Sentry SFF Case breaks Indiegogo goal in 12 minutes

[Dackzy]

1 minute ago, darksable said:

Actually, most of the "ITX" versions of the 1070 are terribly designed and don't fit this case anyways - they're much, much taller than PCIe spec.

 

The case will happily accommodate a full-sized GPU, be it reference or a reasonably sized open air cooler.

 

You seem to have made a snap judgement and are wanting to stick to it, but... Who in the world is going to spend $200 on a case for a media PC?

 

Personally I'm going to stuff it with the fastest 65w quad core out there, a full-sized GTX 1070 or 1080, and use it as my main rig - while being able to throw it in my bag and take it over to a friends'.

 

As for it being hot, look at some of the thermal tests we've done. Unless you're doing something sensationalist, like Linus did, and using a 22-core CPU and 250W GPU, heat is not going to be a problem.

um dude you do know that people are buying cases just becauses of their looks and size, and then they don't care that much about the price, it is actually pretty common to see a HTPC with maybe a i5 and a expensive case, because it needs to look good in the living room.

 

Snap judgement?Nah m8, this is my experience with extremely small systems.

 

You did read what magetank said right? You would have to delid a i7 and no OC, so my judgement of that case is pretty good, unless you are willing to delid a CPU, then you are basically stuck with mid range and HTPCs.

 

We've done? I have done nothing with you, if you are talking about LTT videos (which there is still no we in), then take those with a huge grain of salt.

Heat will be a issue, heat is ALWAYS a issue with smaller systems, do you have any experience with small systems? 

[MageTank]

2 minutes ago, Dackzy said:

um dude you do know that people are buying cases just becauses of their looks and size, and then they don't care that much about the price, it is actually pretty common to see a HTPC with maybe a i5 and a expensive case, because it needs to look good in the living room.

 

Snap judgement?Nah m8, this is my experience with extremely small systems.

 

You did read what magetank said right? You would have to delid a i7 and no OC, so my judgement of that case is pretty good, unless you are willing to delid a CPU, then you are basically stuck with mid range and HTPCs.

 

We've done? I have done nothing with you, if you are talking about LTT videos (which there is still no we in), then take those with a huge grain of salt.

Heat will be a issue, heat is ALWAYS a issue with smaller systems, do you have any experience with small systems? 

It wasn't just a delid. I had to undervolt as well. Stock VID for my CPU was 1.23, I undervolted to 1.14 to be able to handle those loads without hitting thermal junction. I might even mod this heatsink to handle a 120mm or 140mm fan to get more airflow in the case while maintaining the same static pressure. 

 

Sure, you can probably get away with running a 6700k without a delid if all you do is game, and don't do anything really stressful, but that wasn't enough for me. Pre-delid on my 6600T running at 4.5ghz, I was still hitting 80C with AVX completely disabled. I imagine gaming load wouldn't be much lower than that. On Elder Scrolls Online, this i7 hits about 50C across the board, so for gaming it's perfectly fine. 

 

The case I am building will be smaller than the sentry, at about 4-4.5L. I'll let you know how thermals hold up in that kind of form factor, but I certainly expect a delid to be required on these Sentrys if they plan on using just the stock cooler and no undervolts. 

[Misanthrope]

A legit awesome case, was tempted to break my no crowd funding rule. 

[Dackzy]

2 minutes ago, MageTank said:

It wasn't just a delid. I had to undervolt as well. Stock VID for my CPU was 1.23, I undervolted to 1.14 to be able to handle those loads without hitting thermal junction. I might even mod this heatsink to handle a 120mm or 140mm fan to get more airflow in the case while maintaining the same static pressure. 

 

Sure, you can probably get away with running a 6700k without a delid if all you do is game, and don't do anything really stressful, but that wasn't enough for me. Pre-delid on my 6600T running at 4.5ghz, I was still hitting 80C with AVX completely disabled. I imagine gaming load wouldn't be much lower than that. On Elder Scrolls Online, this i7 hits about 50C across the board, so for gaming it's perfectly fine. 

