Origin PC Was Paid, Handsomely, To Remove AMD GPU Options.

[beebskadoo]

Although NVidia also have their Tegra division, as well as whatever unit designed Shield (probably some crossover there, but still).

They licence the design from ARM, they are ARM cores and a Geforce GPU.

[TechFan@ic]

AMD posted a $1.16 Billion dollar earnings for Q2 2013

Nvidia posted a $977.2 Million dollar earning for the same period.

So saying AMD is quite a bit bigger on earnings is false.

 

AMD employee count is 10,340

Nvidia Employee count is 7974

AMD is a bit bigger but keep in mind, AMD has CPU and GPU divisions while Nvidia's focus is mainly on GPU

I did not say earnings, I said monetarily, as in AMD as a whole is worth more than Nvidia, they own significantly more assets.

The graphics division alone (ATi) is worth more than 6 billion, and that's back in 2006.

And I did not want to start an argument, I was just responding to the ridiculous notion that

amd has no money, nvidia and intel could buy amd, dismantle and sell the assets.

[beebskadoo]

I did not say earnings, I said monetarily, as in AMD as a whole is worth more than Nvidia, they own significantly more assets.

The graphics division alone (ATi) is worth more than 6 billion, and that's back in 2006.

And I did not want to start an argument, I was just responding to the ridiculous notion that

Not arguing just pointing out flaw in you saying that AMD is 'Quite a bit bigger'. Trying to keep things honest and in perspective. 

Though Nvidia mainly focuses on Graphics rather than having a CPU market, they still have a similar size and post similar sometimes exceeding profits.

                                                                                                                                                                       

Though what @NeCrOmAnCiN said was truly ridiculous. 

[TechFan@ic]

Not arguing just pointing out flaw in you saying that AMD is 'Quite a bit bigger'. Trying to keep things honest and in perspective. 

Though Nvidia mainly focuses on Graphics rather than having a CPU market, they still have a similar size and post similar sometimes exceeding profits.

                                                                                                                                                                       

Though what @NeCrOmAnCiN said was truly ridiculous. 

Well from the employee figures you've provided AMD has about a quarter more than Nvidia, that's a bit bigger isn't it ?

In any case I think this is a impotent topic of discussion, can't see anything good coming out of it.

[beebskadoo]

Well from the employee figures you've provided AMD has about a quarter more than Nvidia, that's a bit bigger isn't it ?

In any case I think this is a impotent topic of discussion, can't see anything good coming out of it.

Quite a bit is different from a bit.

[Lukiose]

Quite a bit is different from a bit.

If two-hundred fucking million dollars is 'a bit' bigger when your total assets are 1 billion, you need some serious sense of scale dude. If you total up both totals then effectively it's 60% AMD and 40% Nvidia, don't need to be so anal about being rebutted.

 

Because if 20% is 'a bit' then please give me 'a bit' of your money.

 

AMD is significantly bigger, just that their products may not have such a huge gap.

Think of Apple vs Samsung in the smartphone market, Nvidia would be Apple in this case with quality[Let's admit it, quality but overpriced as shit] competitive products despite being considerably bigger.

[afa7336]

Through checking totals through various sites and numbers:

 

AMD Total Assets: 3.9B

Intel Total Assets: 85.66B

Nvidia Total Assets: 5.57B

 

Now total assets really isn't the best determining factor on who can buy who. That you would have to look at cash flow, and cash on hand. (Because you really can't buy a company while giving yourself, or part of yourself, away.) I'd have to check the numbers to see who has what, and whats current.

[Lukiose]

Through checking totals through various sites and numbers:

 

AMD Total Assets: 3.9B

Intel Total Assets: 85.66B

Nvidia Total Assets: 5.57B

 

Now total assets really isn't the best determining factor on who can buy who. That you would have to look at cash flow, and cash on hand. (Because you really can't buy a company while giving yourself, or part of yourself, away.) I'd have to check the numbers to see who has what, and whats current.

Woah, never expected that huge disparity between AMD/Nvidia vs Intel

Looks like being practically a Monopoly in the CPU business is quite something [All computers afterall lol]

[Wolfur]

I absolutely disagree, I think you get that vibe because of their powerful marketing, architecturally speaking AMD & Nvidia are neck & neck.

They're tied in gaming performance, AMD has 3X better compute performance but at the cost of slightly higher power consumption.

Nvidia is behind on compute because they chose so, to reduce power consumption.

