Home Network Advice (iTunes / Steam on NAS)

[Taldren]

With my itunes and steam library nearing a Terabyte each, I am finding the need to move it off my main computer with its little USB3 WD Passport backup drive onto a NAS configured with backup.  

 

My goals are to:

1. Provide a network backup location for each of my devices.

2. If possible to have a single itunes library location I could access with each of my iTunes authorized devices. My hope is that when I am downstairs I won't need to run up to my main computer to launch itunes in order to watch apple tv down stairs. Instead I could just launch itunes from my tablet, laptop, ect and stream through homeshare.

3. If possible to have a single steam/origin/battlenet/game library location for all my PC devices. The systems I game on are my main 2 computers and my hope is that with the RAID 10 + SSD Cache and the 10GBE connection, the performance hit would be minimal. Plus I wouldn't have duplicated data across multiple computers. 

4. Provide remote access to all my documents , pictures , ect

5. Provide data redundancy and backup for all of the above.

 

This is how I envisioned my network when I was done:

 

Now for the questions:

1. As far as I can tell, iSCSI isn't intended for multiple computers being able to access a single LUM. Most of the itunes/game libary solutions I have seen use iSCSI/LUM to do it. Is there any way to make this work? Or am I limited to created different LUMs for each device and duplicating the same data over and over again?

2. Any advice on the setup of my NAS? The breakdown of drive setup is just from what I have gathered from my own research. The primary array is 4x4TB WD Red 5400 RPM drives in a RAID 10 which is then syncronized daily to a 8TB WD Red drive. I was planning to add 2xSamsung 850 Pro SSDs for cache as I heard it makes a big difference for gaming off a NAS.

3. Any advice to optimize my network as given in the above diagram? Again, this is just what I have gathered from my own research.

[suchamoneypit]

I don't want to answer specific questions because I haven't set up such a system before so I can't give you reliable advice, but I will say the 10gigabit connection is really unnecessary.  a single gigabit line could support dozens of 1080p streams all at once without any issues. Every device could be streaming content at once and not saturate the line unless its something crazy like 4K 60FPS streams. It would only be beneficial if your moving massive files between devices, a LOT. And on top of that its unlikely your storage devices can even copy data at that speed.

[Taldren]

6 minutes ago, suchamoneypit said:

Double Post

[Taldren]

1 minute ago, suchamoneypit said:

I don't want to answer specific questions because I haven't set up such a system before so I can't give you reliable advice, but I will say the 10gigabit connection is really unnecessary.  a single gigabit line could support dozens of 1080p streams all at once without any issues. Every device could be streaming content at once and not saturate the line unless its something crazy like 4K 60FPS streams. It would only be beneficial if your moving massive files between devices, a LOT. And on top of that its unlikely your storage devices can even copy data at that speed.

Thanks for the reply. The NAS comes with 2 10GBE and costs just as much as the Synology 1815+. I also have a couple of 10GBE nics I had salvaged, so I am basically getting it for free.

[samiscool51]

get a pice of paper and draw how everything is going to conect up,

here's a example:

then use the devices and make a rough draft in real life, then make changes to improve it

this method helps a lot when planing your network

 

[Taldren]

39 minutes ago, samiscool51 said:

get a pice of paper and draw how everything is going to conect up,

here's a example:

then use the devices and make a rough draft in real life, then make changes to improve it

this method helps a lot when planing your network

 

I did that already. It is in my original post.

[Eniqmatic]

7 hours ago, Taldren said:

Now for the questions:

1. As far as I can tell, iSCSI isn't intended for multiple computers being able to access a single LUM. Most of the itunes/game libary solutions I have seen use iSCSI/LUM to do it. Is there any way to make this work? Or am I limited to created different LUMs for each device and duplicating the same data over and over again?

2. Any advice on the setup of my NAS? The breakdown of drive setup is just from what I have gathered from my own research. The primary array is 4x4TB WD Red 5400 RPM drives in a RAID 10 which is then syncronized daily to a 8TB WD Red drive. I was planning to add 2xSamsung 850 Pro SSDs for cache as I heard it makes a big difference for gaming off a NAS.

3. Any advice to optimize my network as given in the above diagram? Again, this is just what I have gathered from my own research.

1. iSCSI should indeed not be used for multiple machines accessing a single LUN unless you have a cluster aware system. You can imagine the chaos of 1 machine making changes to files when it isn't aware of another machine doing the same thing. A better option for you unfortunately sounds like using CIFS or NFS. I don't think there is any issues with doing this that can't be worked around.

2. Depends, what underlying hardware and OS are you going to be using? The QNAP one listed above or was that just a place holder? Your SSD's won't need to be particularly massive if you are looking to save money, they are just used like a fast cache.

3. Your diagram is pretty simple, but nicely laid out. So not much to change as there aren't many different configurations you can really have!

[Taldren]

8 hours ago, Eniqmatic said:

1. iSCSI should indeed not be used for multiple machines accessing a single LUN unless you have a cluster aware system. You can imagine the chaos of 1 machine making changes to files when it isn't aware of another machine doing the same thing. A better option for you unfortunately sounds like using CIFS or NFS. I don't think there is any issues with doing this that can't be worked around.

2. Depends, what underlying hardware and OS are you going to be using? The QNAP one listed above or was that just a place holder? Your SSD's won't need to be particularly massive if you are looking to save money, they are just used like a fast cache.

3. Your diagram is pretty simple, but nicely laid out. So not much to change as there aren't many different configurations you can really have!