 

The case I am building will be smaller than the sentry, at about 4-4.5L. I'll let you know how thermals hold up in that kind of form factor, but I certainly expect a delid to be required on these Sentrys if they plan on using just the stock cooler and no undervolts. 

well that really just backs up what I said, how many people are going to delid and undervolt their CPU? Not many..

Well gaming can stress the CPU a lot, depending on the game and you used a 35w CPU you OCed to be in the 60w'ish range?

Kaby lake is also hotter than skylake, so I expect the kaby lake version to be hotter than what you have. So I don't expect anything more than a i5 and a reference 1070 (that 1070 might even be stretching it)

 

That case is going to be very interresting, are you planning to get space for a dGPU? I might be interrested in such a case for a media center.

[darksable]

33 minutes ago, Dackzy said:

um dude you do know that people are buying cases just becauses of their looks and size, and then they don't care that much about the price, it is actually pretty common to see a HTPC with maybe a i5 and a expensive case, because it needs to look good in the living room.

 

Snap judgement?Nah m8, this is my experience with extremely small systems.

 

You did read what magetank said right? You would have to delid a i7 and no OC, so my judgement of that case is pretty good, unless you are willing to delid a CPU, then you are basically stuck with mid range and HTPCs.

 

We've done? I have done nothing with you, if you are talking about LTT videos (which there is still no we in), then take those with a huge grain of salt.

Heat will be a issue, heat is ALWAYS a issue with smaller systems, do you have any experience with small systems? 

 

Fair enough, I suppose - in that case, it can be both a media PC or a powerful gaming PC.

 

I'll get my credentials down right away: I've been building small form factor computers since I knew enough to design and build them on my own. I've built 4 or 5 SFF gaming computers, including a custom wooden one with watercooling housed in a separate radbox. I've currently got a 10 liter, 16TB server, and my gaming PC is in a Raven RVZ01 with a modded NH-L12 to cool my i5. I'm active on small form factor forums, and have been for upwards of six years.

 

I read what magetank said, but it was apparently different from what you read; he's using a cooler that isn't extremely good at dissipating heat, on a "K" sku chip, under operating conditions that stress the CPU a lot more than normal. He also chose to delid.

 

If you use a 65W i7, like the i7-7700, and use a good heatsink on it like the two I mentioned, it's not going to have any issues whatsoever. By "the thermal tests we've done," I'm talking about the community that's excited about this case.

 

With a modded Dynotron cooler, which simply involved using long screws and nuts to secure the cooler, temperatures stayed around 60C during a CPU stress test. Multiple tests have been done using the intel stock heatsink, seeing about 65C during gaming.

 

As for the graphics card, you're talking without a basis of reference. The case has been tested extensively and is compatible with many different aftermarket cards. The difference between an open-air cooler and a blower cooler in this case is about 2 degrees less on the GPU and 3 degrees more on the CPU.

 

It handles a gtx 1080 without any issues whatsoever, so again... from where are you basing these assumptions? You seem to have just decided that it's going to be hot and a bad option no matter what, when all the evidence goes thee other way.

 

If you want to write off the case as only being good for an HTPC, go ahead, you're free to do that and there's no need for you to buy one. But why disparage it and try and discourage others from using it the way it was designed?

[flibberdipper]

1 hour ago, Bleedingyamato said:

Picture for comparison please?

 

What's so great about that CPU cooler that modding it to attack to other socketed motherboards would be worth it?

 

I mean surely there are other low height CPU coolers that would do just fine in this case without the extra work to make them compatible?

 

Like a Cryorig C7.  I've got one on my 6700K currently (stock speed so no OC) and it seems to work well enough.  If I got this case assuming a C7 would fit and I didn't find a better option, quieter and better performing, then I'd probably use a C7.  

 

 

 

 

 

Don't see why you couldn't just google it but w/e 

[MageTank]

15 minutes ago, darksable said:

 

Fair enough, I suppose - in that case, it can be both a media PC or a powerful gaming PC.

