P)
01/27/2017 08:05:53AM	NA: "1_240"
01/27/2017 08:06:00AM	Agent (Subrahmanyam_P): "Welcome to Dell Canada Chat! My name is Subrahmanyam and I will be your dell.ca Sales Chat Expert. I can be reached at subrahmanyam_pallapo@dell.com. How can I help you today?"
01/27/2017 08:06:44AM	NA: "I was wondering when the Alienwawre 17 r4 with intel i7 7820hk and GTX1080 will be released"
01/27/2017 08:07:42AM	NA: "I will be coming in around the start of March to Canada So I wish to finalize it before then so that I can get 5% reward back"
01/27/2017 08:08:55AM	Agent (Subrahmanyam_P): "Glad you chatted in today, I'd be happy to help you with the information."
01/27/2017 08:09:11AM	Agent (Subrahmanyam_P): "NA we have Alienware 17 R4 with GTX 1080 video card."
01/27/2017 08:09:32AM	NA: "do you understand English"
01/27/2017 08:09:46AM	NA: "I am sorry to be rude but do you?"
01/27/2017 08:10:16AM	NA: "does the GTX1080 have a I7 7820HK?"
01/27/2017 08:11:20AM	NA: "or does it have a i7 6820hk SO if you did understand ENGLISH you would know that I did not ask to talk to you about the 6820hk GTX 1080"
01/27/2017 08:11:57AM	NA: "not do i want a i7 7820hk with a GTX1070"
01/27/2017 08:12:07AM	NA: "*nor do I want a"
01/27/2017 08:12:12AM	Agent (Subrahmanyam_P): "NA, we have I7 7820 HK with GTX 1080, but they are not updated on the web site. If you are looking to order just let me know I will assist you with a quote."
01/27/2017 08:12:28AM	NA: "really oh thank you yes"
01/27/2017 08:12:38AM	NA: "i would like the quote sorry i was soo rude"
01/27/2017 08:12:50AM	Agent (Subrahmanyam_P): "Could you confirm your Full Name, Phone Number and Billing/Shipping address? so that I will create a quotation on your name and get you the prices with Taxes ?"
01/27/2017 08:13:14AM	NA: "sec"
01/27/2017 08:13:55AM	NA: "mind if i ask the specs?"
01/27/2017 08:14:22AM	Agent (Subrahmanyam_P): "Not at all, let me provide you the specs."
01/27/2017 08:16:53AM	Agent (Subrahmanyam_P): "7th Generation Intel® Core™ i7-7820HK Windows 10 Home 64bit English 17.3 inch UHD (3840 x 2160) IPS Anti-Glare 300-nits Display with Tobii IR Eye-tracking NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 1080 with 8GB GDDR5 32GB DDR4 at 2400MHz (2x16GB) 256GB PCIe SSD (Boot) + 1TB"
	7200RPM SATA 6Gb/s (Storage)
01/27/2017 08:17:01AM	Agent (Subrahmanyam_P): "Price $3699.99 + Taxes."
01/27/2017 08:17:01AM	NA: "Name: NA (123) - 456- 7890"
01/27/2017 08:18:03AM	NA: "location: Alienware Canadian Sales HELL"
01/27/2017 08:18:36AM	Agent (Subrahmanyam_P): "may I have the postal code ?"
01/27/2017 08:18:44AM	NA: "could i get a reference number I will confrim this tommorw"
01/27/2017 08:19:17AM	NA: "I didn't think it was out and with all the things I want."
01/27/2017 08:19:22AM	Agent (Subrahmanyam_P): "the quote will be emailed to you in 1-2 hours.  you can reach us with the quote number."
01/27/2017 08:19:44AM	Agent (Subrahmanyam_P): "may I know the specs that you are looking ?"
01/27/2017 08:20:56AM	NA: "i would prefer to have 16gb DDR4 because I ordered a Corsair 32gb at 2666mhz"
01/27/2017 08:21:06AM	NA: "but these specs are perfect"
01/27/2017 08:21:22AM	NA: "i would like 4 years warranty + accidental"
01/27/2017 08:22:22AM	Agent (Subrahmanyam_P): "thank you for the details."
01/27/2017 08:22:35AM	Agent (Subrahmanyam_P): "you will be getting a quotation shortly."
01/27/2017 08:23:05AM	NA: "+ a External graphics Amp + Alienware 17 Vindicator Briefcase V2.0"
01/27/2017 08:23:28AM	NA: "This is Dell Canada right"
01/27/2017 08:23:49AM	Agent (Subrahmanyam_P): "yes, you have reached Dell Canada."
01/27/2017 08:24:17AM	NA: "7th Generation Intel® Core™ i7-7820HK 17.3 inch UHD (3840 x 2160) IPS Anti-Glare 300-nits Display with Tobii IR Eye-tracking NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 1080 with 8GB GDDR5 that is real right"
01/27/2017 08:24:23AM	NA: "UHD not QHD"
01/27/2017 08:24:57AM	NA: "on a GTX 1080 with i7-7820hk"
01/27/2017 08:24:59AM	Agent (Subrahmanyam_P): "UHD."
01/27/2017 08:25:23AM	NA: "thank you so much I will try confirming this asap."
01/27/2017 08:25:40AM	NA: "I was trying to get this since i don't know when"
01/27/2017 08:26:24AM	NA: "thank you for your help i will keep in touch though email."