Thank you for the reply:

1. Do you recommend that the iTunes library be CIFS/NFS and doing separate LUNs for games? What is the read penalty with CIFS/NFS in comparison to iSCSI? When should iSCSI be used over CIFS/NFS?

2. The hardware is what I listed in the diagram. The target OS is Windows 10.  It is actually $100 cheaper than the Synology 1815+ and has more memory, better CPU, and includes 2 10GBE SFP+ ports.

3. Thanks. I was doing my best to eliminate the need for a 10GBE switch.

 

New Qs:

4. Speaking of 10 GBE SFP+, there are two types of copper cables for direct connect; Active and Passive. How do I know which to use?

5. Do you have any suggestion on how to partition up the 8TB RAID 10 for my use? Basically I need iTunes, Games (Steam/Blizzard/Origin), Libraries (Documents/Pictures/Downloads/ect), and System Backups. Over all my systems we have 3 user accounts (wife, child, and myself).

[Eniqmatic]

2 hours ago, Taldren said:

Thank you for the reply:

1. Do you recommend that the iTunes library be CIFS/NFS and doing separate LUNs for games? What is the read penalty with CIFS/NFS in comparison to iSCSI? When should iSCSI be used over CIFS/NFS?

2. The hardware is what I listed in the diagram. The target OS is Windows 10.  It is actually $100 cheaper than the Synology 1815+ and has more memory, better CPU, and includes 2 10GBE SFP+ ports.

3. Thanks. I was doing my best to eliminate the need for a 10GBE switch.

 

New Qs:

4. Speaking of 10 GBE SFP+, there are two types of copper cables for direct connect; Active and Passive. How do I know which to use?

5. Do you have any suggestion on how to partition up the 8TB RAID 10 for my use? Basically I need iTunes, Games (Steam/Blizzard/Origin), Libraries (Documents/Pictures/Downloads/ect), and System Backups. Over all my systems we have 3 user accounts (wife, child, and myself).

1.If I were you I would just use CIFS for everything. If you were to use iSCSI you should generally buy a separate switch for iSCSI traffic only, as it can quickly flood a network. I would keep it simple and start out with CIFS, see how you get on. There are no read penalties per say with CIFS that I can think of, they will work as fast as the underlying hardware allows them to. iSCSI is generally used for SAN storage, among other things. It can be a bear at times to work with though, depending what you are doing.

4. I need to counter this with a question, because I've just realised it's something you may not have considered, how far away in terms of distance will computer 1 and 2 be from the NAS?

5. I'm not really sure how the QNAP software works so I wouldn't be able to describe to you accurately how I would do it. But essentially create your volume, then create "datasets" or "datastores" or whatever it is that QNAP calls them for your more major use cases. Sorry that is so vague but as I say not sure how QNAP do it. But you can do it however you like!

[Taldren]

2 hours ago, Eniqmatic said:

1.If I were you I would just use CIFS for everything. If you were to use iSCSI you should generally buy a separate switch for iSCSI traffic only, as it can quickly flood a network. I would keep it simple and start out with CIFS, see how you get on. There are no read penalties per say with CIFS that I can think of, they will work as fast as the underlying hardware allows them to. iSCSI is generally used for SAN storage, among other things. It can be a bear at times to work with though, depending what you are doing.

4. I need to counter this with a question, because I've just realised it's something you may not have considered, how far away in terms of distance will computer 1 and 2 be from the NAS?

5. I'm not really sure how the QNAP software works so I wouldn't be able to describe to you accurately how I would do it. But essentially create your volume, then create "datasets" or "datastores" or whatever it is that QNAP calls them for your more major use cases. Sorry that is so vague but as I say not sure how QNAP do it. But you can do it however you like!

4. Between one and two meters away from the NAS. I have a home office with two desks, it would be between them next to our modem/router.

[Eniqmatic]

40 minutes ago, Taldren said:

4. Between one and two meters away from the NAS. I have a home office with two desks, it would be between them next to our modem/router.

Passive will probably be fine, it's generally a good idea to use active for lengths of around 4m+ as they have extra electronics inside of them to retain signal strength.

[Taldren]

Thank you so much for the help Eniqmatic. Seems what I need now is someone that knows the QNAP software. The problem I see now is how to setup the different partitions as I have some that are Global (itunes/steam/ect), some that are System based (backup location), and some that are User based (library folders). 

[Taldren]

Thank you so much for the help Eniqmatic. Seems what I need now is someone that knows the QNAP software. The problem I see now is how to setup the different partitions as I have some that are Global (itunes/steam/ect), some that are System based (backup location), and some that are User based (library folders). 

[Eniqmatic]

If you were able to show the software it will probably be quite easy. Basically all you need to do is create your different folders, then create CIFS share's that mount to those storage areas.

[Taldren]

I almost want to set up an active directory, which I have never done, so that wherever my wife or I log in we could get access to our library partition on the shares. I guess that would be overkill though. I don't own the QNAP yet, I was waiting on feedback on the setup before committing to any purchases.

[Eniqmatic]

Who cares if its overkill, if it interests you and its available to you, then why not!

[Taldren]

10 hours ago, Eniqmatic said:

Who cares if its overkill, if it interests you and its available to you, then why not!

You sir, are dangerous ... to my wallet.

[Eniqmatic]

57 minutes ago, Taldren said:

You sir, are dangerous ... to my wallet.

Ah sorry, thought it was something you already had