 

I'll get my credentials down right away: I've been building small form factor computers since I knew enough to design and build them on my own. I've built 4 or 5 SFF gaming computers, including a custom wooden one with watercooling housed in a separate radbox. I've currently got a 10 liter, 16TB server, and my gaming PC is in a Raven RVZ01 with a modded NH-L12 to cool my i5. I'm active on small form factor forums, and have been for upwards of six years.

 

I read what magetank said, but it was apparently different from what you read; he's using a cooler that isn't extremely good at dissipating heat, on a "K" sku chip, under operating conditions that stress the CPU a lot more than normal. He also chose to delid.

 

If you use a 65W i7, like the i7-7700, and use a good heatsink on it like the two I mentioned, it's not going to have any issues whatsoever. By "the thermal tests we've done," I'm talking about the community that's excited about this case.

 

With a modded Dynotron cooler, which simply involved using long screws and nuts to secure the cooler, temperatures stayed around 60C during a CPU stress test. Multiple tests have been done using the intel stock heatsink, seeing about 65C during gaming.

 

As for the graphics card, you're talking without a basis of reference. The case has been tested extensively and is compatible with many different aftermarket cards. The difference between an open-air cooler and a blower cooler in this case is about 2 degrees less on the GPU and 3 degrees more on the CPU.

 

It handles a gtx 1080 without any issues whatsoever, so again... from where are you basing these assumptions? You seem to have just decided that it's going to be hot and a bad option no matter what, when all the evidence goes thee other way.

 

If you want to write off the case as only being good for an HTPC, go ahead, you're free to do that and there's no need for you to buy one. But why disparage it and try and discourage others from using it the way it was designed?

If you can find me another cooler it's size that can dissipate heat better than it's capable of doing, i'd appreciate it. God knows the Cryorig C7 and Noctua L9i can't hold a candle to the VC45. You are also very quick to say this cooler isn't good at dissipating heat, but I find it perfectly capable of doing so, under loads the likes of which you would never want to encounter under normal use. Granted, I find it's 135w rating to be misleading (My chip pulls 130w under 48k FFT and is already near thermal junction) it's still better than any alternatives with it's thin size.

 

While your experience and expertise is appreciated, it does not make you the be all, end all on the subject. I too have been doing SFF builds for years, and I also know the limitations that these cases impose on the component selection.

 

Also, your modded Dynatron cooler is basically the exact same thing as the VC45. A thin vapor chamber with a fan strapped to it. If anything, it would actually perform worse than the VC45. Copper is great at conducting and moving heat, but bad at letting go of it. You are essentially trading slower thermal balance for saturated long lasting heat. I'd rather take the nickel-plated copper base with soldered aluminum fins.  Less weight and better sustained performance over long sessions.

[darksable]

10 minutes ago, MageTank said:

If you can find me another cooler it's size that can dissipate heat better than it's capable of doing, i'd appreciate it. God knows the Cryorig C7 and Noctua L9i can't hold a candle to the VC45. You are also very quick to say this cooler isn't good at dissipating heat, but I find it perfectly capable of doing so, under loads the likes of which you would never want to encounter under normal use. Granted, I find it's 135w rating to be misleading (My chip pulls 130w under 48k FFT and is already near thermal junction) it's still better than any alternatives with it's thin size.

 

While your experience and expertise is appreciated, it does not make you the be all, end all on the subject. I too have been doing SFF builds for years, and I also know the limitations that these cases impose on the component selection.

 

Also, your modded Dynatron cooler is basically the exact same thing as the VC45. A thin vapor chamber with a fan strapped to it. If anything, it would actually perform worse than the VC45. Copper is great at conducting and moving heat, but bad at letting go of it. You are essentially trading slower thermal balance for saturated long lasting heat. I'd rather take the nickel-plated copper base with soldered aluminum fins.  Less weight and better sustained performance over long sessions.

 

Oh, I don't deny that it can dissipate heat well under good conditions, it's just had some serious issues. ID-Cooling apparently has some QA issues, because a lot of reviewers found that their sample was extremely concave - to the point that even with increased mounting pressure and what was probably too much TIM, the center of the base still wasn't making contact with the CPU.

 

The dynatron cooler is very similar, but it's built to much tighter standards, since it's designed for servers, and has a slightly larger area, which is its biggest advantage.