If you give Nvidia & AMD exactly the same amount of space & time to work on a new chip, both will come out with chips that perform exactly the same per watt & per die area.

 

neck to neck you say?

 

Really?

 

Nvidia was supposed to release GK110 in 2012 as 680 at 500-600$ price point. they didnt... to this day. even titan isnt a full GK110. It took AMD 2 years to develop a GK110 equivalent card... EQUIVALENT. We still dont even know if it BEATS Titan.

 

Nvidia shot AMD with their Kepler architecture, let's hope AMD can do better next time but i doubt this, they are falling and they are falling hard with low amount of money for R&D.

[afa7336]

Woah, never expected that huge disparity between AMD/Nvidia vs Intel

Looks like being practically a Monopoly in the CPU business is quite something [All computers afterall lol]

 

Well, sorta. Total assets really only determine so much as far as that goes. You gotta remember, assets include EVERYTHING the company owns and operates. For instance if they have a special machine that does x, and is worth 1.1B, thats counted in. If they have a fleet of vehicles, thats counted in. I've been looking into cash flow (Which is a true indicator how well a company is doing), but there isn't really a set data date so I can get 2012 and 2013 numbers mixed in. That seems unfair, imo, to any numbers I throw up when you can't get a concrete date.

[TechFan@ic]

neck to neck you say?

 

Really?

 

Nvidia was supposed to release GK110 in 2012 as 680 at 500-600$ price point. they didnt... to this day. even titan isnt a full GK110. It took AMD 2 years to develop a GK110 equivalent card... EQUIVALENT. We still dont even know if it BEATS Titan.

 

Nvidia shot AMD with their Kepler architecture, let's hope AMD can do better next time but i doubt this, they are falling and they are falling hard with low amount of money for R&D.

AMD didn't develop a GK110 equivalent 2 years ago because they simply did not need to, not because they can't.

It has been AMD's long standing strategy to develop a mid-sized GPU for the enthusiast segment and use two of those in crossfire for the ultra enthusiast segment.

That's what AMD with the 7000 series, 6000 series,5000 series and the 4000 series and it continues to do so with the R290X.

Hawaii XT in the R9 290X is still significantly smaller than GK110 (424mm² vs 552mm²).

AMD is not falling behind in any way, in fact their 7000 series have been such a success that they've gained market share in the last quarter, while Nvidia lost market share.

[afa7336]

AMD is not falling behind in any way, in fact their 7000 series have been such a success that they've gained market share in the last quarter, while Nvidia lost market share.

 

They've lost a 3% market share roughly. Its not a huge deal actually. Markets fluctuate. And its not like 3% is THAT big when Nvidia still controls 62% of the market. So basically, quite a bit more then the 38% that AMD controls. Then you look at Q2 of last year and you realize that they were almost neck and neck and then Nvidia ran off with it. Ran off as in right now 22% bigger market.

[TERAFLOP]

They've lost a 3% market share roughly. Its not a huge deal actually. Markets fluctuate. And its not like 3% is THAT big when Nvidia still controls 62% of the market. So basically, quite a bit more then the 38% that AMD controls. Then you look at Q2 of last year and you realize that they were almost neck and neck and then Nvidia ran off with it. Ran off as in right now 22% bigger market.

http://www.afterdawn.com/news/article.cfm/2013/08/18/amd_gains_market_share_in_gpu_market

[afa7336]

http://www.afterdawn.com/news/article.cfm/2013/08/18/amd_gains_market_share_in_gpu_market

 

I'm going off Jon Peddie Research: I find its a better indicator for a direct comparison between AMD vs. Nvidia since it ONLY tracks discrete cards and doesn't include others.

 

 

From the article: JPR's AIB Report tracks computer add-in graphics boards, which carry discrete graphics chips. AIBs are used in desktop PCs, workstations, servers, and other devices such as scientific instruments. They may be sold directly to customers as aftermarket products, or they may be factory installed. In all cases, AIBs represent the higher end of the graphics industry using discrete chips and private high-speed memory, as compared to the integrated GPUs in CPUs that share slower system memory.

 

They've been tracking this for a long time, as well, so they've got stats on sales and such.

 

http://jonpeddie.com/publications/add-in-board-report/

[XionEternum]

Why is everybody getting a boner over Mantle and TrueAudio. Limited to AMD GPUs and HDMI for the audio so it will never take off and totally destroy nVidia like people are saying.

