STX or go external?

[Chronic]

I currently own a pair of DT770s with a DGX soundcard. I'm looking at upgrading to the STX but have heard high praise about the ODAC line. 

Was wondering if you get more for your money if you go external than you do with the STX? My budget is £200 with the STX currently listed around £145. 

 

At this price point, go external (if so then what?) or stick with the STX?

 

Thanks

[Turkatron]

e10 if you must get something. just save the dosh

[MayflowerElectronics]

Never get a sound card. If you want, we can get you an o2/ODAC delivered for almost exactly  £200. After that you'll be set for life.

 

http://www.mayflowerelectronics.com/objective2-amplifer-with-odac.html

[DaftBehemoth]

I have an STX and I can't complain about any aspect of it, but I do often hear that external options are better. The ODAC looks like a great option. I think you'll be happy either way

[EmoRarity]

I have an STX and I can't complain about any aspect of it, but I do often hear that external options are better. The ODAC looks like a great option. I think you'll be happy either way

O2* 

ODAC is just the dac, you need an amp too. :3

E10/E07k if you more control over your EQ and such. 

[Chronic]

Never get a sound card. If you want, we can get you an o2/ODAC delivered for almost exactly  £200. After that you'll be set for life.

 

http://www.mayflowerelectronics.com/objective2-amplifer-with-odac.html

Why never get a sound card? Is there a significant difference in performance between an STX and an ODAC?

[Turkatron]

Why never get a sound card? Is there a significant difference in performance between an STX and an ODAC?

Because drivers that manufacturers never maintain/update anymore.

[EmoRarity]

Why never get a sound card? Is there a significant difference in performance between an STX and an ODAC?

Very much so, (Educate yourself, you want an amp not a dac, since an amp will actually help you.) But you really "need" nothing more then an E10. Or FiiO product in general.

[Chronic]

Very much so, (Educate yourself, you want an amp not a dac, since an amp will actually help you.) But you really "need" nothing more then an E10. Or FiiO product in general.

 

The Objective2 w/ ODAC is what I'm looking at getting. Would the dac not improve the sound quality? I thought amps generally made the sound louder? 

[EmoRarity]

The Objective2 w/ ODAC is what I'm looking at getting. Would the dac not improve the sound quality? I thought amps generally made the sound louder? 

A dac - digital to analog converter - is only useful if you music is encoded in something other then 16bit/48khz, which never happens. 

And amp is where most of your tonality and sound fidelity comes from, my recommendation if you HAVE TO HAVE! a standalone dac...don't bother, save the dough for more music to listen to your amp and headphones with. 

[faszinierend]

A dac - digital to analog converter - is only useful if you music is encoded in something other then 16bit/48khz, which never happens.

...

That's wrong... there's a lot to be gained with a good DAC quality wise(and more than with an amp). And digital to analog conversion is definitely always useful, because without that you would hear nothing...

 

@Chronic: It would definitely be an improvement. I doubt the STX or Fiio would sound much different tough.

If you go with an internal sound card the drivers really can be a big problem, had to retire my Auzentech Prelude because of that. So if you don't absolutely need dolby headphone or what ever build in surround emulation go with an external sound card.

[EmoRarity]

That's wrong... there's a lot to be gained with a good DAC quality wise(and more than with an amp). And digital to analog conversion is definitely always useful, because without that you would hear nothing...

 

@Chronic: It would definitely be an improvement. I doubt the STX or Fiio would sound much different tough.

If you go with an internal sound card the drivers really can be a big problem, had to retire my Auzentech Prelude because of that. So if you don't absolutely need dolby headphone or what ever build in surround emulation go with an external sound card.

Not really....yes you need a dac, no you don't need anything more a 16/48, so dropping anything more then about $50 is a waste of money. Now...amps a different story. 

[ShearMe]

That's wrong... there's a lot to be gained with a good DAC quality wise(and more than with an amp). And digital to analog conversion is definitely always useful, because without that you would hear nothing...

 

@Chronic: It would definitely be an improvement. I doubt the STX or Fiio would sound much different tough.

If you go with an internal sound card the drivers really can be a big problem, had to retire my Auzentech Prelude because of that. So if you don't absolutely need dolby headphone or what ever build in surround emulation go with an external sound card.

 

+1 to the guy with 9 posts. Woah.

[faszinierend]

@EmoRarity:

You can't exactly reproduce a digital signal and it's not meant to be reproduced exactly because that would sound weird . But because of this, different DACs produce different signals and cheap DACs aren't as "tuned" as better DACs. For the most part amps just add volume and while some will sound nicer this is not where the main quality gain happens..

[h264]

A dac - digital to analog converter - is only useful if you music is encoded in something other then 16bit/48khz, which never happens. 

And amp is where most of your tonality and sound fidelity comes from, my recommendation if you HAVE TO HAVE! a standalone dac...don't bother, save the dough for more music to listen to your amp and headphones with. 

 

well most of the improvement comes from the HEADPHONES and the MUSIC FILES you play, but having a transparent amp with a low ouput impedance helps if you already have all those things.

 

 

The Objective2 w/ ODAC is what I'm looking at getting. Would the dac not improve the sound quality? I thought amps generally made the sound louder? 

 

AMPs and DACs ideally just make your headphones sound like they should.  Don't go out thinking you can take $50 headphones and make them sound better with a soundcard or an AMP/DAC.  Note that LESS THAN IDEAL amplifiers, like the ones in soundcards, can definitely sound different, but that's not necessarily better.