 

I wasn't trying to use experience as a cudgel, and I apologize if it came across that way. My knowledge of SFF computing was questioned and I was simply providing my credentials to provide experience as to the issues we face.

 

When it comes to extremely small CPU coolers, I would probably defer to the Coolteck LP53. This image is from testing done in the Dan A4, but that case has the same 48mm cooler restriction as the Sentry faces.

 

 

 

That being said, these tests are on a ~65W CPU, not a 95W one. It's going to prove difficult to handle that much heat in a small area, and I'd almost look to custom hardline watercooling to be able to cram a radiator in somewhere.

[Dackzy]

18 minutes ago, darksable said:

SNIP

Not K sku, T sku.

Those readings are also not going to be the same in this case, why? Because the case in your pic has a lot more air around it and will have better airfllow. The temps will be higher. 

Gratz on building 4 or 5 SFF gaming computers, not that any of that impresses me at all...

 

Sure you can put a 1080 in it, will it boost a lot? Nope.

Oh yeah you don't know me, I basically build and fixes PCs for a living, I am way above those 5 SFF builds you have done.

 

"in this case" do you mean the build you linked to? or are you talking about the case in this thread? If it is the case this thread is about, then please show me those max 2-3c more, by going from reference to open air, open air would also just throw more hot air into the system, which would heat up the CPU even more. Also if the open air is running 2-3c hotter than the reference, then that is super bad.   

 

I am calling this a HTPC and mid range gaming PC (i5 + 1070 and worse)

[MageTank]

1 minute ago, darksable said:

 

Oh, I don't deny that it can dissipate heat well under good conditions, it's just had some serious issues. ID-Cooling apparently has some QA issues, because a lot of reviewers found that their sample was extremely concave - to the point that even with increased mounting pressure and what was probably too much TIM, the center of the base still wasn't making contact with the CPU.

 

The dynatron cooler is very similar, but it's built to much tighter standards, since it's designed for servers, and has a slightly larger area, which is its biggest advantage.

 

I wasn't trying to use experience as a cudgel, and I apologize if it came across that way. My knowledge of SFF computing was questioned and I was simply providing my credentials to provide experience as to the issues we face.

 

When it comes to extremely small CPU coolers, I would probably defer to the Coolteck LP53. This image is from testing done in the Dan A4, but that case has the same 48mm cooler restriction as the Sentry faces.

 

 

 

 

 

I was aware of the QA issues of the VC45 when I ordered it, as I was also in the Hard forum thread discussing it. My unit was perfectly flat, but it did have a dent on the outer edge of the cooler itself. It seems to have no impact on performance though, so I won't complain. 

 

Also, that image is dated. Dondan went back to test the Cryorig C7, which outperformed the LP53 in his tests. 

 

Having personally tested the C7, and finding it's performance to be less than that of the VC45, I just couldn't go with it. However, seeing as the VC45 is no longer sold in the US (must be shipped from Asia on Newegg and Amazon) and with the aforementioned QA issues, it's probably the best cooler one could get in it's form factor. It's still only 47mm thick, the same thickness as the stock intel cooler, and is only $30. My only real gripe with the C7, is it's use of a proprietary fan. I feel like a fan with better static pressure could easily push that cooler to be better than the VC45, as the VC45's fan is superb. 44.3CFM and 3.24mmH2O SP, vs the C7's 40.5CFM and 2.8mmH2O. Both are the exact same dimensions (92x92x15), it's just Cryorig uses a custom mount for theirs. I suppose it wouldn't be too difficult to mod the C7 to support a better fan though.

[darksable]

2 hours ago, Dackzy said:

Not K sku, T sku.

Those readings are also not going to be the same in this case, why? Because the case in your pic has a lot more air around it and will have better airfllow. The temps will be higher. 

Gratz on building 4 or 5 SFF gaming computers, not that any of that impresses me at all...

 

Sure you can put a 1080 in it, will it boost a lot? Nope.

Oh yeah you don't know me, I basically build and fixes PCs for a living, I am way above those 5 SFF builds you have done.