Actually, TrueAudio is not limited to HDMI. The cards that support it are supposedly coming with a proprietary connector for most common audio device connectors including USB. This was detailed in the livestream.

[XionEternum]

Origin responded to MaximumPC - probably because MaximumPC is...oh I don't know, a credible and non-bs spewing publication/site? :rolleyes:

http://www.maximumpc.com/origin_pc_now_dealing_exclusively_nvidia_graphics_claims_amd_gpus_are_problematic2013

 

 

 

the only thing worse than the garbage original article is how gullible people here are. or if they even read the article to see how laughable it is, instead of just reading the thread title

 

again - if a customer just spent thousands on a pre-built gaming PC because he doesn't know or care to learn how to do it himself - because believe it or not kids, some people just don't have the time/energy/or care enough to do it themselves and stay in tune with the market.

 

how do you explain to him that all his money spent still has flaws? driver issues, frame pacing, eyefinity woes, poor 4k support, etc etc. Do you tell the customer who just spent thousands that he has to deal with it and hope for a fix? You think customers would be happy with you? They don't care who's fault it is, they will still hate you for building it after all that money

 

some people here have no perception on how to run a business

Then the techs at Origin are idiots. I'm the primary system-builder for my area, and most of the systems I build are primarily AMD/AMD with few client-specific requests for Intel and/or nVidia. I've had VERY few complaints, and most of them involve Windows in some way as the source of the complaint. To remove AMD as a GPU provider means lost sales, and certainly more lost sales than any returns would warrant. Failure rates between the two manufacturers are nearly identical as well, and nobody can claim rare high-end setups like Eyefinity, 4K, or even CFX would have enough issues to also warrant removal of AMD GPUs and the lost revenue from that. I have to replace SATA cables and RAM more often than I run into GPU failures.

[LAwLz]

Then the techs at Origin are idiots. I'm the primary system-builder for my area, and most of the systems I build are primarily AMD/AMD with few client-specific requests for Intel and/or nVidia. I've had VERY few complaints, and most of them involve Windows in some way as the source of the complaint. To remove AMD as a GPU provider means lost sales, and certainly more lost sales than any returns would warrant. Failure rates between the two manufacturers are nearly identical as well, and nobody can claim rare high-end setups like Eyefinity, 4K, or even CFX would have enough issues to also warrant removal of AMD GPUs and the lost revenue from that. I have to replace SATA cables and RAM more often than I run into GPU failures.

My guess is that you're <20, and you business is most likely no way near as big as Origin. Unless your sampling size is several thousand (which I highly doubt yours is, probably not even 100) then you're not really in any position to make claims about reliability. Your sample size is simply too small and it becomes anecdotal evidence.

Trust me, Origin would not remove AMD GPUs if they didn't make money (somehow) from doing so. They are a business, and all they (should and most likely does) care about is making money.

 

 

 

Actually, TrueAudio is not limited to HDMI. The cards that support it are supposedly coming with a prorietary connector for most common audio device connectors including USB. This was detailed in the livestream.

Really? So they will use a proprietary port on the back of the card? I don't really see how it would work over USB either. I'll look into it and get back.

[XionEternum]

My guess is that you're <20, and you business is most likely no way near as big as Origin. Unless your sampling size is several thousand (which I highly doubt yours is, probably not even 100) then you're not really in any position to make claims about reliability. Your sample size is simply too small and it becomes anecdotal evidence.

Trust me, Origin would not remove AMD GPUs if they didn't make money (somehow) from doing so. They are a business, and all they (should and most likely does) care about is making money.

 

 

 

Really? So they will use a proprietary port on the back of the card? I don't really see how it would work over USB either. I'll look into it and get back.

There is no proprietary port, but talk of a proprietary connector that IIRC they said was for one of the DVI ports.

No, I am nearing my 30th birthday, and have been studying and researching PC hardware for more than 8 years now. Yes, I have a small office setup and run it myself. My sample-size not withstanding, I include general publicly available information as well alongside my personal experience to reinforce my point. Linus himself also pointed out that failure rates are nearly identical. His source is likely from having worked for NCIX and knows RMA rates between the two. The ONLY viable consistent problem with AMD GPUs is slow driver development, and many drivers actually perform worse than previous versions. I do keep tabs on this and advise my clients not to update AMD GPU drivers until notified. Simple solution, you'ld think a company as large as OriginPC would've thought of it.