Languages/frameworks to get valuable experience while studying

[Claryn]

Hi.

I am currently enrolled in a 5-year MSci Computer Science (Engineering) at University. The program is not strictly a Software Development/Engineering course, but rather a Computer Engineer-program. It is basically a BSci Computer Science degree (with all the stuff a CS-degree would include: algorithms and data structures, OOP, procedural etc.), but with advanced engineering maths, physics, fluid-mechanics, electrical engineering, circuit design etc. 

I am rapidly approaching year 3, where I need to decide on my specialisation (what my Masters is gonna be), and I am starting to panic because I am unsure about what specific field I want to pursue.

The paths I can take are as follows:

 

I have been looking a lot at Interaction Design & Games Technology. Games programming is a field I am very interested in, but I am afraid that a degree within Game Tech. specifically with limit my possibilities in the future. Other options are Software Engineering or Computers & System Software, or Artificial Intelligence.

 

Coursework and experience:
Most of the subjects and courses we have to take are based around Java, and some C and Assembly programming with micro-controllers. I do have a strong background in Java OOP from a good high-school course (International Baccalaureate Computer Science Higher Level with specialisation in Java OOP and Discrete mathematics) and some personal projects. However, I feel like I should widen my knowledge by learning a more specific language and framework that will allow me to hunt for local internships and possible part-time jobs that eventually could turn into something permanent after I got my degree.

 

Java is a language that I feel is slowly being faded out from everything to being more focused on big back-end enterprise systems. I am fond of large systems, software architecture etc., but I want to work on something a bit more interesting, newer and more innovative than large enterprise-systems.

My interest in larger systems and OOP is what has kept me at Java and doing small personal projects within game dev (incl. a simple awt based polygon-only Space Invaders, CardsAgainstHumanity using SWING in Netbeans). However, I feel as if Java is limiting my ability to make useful and fun perosnal projects that I can use in a portfolio to get a job or an internship.

 

Moving forward

What I want to do is find a language and a framework that I can use to develop useful projects for my portfolio, and gain experience that is valuable to a future employer. I am going to apply for an internship at Funcom this summer (a local game-studio (makers of Age of Conan, Conan Exiles, Secret World etc.), which I assume use C++ and DX12/11, and some smaller technology start-ups around the city. 

 

What do you guys think I should take a look at? What resources should I use to get started - what should I focus on?

 

TLDR: 2. year in a 5yrs MSci Computer Science course that is using Java a lot. Want new language/framework to create valuable projects and get experience for future jobs. I'm into larger systems/programs and OOP. 

 

Thank you!

 

 

 

[madknight3]

1 hour ago, Claryn said:

What do you guys think I should take a look at?

It sounds like C++ is where you want to be. You're considering game development, which is an area where C++ plays a big role, and applying for an internship that you think uses C++, so it sounds like it's worth spending some time on that. Whether game development is something you end up doing or not, C++ isn't a bad language to be familiar with anyway.

 

[SCHISCHKA]

1 hour ago, Claryn said:

Java is a language that I feel is slowly being faded out from everything to being more focused on big back-end enterprise systems. I am fond of large systems, software architecture etc., but I want to work on something a bit more interesting, newer and more innovative than large enterprise-systems.

 

has always and still is widely used in mobile phones. also has some interesting developments in distributed computing. it only took off on client devices with android. Swing is a bitch.

1 hour ago, Claryn said:

I have been looking a lot at Interaction Design & Games Technology. Games programming is a field I am very interested in, but I am afraid that a degree within Game Tech. specifically with limit my possibilities in the future. Other options are Software Engineering or Computers & System Software, or Artificial Intelligence.

 

Software engineering, artificial intelligence and data mining are the highest paying and highly sought after. Games are interesting but i see a bit of burn out in that industry. Honestly after spending 10+ hours at work staring at a PC the last thing you want to do is play computer games when you get home. If games are your hobby then dont let the commercial world kill it for you.

2 hours ago, Claryn said:

My interest in larger systems and OOP is what has kept me at Java and doing small personal projects within game dev (incl. a simple awt based polygon-only Space Invaders, CardsAgainstHumanity using SWING in Netbeans). However, I feel as if Java is limiting my ability to make useful and fun perosnal projects that I can use in a portfolio to get a job or an internship.