 

"in this case" do you mean the build you linked to? or are you talking about the case in this thread? If it is the case this thread is about, then please show me those max 2-3c more, by going from reference to open air, open air would also just throw more hot air into the system, which would heat up the CPU even more. Also if the open air is running 2-3c hotter than the reference, then that is super bad.   

 

I am calling this a HTPC and mid range gaming PC (i5 + 1070 and worse)

You can decide to call it whatever you like. There's no reason to be so antagonistic nor to talk trash about something you clearly have no interest in using as it's being presented. As for the difference in coolers, go back and read what I wrote again. An open-air cooler leads to a cooler GPU but a slightly hotter CPU, exactly as expected. You can get exact numbers in this video at about 4:20 in.

 

I also wouldn't exactly call an i5 + a 1070 a mid range gaming PC, as it'd be perfectly acceptable for even 1440p gaming. Builds too much beyond that really are for people who either a) Have a lot of disposable income and want something ridiculous or b) only care about their e-peen.

 

 

 

Now then, MageTank. Apologies on the image; I thought I had seen a more recent one, but couldn't find it on a cursory examination. I'll have to look into those coolers more - last I had seen, the LP53 with a noctua fan and the C7 with a noctua fan performed about equal. Either way, I don't know that we can get a definitive answer until the cases are in backers' hands and we start seeing some benchmarks with different coolers. Personally, I'll probably go for the Dynotron mod, but when I have a bit of spare change, I'll pick up the other popular options and do a comparison. Cheers for the respectful discussion, it was both interesting and informative.

 

[Dackzy]

2 minutes ago, darksable said:

You can decide to call it whatever you like. There's no reason to be so antagonistic nor to talk trash about something you clearly have no interest in using as it's being presented. As for the difference in coolers, go back and read what I wrote again. An open-air cooler leads to a cooler GPU but a slightly hotter CPU, exactly as expected. You can get exact numbers in this video at about 4:20 in.

 

I also wouldn't exactly call an i5 + a 1070 a mid range gaming PC, as it'd be perfectly acceptable for even 1440p gaming. Builds too much beyond that really are for people who either a) Have a lot of disposable income and want something ridiculous or b) only care about their e-peen.

I never ever trash talked the case, I have simply stated what I thought the case could handle in terms of thermals, that video just shows that I am pretty spot on, since those temps are with 6500 and 1060. 

That video also shows that all of the GPUs are at the thermal throttling point which is 82-83c for pascal, it also shows that the CPU temps went up with 3.5-4.5c when using a open air card vs a reference.

So yeah that video just backs up my thought about this case being suitable for mid range PCs and HTPCs

 

Also if you have read what I said early, I have a intrest in these types of cases, or else I wouldn't want to know how magetank does with his 4-4.5L case, when he builds it.

 

So a i7 is just e-peen? Well there is only 10% difference in FPS between a i5 and i7 running at stock in GTA V at 1080p. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2015-intel-skylake-core-i7-6700k-review

A 1080 is also not e-peen, by that logic then the 980 was e-peen back when it was new. Some people just want the extra eye candy and some people just want to hit those 144 FPS at 1440p high/ultra settings, that has nothing to do with e-peen. Some of the people that buys a 1080 and 1080ti when that is a thing also uses all of that power for work and such.

a i5 is midrange and a 1070 is what Nvidia calls high end, but it is in the low end of that, so would you rather have that I call it high/mid range?

[MageTank]

46 minutes ago, darksable said:

Now then, MageTank. Apologies on the image; I thought I had seen a more recent one, but couldn't find it on a cursory examination. I'll have to look into those coolers more - last I had seen, the LP53 with a noctua fan and the C7 with a noctua fan performed about equal. Either way, I don't know that we can get a definitive answer until the cases are in backers' hands and we start seeing some benchmarks with different coolers. Personally, I'll probably go for the Dynotron mod, but when I have a bit of spare change, I'll pick up the other popular options and do a comparison. Cheers for the respectful discussion, it was both interesting and informative.