 But then they went back saying this guy lied made me waste 4h of my time. Tried to sell me 6820hk with GTX 1080 or the 7820Hk with the GTX 1070 (I really want to know IF they understand English.) Only way I got the full story is by Calling Dell Alienware US. even then this is Dell Alienware where they "get a good customer service rating" by lyig to the customer

 

From this experience IF you get a Alienware you will be dealing with people who don't know there stuff or people who lie about knowing it and you end up wasting the entire day. So buy alienware IF you know what you are doing, IF you don't think of it as AIDS.

[D2ultima]

2 hours ago, NA_NotAvailable said:

And I think they resolved the issue, we wont know till I get mine. 

They haven't resolved shit, and never will. They're happily fucking over customers instead of paying for new heatsink designs and initiating a recall for everyone who is experiencing a problem. They're scum. You don't need to get yours to check. The heatsink is designed badly. They switched the uneven core contact onto the GPU by using certain thermal pads on the CPU's point. The heatsink was DESIGNED TO FUCK UP THE CPU. PERIOD.

[Galm]

10 hours ago, D2ultima said:

They haven't resolved shit, and never will. They're happily fucking over customers instead of paying for new heatsink designs and initiating a recall for everyone who is experiencing a problem. They're scum. You don't need to get yours to check. The heatsink is designed badly. They switched the uneven core contact onto the GPU by using certain thermal pads on the CPU's point. The heatsink was DESIGNED TO FUCK UP THE CPU. PERIOD.

At one point they "resolved" the issue by redefining overheating to 110C.  

 

Lemme just break this down completely:

MSI GT83VR - Bitchin keyboard...  That's about it.  It's a huge brick with a mobile cpu.

 

MSI GT73VR - An alright option.  Missing a decent amount of features you'd expect in a high end machine.  Cooling system is pretty decent to be honest.

 

AW 17 - Avoid.  Heatsink issues so severe that any other issues haven't even been addressed yet on most of the Alienware lineup.

 

Aorus X7 DT - Thin for a 1080 laptop and not bad.  Thermals are impressive for the form factor and it has a solid amount of features.  The best option for those who need portable (over Razer).

 

Clevo P775DM3 - Single 1080 option from Clevo.  Little warm but Evoc HID models can tame it.  A delid and and undervolt will make this thing a beast.

 

Clevo P870KM1 - True monster.  Easily the most powerful and best cooled option on the market.   <---------  If you want performance

 

Acer 17 - No idea, does anyone even have one?

 

Asus G701 - Not too bad from what I've seen but quality control is not Asus' forte.  Cooling is decent.

 

Razer Blade Pro - Honestly surprisingly good from it's vapor chamber temp wise but otherwise bad.  Terrible keyboard, terrible quality control (major raid failure issue), gimped 1080, and terrible price.  

 

HIDEvolution is easily the best for a high end machine.  They delid, guarentee OCs, and have the Prema bios.  Also have awesome customer support through Donald.  

[Me is =Bigfoot]

Wow, thanks everyone for all this great information. Give me some time to read through after I do some work and I'll let you guys know if I have more questions and what I end up doing.

[Me is =Bigfoot]

2 hours ago, Galm said:

HIDEvolution is easily the best for a high end machine.  They delid, guarentee OCs, and have the Prema bios.  Also have awesome customer support through Donald.  

Thanks for all the great info, I will definitely look into these guys as a few other have mentioned them as well. After looking up what exactly delidding is, that definitely seems like a huge plus for me. This will likely be what I end up with.

 

Thanks again.