1st countdown came to an end! Valve announced the Steam OS

[SMURG]

Yes, but a PC has alot of benifits over the Console that makes the waiting worth.

But are the benifits of SteamOS big enough ??

Look at the Situation with GTA 5 we have to wait Months to get the Game, but we will probably get then DX11,better Peformance,higher Res,higher res Textures,Mods and so on.

But what would be the benifit from SteamOS over Windows ??

 

Well for a start the OS is going to run much lighter if it's anything like other Linux distros (and going by the announcement page this is something Valve are trying to leverage) which is going to mean higher frame rates before you even get into anything else. Besides, I don't think SteamOS is intended to replace Windows, I think it's intended for its own, totally different platform. You wouldn't put Windows on a living room PC, you'd put SteamOS on it.

Sure, you might have to wait for Game X to come out for SteamOS, but the market SteamOS is intended for is somewhere between consoles and PCs. A Steambox would have the living room emphasis and multimedia functionality of a console, with a UI designed for gamepads like on a console, but would be upgradeable and tinkerable like a PC. If you're a person who likes to game on the couch but is more of a tech-head who yearns for more performance than conventional consoles offer, the idea of a Steambox could be quite appealing. There isn't anything else offering that kind of product, which could make the wait worthwhile.

Even if you're a conventional PC gamer who occasionally wants to play games on the couch it has it's merits - install SteamOS on something like the Raspberry Pi and use that to stream from your main Windows desktop. In that scenario you don't even care about the wait for SteamOS support because you can play it on your Windows machine in the meantime.

[Humbug]

But what would be the benifit from SteamOS over Windows ??

For you and I probably not much at the moment apart from slightly better performance and security.

 

The benefits would be mostly for Valve, for other game developers and publishers, and for hardware vendors. It's good for guys like Origin and Steam because they won't have to worry anymore about the windows direction becoming more apple-like (which threatens other digital distributors). For hardware vendors they have a free OS which means they can minus the windows license cost from their prebuilt gaming PCs; which is critical if they ever want to compete directly with consoles. And that's what Valve wants at the end of the day- for PCs to compete against consoles in the living room.

[TymmVonD]

SteamOS...I've read it's a CO-operating system. So...if this is placed on the PS4(if "defeating" Microsoft is the goal), I can see this moving way faster; but, overall it will come down to a few developers early adopting. Then after the numbers are analyzed, the rest of the developers will follow suit or continue with windows.

 

Also, if SteamOS will become an app on PS4 like Netflix or Hulu; and has SteamOS exclusives like Portal3, LFD3, console players would be forced to experiment with it.

 

I just got into the PC universe in Feb 2013, I was not going to pre order anything, not knowing if I would be staying or going to "next gen" console. I am staying with PC, but my need for SteamOS on PS4 will help me bring my oldest console buddies over to PC.

 

Cross platform multiplayer will end the fixed hardware gaming era. With PC components, it isn't far from Pay to Win.

[Humbug]

SteamOS...I've read it's a CO-operating system. So...if this is placed on the PS4(if "defeating" Microsoft is the goal), I can see this moving way faster;

Although technically feasible Sony would never agree to this. It puts them in direct competition with PC gaming. The same code would work on both and developers wouldn't even need to port games across. The PS4's status would be reduced to that of just another pre-built gaming PC. No more exclusives- PS4 games work on PC and vice versa.

[nothingspecial]

Has anyone thought that the second Steam announcement and the AMD event being on the same day might not be a coincidence?

 

:unsure: 

[TymmVonD]

Although technically feasible Sony would never agree to this. It puts them in direct competition with PC gaming. The same code would work on both and developers wouldn't even need to port games across. The PS4's status would be reduced to that of just another pre-built gaming PC. No more exclusives- PS4 games work on PC and vice versa.

But hypothetically, exclusives would be tied to OS. I don't think it matters(#s wise) if we use an OS exclusively. Facebook doesn't care if we also use MySpace(oh god). Adoption success will be measured in users. If Sony exclusively has SteamOS in the fixed hardware gaming(living room) market(as long as there is no Steam Box), it's huge for them. Especially since this announcement will still be fresh when consumers are choosing their hardware of choice.

[TymmVonD]

If we think a second about Android custom ROMs like the announced CyanOS, is it perfectly legal for Valve to release a SteamOS backdoor exploit/installer for the PS4 without Sony's cooperation? Will consumers have options when it comes to consoles?

 

CyanOS is only a thing, because of the support of consumers "hacking" their Android devices.

[Xorbot]

Steam Machines

[Humbug]

But hypothetically, exclusives would be tied to OS. I don't think it matters(#s wise) if we use an OS exclusively. Facebook doesn't care if we also use MySpace(oh god). Adoption success will be measured in users. If Sony exclusively has SteamOS in the fixed hardware gaming(living room) market(as long as there is no Steam Box), it's huge for them. Especially since this announcement will still be fresh when consumers are choosing their hardware of choice.

Yes but SteamOS will not be tied to any hardware. It would mean you can download steamos from Valve for free and use it to play ps4 games on your PC. Sony won't tolerate that.