 

No problems. I share the same enthusiasm for ITX builds, and have spent the last 2 years designing a case of my own. I've actually considered the Dynatron option myself before going with the VC45, since it was cheaper and widely available, but after speaking with a few other friends of mine, I went with the VC45. Thankfully my unit (aside from that dent) has no issues and gets the job done.

 

As for the whole "i5 1070" argument, I completely agree. Nobody NEEDS an i7 for gaming, and honestly, nobody NEEDS a 1070. It all really depends on the rest of your component selection. I know friends that will take a lower end GPU just to invest the money in a Freesync or G-Sync monitor, that end up with a better experience than I do with my GTX 1070 and 100hz Korean panel. Having overclocked the Core i5 6600T to 4.5ghz, and even comparing that to it's stock all-core boost of 3.5ghz, I must say, 3.5ghz wasn't bad at all, even on a 35w chip. Granted, there was an issue with a TDP power-target throttle, but you can turn that feature off in your bios on Z series boards. 

 

Look at mobile laptops and how slow those processors are compared to the current T SKU's, and how they game just fine. People often take CPU's far more seriously than they need to. As long as you have decent clock speeds (3ghz+ in my opinion), enough threads, and an architecture with decent IPC, you are pretty much covered. Yes, higher clock speeds will ultimately improve minimum framerates, but for the most part, the experience won't be unplayable.

 

25 minutes ago, Dackzy said:

That video also shows that all of the GPUs are at the thermal throttling point which is 82-83c for pascal, it also shows that the CPU temps went up with 3.5-4.5c when using a open air card vs a reference.

Pascal is an odd one depending on which card you go with. If I use EVGA's stock fancurve, my card fan is completely off until 50C, and hits the 82-83C "boost throttle limit" that you speak of, but the fans only run at roughly 60%. Using a very basic, old fan curve (10C =10%, 20C =20%, ...,...,...70C =70%, 80C =100%) I never go beyond 74C in the most demanding titles at 1440p on my 1070 SSC. This is overclocked 2050 on the core, and another +500mhz on memory with unlocked power limit and voltage slider at max. I wouldn't mind knowing if they used the cards stock fan curves, or if they used a more common fan curve that focused more on performance, and less on total silence.

 

With modern overclocking software, you can specify specific fan curves per game too, so you can keep your silence when doing HTPC tasks, and then shift to performance depending on the game. Even at 100%, the fans on this ACX 3.0 card is tolerable in my opinion.

 

25 minutes ago, Dackzy said:

So a i7 is just e-peen? Well there is only 10% difference in FPS between a i5 and i7 running at stock in GTA V at 1080p. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2015-intel-skylake-core-i7-6700k-review

I wouldn't exactly say i7's are just for bragging rights, but they are also not required in order for something to be considered a gaming PC. If you compare strictly price:performance in gaming only, the i5's win quite handily. That is why you see far more i5 gaming rigs than i7's. Let's not forget that HT also adds heat (about 15C in my personal tests under synthetic AVX load) so in ITX cases, an i5 will be more commonly used. It's a fair compromise for performance, heat, and cost. I've contemplated turning HT off several times with my rig before ultimately delidding because the heat was just too much. I don't see the average user going around and delidding their CPU's, and throwing highly conductive thermal compound on the bare die. It's not for the faint of heart.

 

25 minutes ago, Dackzy said:

A 1080 is also not e-peen, by that logic then the 980 was e-peen back when it was new. Some people just want the extra eye candy and some people just want to hit those 144 FPS at 1440p high/ultra settings, that has nothing to do with e-peen.

This would mostly be subjective, but I will still point something out. A 1080, in the current market, makes no sense to me. It's still not strong enough to be considered a 4k gaming card, and it's also a little too much to fit within the G-Sync windows of most 1440p monitors. Sure, the 165hz monitors are an exception to this rule, but for most others, it's quite easy to fall outside of them unless you stack copious amounts of AA to remain within the window. It has the weakest price:performance currently in the high end, and offers very little over the 1070 in terms of gaming that would warrant the cost. A 1070 coupled with G-Sync would yield the exact same performance experience as a 1080 coupled with G-Sync, at a much lower cost. Now, this doesn't mean the 1080 is worthless, or only for bragging rights, but it does make it's overall appeal questionable in my eyes. Who am I to talk though? I totally plan on stuffing a Titan XP in my ITX case, just to show that I can, lol. 