 

 

It would definitely be an improvement. I doubt the STX or Fiio would sound much different tough.

If you go with an internal sound card the drivers really can be a big problem, had to retire my Auzentech Prelude because of that. So if you don't absolutely need dolby headphone or what ever build in surround emulation go with an external sound card.

 

 exactly

[ShearMe]

@EmoRarity:

You can't exactly reproduce a digital signal and it's not meant to be reproduced exactly because that would sound weird . But because of this, different DACs produce different signals and cheap DACs aren't as "tuned" as better DACs. For the most part amps just add volume and while some will sound nicer this is not where the main quality gain happens..

 

Of note, however, is that most DACs cost less than $0.25

[mr moose]

Of note, however, is that most DACs cost less than $0.25

Plus it's not really the dac that is the issue as they are all almost identical, it's the processor that drives them that is crucial.  That's the device that determines SNR, sampling range and which codecs it can process.

[ShearMe]

Plus it's not really the dac that is the issue as they are all almost identical, it's the processor that drives them that is crucial.  That's the device that determines SNR, sampling range and which codecs it can process.

 

IF they require a microcontroller - some DAC units leave out the microcontroller all together and the product is left on whatever setting the chip's default is! You can change the setting in windows, but the DAC never actually receives the instruction.  :rolleyes:

[mr moose]

IF they require a microcontroller - some DAC units leave out the microcontroller all together and the product is left on whatever setting the chip's default is! You can change the setting in windows, but the DAC never actually receives the instruction.  :rolleyes:

All dacs have processors,  without them all they would do would be to try and convert the raw data stream into an analogue signal. 

 

AS you can see in this very rudimentary diagram, the dac is an 8bit where inputs a1 to a8 are the parallel data that it converts to audio,  however in order to get this parallel data the DAC needs a processor that can take the bit stream from either usb, data stream from a cd players sensor or the pci bus and decode it from whatever transport protocol it is using (like aes/ebu) to the parallel data the dac can convert. 

 

[ShearMe]

All dacs have processors,  without them all they would do would be to try and convert the raw data stream into an analogue signal. 

 

AS you can see in this very rudimentary diagram, the dac is an 8bit where inputs a1 to a8 are the parallel data that it converts to audio,  however in order to get this parallel data the DAC needs a processor that can take the bit stream from either usb, data stream from a cd players sensor or the pci bus and decode it from whatever transport protocol it is using (like aes/ebu) to the parallel data the dac can convert. 

 

[img snip]

 

Oh, we're talking about two different things. Yes, there's a processor in most DACs, but there's also a microcontroller needed to tell the processor on the DAC what to do - otherwise the processor just does it's default job (usually CD quality or whatever). Some microcontrollers have ADCs and DACs on them, some don't. http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/28628/why-dont-microcontrollers-generally-have-on-chip-dacs

[mr moose]

Oh, we're talking about two different things. Yes, there's a processor in most DACs, but there's also a microcontroller needed to tell the processor on the DAC what to do - otherwise the processor just does it's default job (usually CD quality or whatever). Some microcontrollers have ADCs and DACs on them, some don't. http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/28628/why-dont-microcontrollers-generally-have-on-chip-dacs

cool.

[Chronic]

That's wrong... there's a lot to be gained with a good DAC quality wise(and more than with an amp). And digital to analog conversion is definitely always useful, because without that you would hear nothing...

 

@Chronic: It would definitely be an improvement. I doubt the STX or Fiio would sound much different tough.

If you go with an internal sound card the drivers really can be a big problem, had to retire my Auzentech Prelude because of that. So if you don't absolutely need dolby headphone or what ever build in surround emulation go with an external sound card.

 

Thanks for educating a newbie - I think I'll invest in the amp/odac combo in that case. It should last me plenty!

 

Would I use the line out from my dgx soundcard or from the onboard? Or does it not make a difference?

[ShearMe]

Thanks for educating a newbie - I think I'll invest in the amp/odac combo in that case. It should last me plenty!

 

Would I use the line out from my dgx soundcard or from the onboard? Or does it not make a difference?

 

If you get a DAC, you will be using a digital output, not an analog line out - ie your soundcard would then be pointless.

 

What's wrong with your current DGX? Should be fine with the Beyerdynamics.

[Chronic]

If you get a DAC, you will be using a digital output, not an analog line out - ie your soundcard would then be pointless.

 

What's wrong with your current DGX? Should be fine with the Beyerdynamics.

 

Haha, that was a pretty obvious answer actually. The dgx is ok - the DT770s are loud enough for sure but I feel like it lacks clarity and want better quality sound. Do you think there wouldn't be much difference? I hoped there would be between a £20 card and £180 amp/DAC

[ShearMe]

Haha, that was a pretty obvious answer actually. The dgx is ok - the DT770s are loud enough for sure but I feel like it lacks clarity and want better quality sound. Do you think there wouldn't be much difference? I hoped there would be between a £20 card and £180 amp/DAC

 

LOL, does the E10 really cost that much over there? You might want to consider an O2 amp +/- an ODAC for that kind of money.

There might be a difference, but I doubt it would be huge <- coming from a guy with a $700 Amp/DAC stack. :rolleyes: Then again, you might just have a bad soundcard. If you're willing to front the cash for a FiiO E10, it's worth trying especially if you can return it if there's no improvement.