 

build your portfolio with Android. Dont judge Java based on swing. I don't use swing to build a GUI if i have a say in it. A modern GUI should be defined with XML not factory/builder pattern

2 hours ago, Claryn said:

5yrs MSci Computer Science course that is using Java a lot.

What is your masters research? dont listen to me; talk to your professors. I'm doing my post graduate research using Android simply because its a lot more accessible than apple ecosystem. I originally was an electronics student that switched to comp sci because NZ has no electronics industry; I was given a range of topics to choose from for post graduate study and the Android project was the most interesting to me being a hardware one. You can do some pretty interesting stuff but you should research what your interested in and become an expert in that

[Claryn]

Thank you both for the replies!

19 minutes ago, madknight3 said:

It sounds like C++ is where you want to be. You're considering game development, which is an area where C++ plays a big role, and applying for an internship that you think uses C++, so it sounds like it's worth spending some time on that. Whether game development is something you end up doing or not, C++ isn't a bad language to be familiar with anyway.

 

Do you have any suggestions on where to start with C++? What resoruces or libraries/frameworks will easily get me into being able to create smaller games or useful programs that I can have on a portfolio?
In terms of game dev, I know a lot of big engines like Unreal use C++, but I think that would be a bit much to grasp when starting out. I do have some limited experience with C++ (Arduino and started at an online tutorial way back but put it aside). 

10 minutes ago, SCHISCHKA said:

has always and still is widely used in mobile phones. also has some interesting developments in distributed computing. it only took off on client devices with android. Swing is a bitch.

Software engineering, artificial intelligence and data mining are the highest paying and highly sought after. Games are interesting but i see a bit of burn out in that industry. Honestly after spending 10+ hours at work staring at a PC the last thing you want to do is play computer games when you get home. If games are your hobby then dont let the commercial world kill it for you.

I didn't think too much about Android, actually. It could be something to look into, but personally I never use more than 1-2 apps on my phone, so in the long-term I don't necessarily want to invest too much into Android - I believe it is a dying market, and I don't intend to work for someone like Google. It could though be a good spring-board for other Java-related jobs and internships, but then again I would assume those jobs would be within large enterprise systems.

Are there any good resources for Android-development that I should look into?

 

We have been using JavaFX and SceneBuilder somewhat in one of the courses as a side-thing to build some motivation, so maybe I should look more into that.

15 minutes ago, SCHISCHKA said:

What is your masters research? dont listen to me; talk to your professors. I'm doing my post graduate research using Android simply because its a lot more accessible than apple ecosystem. I originally was an electronics student that switched to comp sci because NZ has no electronics industry; I was given a range of topics to choose from for post graduate study and the Android project was the most interesting to me being a hardware one. You can do some pretty interesting stuff but you should research what your interested in and become an expert in that

It is a 5-year degree, so it is basically the usual 3+2 to get a Master, but all in one course. I am technically an undergrad. until year 4, except I won't have a degree until I finish all 5 years. The option is a 3 year BSci Information Technology + 2 year MSci Computer Science, but that does not include all of the math and other engineering topics that you get in the full 5-year course. It is a special kind of course that Tech., and Science Unis in Norway offer. It is meant to educate you as general purpose engineer, but with a MSci in a specific field. We have a lot of subjects that are based around working in teams with all the other 5-year engieering masters courses (Phys&Math, Electrical engineering, Chemistry, Robotics and Cybernetics, Mechanics. etc). 

[fizzlesticks]

22 minutes ago, Claryn said:

Do you have any suggestions on where to start with C++?

Find some website that teaches modern C++ (c++11 / 14,) the STL, smart pointers etc., not C with classes and start from the beginning. There's going to be a lot of things you see and think you already know because Java does something similar but I assure you they're very different (at least in most cases.) It's extremely easy to kill the performance of C++ with very minor mistakes. Of course you can do that in all languages but things like Java are much more forgiving.