 

25 minutes ago, Dackzy said:

a i5 is midrange and a 1070 is what Nvidia calls high end, but it is in the low end of that, so would you rather have that I call it high/mid range?

Relatively speaking, the consumer i7's are also midrange if you broaden the spectrum to the prosumer platform. I get tired of the "low, medium, high" labels put on hardware. I tend to focus on comparing the experiences, rather than the costs of a product. The consumer i7's can outperform the prosumer i7's in gaming while remaining cheaper. Price, to me, doesn't dictate quality. Quality comes from the overall experience, and you can have a great experience on lower-end hardware if your gaming ecosystem is done right. As I said before, cheaper systems with Freesync/G-Sync are having a much smoother experience than I am with my 6700k, 1070 and 100hz korean panel. 

[Drak3]

@MageTank I heard that if you give Drak3 a dremel, a drill, some shiny 90/ L shaped aluminum, and beer, he can add some water cooling support....

[MageTank]

Just now, Drak3 said:

@MageTank I heard that if you give Drak3 a dremel, a drill, some shiny 90/ L shaped aluminum, and beer, he can add some water cooling support....

Water cooling doesn't bode well with travelling, but that's a sight i'd pay to see nonetheless. What brand of beer do you prefer? lol. 

[Drak3]

1 minute ago, MageTank said:

Water cooling doesn't bode well with travelling, but that's a sight i'd pay to see nonetheless. What brand of beer do you prefer? lol. 

Don't know yet, I've had 2 different types of beer and hated them both. I'm also under the legal age to drink, so shh.......

 

It'd also likely look like a Node 202 with a rack under it. How nice you want it depends on how opposed you are to extra weight for decorative paneling.

[MageTank]

1 minute ago, Drak3 said:

Don't know yet, I've had 2 different types of beer and hated them both. I'm also under the legal age to drink, so shh.......

 

It'd also likely look like a Node 202 with a rack under it. How nice you want it depends on how opposed you are to extra weight for decorative paneling.

Weight means nothing to me. My custom box is going to be extremely dense. I wish I still had my sketchup model saved, as it's much easier to show people rather than explain. I might take the time and redo that again to show people what I have planned. The hard part is finding the space to build it all. I don't exactly have a tool shed with a work bench to build on.

[Sauron]

@SaperPL @ZombiPL Congratulations! Best wishes for full scale production!

 

@darksable consider adding a link to the original thread on this project, there's still discussion going on 

 

[Drak3]

1 minute ago, MageTank said:

Weight means nothing to me. My custom box is going to be extremely dense. I wish I still had my sketchup model saved, as it's much easier to show people rather than explain. I might take the time and redo that again to show people what I have planned. The hard part is finding the space to build it all. I don't exactly have a tool shed with a work bench to build on.

My work space is my small room and a back yard. My work bench has a 48" 4K Vizio on it, and it's going to be turned into a regular desk the second it's warm enough for me to wear a t-shirt outside.

Weight also mostly means nothing for me, I'd have a 900D with a custom loop that'd require an extension to the case if space weren't an issue.

[Dackzy]

3 minutes ago, MageTank said:

SNIP 

I could not agree more, but I think the 1080 is for the people that want high settings at 1440p and get 100fps+ all the time or close to.

Yes 82-83c is where the boost goes down, but if the cooling isn't good enough for it to running at stock speeds, then 82-83c is also the point where it will go below stock speeds.

Yes a consumer i7 is also what I would call mid range, if you look at the prosumer marked, but some people get mad if I call their i7 for mid range  

I have found that HT adds more in the 16-18c range.

 

Also I think that we can with no problem agree that this case is more for a i5 + 1060 gaming setup, than a i5 + 1070 or i7 + 1070.

[MageTank]

11 minutes ago, Dackzy said:

I could not agree more, but I think the 1080 is for the people that want high settings at 1440p and get 100fps+ all the time or close to.

Yes 82-83c is where the boost goes down, but if the cooling isn't good enough for it to running at stock speeds, then 82-83c is also the point where it will go below stock speeds.

Yes a consumer i7 is also what I would call mid range, if you look at the prosumer marked, but some people get mad if I call their i7 for mid range  

I have found that HT adds more in the 16-18c range.

 

Also I think that we can with no problem agree that this case is more for a i5 + 1060 gaming setup, than a i5 + 1070 or i7 + 1070.

I agree that an i5 would be better off in a case like this (simply because of how hot CPU's get, and how limited you are in choice of coolers) but GPU's are a different story. We are talking about a 120w TDP 1060, vs a 150w TDP 1070. The reference coolers on both cards are more than capable of cooling these GPU's, even in the smallest of ITX environments (as long as intake ventilation is not completely obstructed) and AiB's tend to save the more robust cooling solutions for the higher tier cards. Now, I have no doubt that if given the exact same cooling solutions, that a GTX 1060 would run cooler, as a 30w TDP delta is nothing to scoff at. That being said, it's unlikely to see the exact same cooling implementation of a higher end 150w card, on a mid-tier 120w card. Looking at the 1070 in my node 202, it has millimeters of clearance from the side panel, we are talking less than an inch here, and it still does just fine, even with axial fans.

 

Now, if the subject were changed from a thermal perspective, to a potential risk perspective, yes, I would throw a cheaper card in my ITX box if it's used primarily for traveling. Reason being: You don't want to potentially drop your case with your expensive GPU, or worse, have it stolen from you. I personally will be having two PC's. One for travel, one for permanent home use. Once all is said and done, and I prove my proof of concept to people, I'll likely swap out these parts for cheaper alternatives. 

 

Either way, I say people have the right to throw whatever hardware they want in their cases. As long as it's designed right (and if you ask my personal opinion, this Sentry case is designed quite well) and your choice in hardware is smart, you won't run into any thermal issues. It should go without saying that anyone investing in an ITX build, should not come into it with overclocking on their mind. There is a reason I run my 6700k at stock, undervolted, even while being delidded. Sometimes, you can't beat physics, lol. 

[Sauron]

5 minutes ago, Dackzy said:

Yes a consumer i7 is also what I would call mid range, if you look at the prosumer marked, but some people get mad if I call their i7 for mid range  

It depends on the use case, for games for example going any higher than a consumer i7 not only gives no benefit, it actually can cause performance losses in some scenarios due to the lower clock speeds (games still only use 4 CPU cores or fewer for the most part). So in that case I'd call it top end unless you're into 3/4 way crossfire.

 

Besides, in the grand scheme of things if you consider ALL cpus intel currently offers in terms of pure performance (and price) consumer i7s could actually be considered low end. For some workloads they are outright abysmal compared to some of the higher end xeons.

[darksable]

See, that I can totally agree with, Dackzy.

 

I imagine that a lot of people are going to pair this case with an i5 and a 1060.

 

However, with some (admittedly serious) attention paid to thermals, I think there will be plenty of people stuffing i5s and 1070-1080s in it. In particular, I think the 1070, once the awful FE cooler is scrapped and the far superior GTX 1080 cooler is strapped on, will perform wonderfully.

[Drak3]

3 minutes ago, MageTank said:

Looking at the 1070 in my node 202, it has millimeters of clearance from the side panel, we are talking less than an inch here, and it still does just fine, even with axial fans.

Good to know. My main rig got an upgrade from the G1 Gaming 1070 to an Armor OC 1080, and I was debating slapping the 1070 into my Node 202 build for Dolphin 4K and just being able to run my machine at 4K60.

[darksable]

20 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Don't know yet, I've had 2 different types of beer and hated them both. I'm also under the legal age to drink, so shh.......

 

It'd also likely look like a Node 202 with a rack under it. How nice you want it depends on how opposed you are to extra weight for decorative paneling.

I suggest Killian's Red. It isn't offensive at all, but actually has flavor, unlike the bottled dog pee that passes for beer amongst hipsters.

 

Also, if you do end up designing something to put watercooling in this case, I'd love to see the designs!