 

For example, I attended a talk and the presenter gave a little quiz to see how many people could find the problem with the follow code

 

Spoiler

#include <string>
#include <map>
#include <iostream>

int main(int argc, char* argv[])
{
	std::map<std::string, int> map;
	map["aaa"] = 0;
	map["bbb"] = 1;
	//a ton more map inserts

	for(const std::pair<std::string, int>& item : map)
	{
		std::cout << item.first << " = " << item.second << '\n';
	}

	return 0;
}

 

With an audience full of mostly career C++ devs, only 14% were able to figure out what was wrong, there's only 3 lines of real code it can't be that hard right? The language is full of this kind of stuff, modern C++ helps a ton though. So basically there is no quick or easy when learning C++, just take it slow and make sure you understand things as you go along.

 

As for resources, they're meant for more experienced C++ers but the Effective C++ books by Scott Meyers are great. There are also tons of talks on Youtube from conferences like CppCon, Meeting C++ and C++Now. 

 

For basic games you can look at Cinder or SFML. I'd stay away from something like Unreal or a while, they add tons of stuff on top of the language and trying to learn both at the same time is probably a horrible idea. 

 

But most importantly, just remember to always be const correct and if you ever want to use a linked list, don't.

[Nuluvius]

8 hours ago, fizzlesticks said:

With an audience full of mostly career C++ devs, only 14% were able to figure out what was wrong, there's only 3 lines of real code it can't be that hard right?

Surprising... it's glaringly obvious that the output buffer is not being flushed. See std::endl.

[Dat Guy]

A valuable experience is working with Lisp at least once.

[Claryn]

13 hours ago, fizzlesticks said:

Find some website that teaches modern C++ (c++11 / 14,) the STL, smart pointers etc., not C with classes and start from the beginning. There's going to be a lot of things you see and think you already know because Java does something similar but I assure you they're very different (at least in most cases.) It's extremely easy to kill the performance of C++ with very minor mistakes. Of course you can do that in all languages but things like Java are much more forgiving.

 

For example, I attended a talk and the presenter gave a little quiz to see how many people could find the problem with the follow code

 

  Reveal hidden contents

#include <string>
#include <map>
#include <iostream>

int main(int argc, char* argv[])
{
	std::map<std::string, int> map;
	map["aaa"] = 0;
	map["bbb"] = 1;
	//a ton more map inserts

	for(const std::pair<std::string, int>& item : map)
	{
		std::cout << item.first << " = " << item.second << '\n';
	}

	return 0;
}

 

With an audience full of mostly career C++ devs, only 14% were able to figure out what was wrong, there's only 3 lines of real code it can't be that hard right? The language is full of this kind of stuff, modern C++ helps a ton though. So basically there is no quick or easy when learning C++, just take it slow and make sure you understand things as you go along.

 

As for resources, they're meant for more experienced C++ers but the Effective C++ books by Scott Meyers are great. There are also tons of talks on Youtube from conferences like CppCon, Meeting C++ and C++Now. 

 

For basic games you can look at Cinder or SFML. I'd stay away from something like Unreal or a while, they add tons of stuff on top of the language and trying to learn both at the same time is probably a horrible idea. 

 

But most importantly, just remember to always be const correct and if you ever want to use a linked list, don't.

Thanks! I'll check out TutorialPoints C++ tutorials, it seems to cover the basics. What libraries/frameworks are good for small GUI applications? Polygons and vector-graphics are nice (or bitmap)

[fizzlesticks]

8 hours ago, Nuluvius said:

Surprising... it's glaringly obvious that the output buffer is not being flushed. See std::endl.

It's being flushed when the program ends, a manual flushing isn't necessary here. Unless you actually need guaranteed real time output, std::endl is usually a mistake.

[fizzlesticks]

3 hours ago, Claryn said:

Thanks! I'll check out TutorialPoints C++ tutorials, it seems to cover the basics. What libraries/frameworks are good for small GUI applications? Polygons and vector-graphics are nice (or bitmap)

Qt is probably the most popular choice for GUIs though I've never tried any of their drawing features. Or if all you want is a window then using something like OpenGL to draw you can use SDL or GLFW.

[Nuluvius]

2 hours ago, fizzlesticks said:

It's being flushed when the program ends, a manual flushing isn't necessary here. Unless you actually need guaranteed real time output, std::endl is usually a mistake.

I would argue that in general leaving a buffer in an unpredictable state is a mistake. Fine if the program is closing/simplistic but otherwise no its definitely bad practice.

 

In any event the real problem is that the code is copying the key and the value.