[TymmVonD]

Yes but SteamOS will not be tied to any hardware. It would mean you can download steamos from Valve for free and use it to play ps4 games on your PC. Sony won't tolerate that.

No no no no no. You understood me in reverse. I was getting at playing Steam/PC games on PS4, not Sony games on PC. Though, that would be nothing short of amazing. Metal Gear on PC.

 

I know alot of my friend's will buy a PS4. Teksyndicate said Linux can be installed on a piece of bread, meaning SteamOS could be installed on a PS4. And to further translate, a $399 gaming PC.

[Humbug]

No no no no no. You understood me in reverse. I was getting at playing Steam/PC games on PS4, not Sony games on PC. Though, that would be nothing short of amazing. Metal Gear on PC.

 

I know alot of my friend's will buy a PS4. Teksyndicate said Linux can be installed on a piece of bread, meaning SteamOS could be installed on a PS4. And to further translate, a $399 gaming PC.

Yes but then no developer would need to make games for PS4's native OS. They can just make PC games for steamOS, and sell them to PC gamers and PS4 users. Which means Sony has no control over their platform and it becomes an open PC. That's why I said they won't like it. Developers will start targeting it.

[TymmVonD]

Yes but then no developer would need to make games for PS4's native OS. They can just make PC games for steamOS, and sell them to PC gamers and PS4 users. Which means Sony has no control over their platform and it becomes an open PC. That's why I said they won't like it. Developers will start targeting it.

Which is probably why Sony removed the ability install 2nd OS on the early PS3 models. I'm not sure, but does Sony have rights to use DirectX, or is it OpenGL just like Linux? There may be no difference at all in game ports. Just like games for WIndows and Xbone.

[TymmVonD]

Searching "PS4 DirectX" in Google. One-third of the sites claim PS4 natively runs DirectX 11.1, 1/3 modified DirectX, and last third says OpenGL.

 

I think all is still speculation. I do remember a statement from Microsoft claiming that because of DirectX, Xbone would be closer in game performance to PS4.

[silencerbob]

Unless you mod the ps4, its unlikely they will let you put Linux on it... And that's IF it can be modded. Fingers crossed it can be done.. Coz the hardware is fairly good for its price... And you know its gonna get hacked like day 1. Of course you would lose all online support and multiplayer. Which is why M$/ Sony harp on about how much u need to be online.

[SMURG]

SteamOS...I've read it's a CO-operating system. So...if this is placed on the PS4(if "defeating" Microsoft is the goal), I can see this moving way faster; but, overall it will come down to a few developers early adopting. Then after the numbers are analyzed, the rest of the developers will follow suit or continue with windows.

 

Also, if SteamOS will become an app on PS4 like Netflix or Hulu; and has SteamOS exclusives like Portal3, LFD3, console players would be forced to experiment with it.

 

I just got into the PC universe in Feb 2013, I was not going to pre order anything, not knowing if I would be staying or going to "next gen" console. I am staying with PC, but my need for SteamOS on PS4 will help me bring my oldest console buddies over to PC.

 

Cross platform multiplayer will end the fixed hardware gaming era. With PC components, it isn't far from Pay to Win.

I think you really missed the point of what they meant by "cooperating system". If you actually read what they say under that header on the announcement page, you'll see what I mean. What Valve were trying to get at there is that it is an open platform where the user can change any aspect of the hardware or software they want (i.e. the OS is cooperative with what the user wants to do). There is also an indication that Valve will have no part in deciding what can or cannot be marketed on the platform, saying "content creators can connect directly to their customers".

None of that has anything to do with cooperation with other OS's, although the whole thing about it being an open platform means that Valve would have no issue with what you're talking about. The trouble is that Sony would have a big problem with it, and you can bet that installing Linux on the PS4 is locked down like hell.

[Humbug]

What Valve were trying to get at there is that it is an open platform where the user can change any aspect of the hardware or software they want (i.e. the OS is cooperative with what the user wants to do). There is also an indication that Valve will have no part in deciding what can or cannot be marketed on the platform, saying "content creators can connect directly to their customers".

At least some people get it. These are non-windows based gaming PCs. It stands to benefit Valve because of their Steam distribution channel but it also stands to benefit Origin, Uplay and the rest of the PC gaming world by expanding PC more aggressively.

 

Loads of people all over the Internet are totally confused about what this is, and a lot of people think it's a console. I think Valve has a lot of work to do to make their messaging clear especially for the less tech savvy gamers.

[tedjani]

does this mean that steamOS will replace windows for gamers tell me guys are you going to do that

[SMURG]

does this mean that steamOS will replace windows for gamers tell me guys are you going to do that

No. At least not for the foreseeable future. Read previous posts in this thread to see what Valve are actually getting at with this.

SteamOS is intended to complement Windows as an OS for gamers. The expectation seems to be that most PC gamers would stay on Windows but that some would also have a SteamOS box that can stream their gameplay to the TV for the games which are not yet available on Linux. By creating a viable Linux gaming platform, Valve hopes to increase the number of games which run on it, and maybe, then and only then will there be any chance that SteamOS (or whatever future variant thereof) will replace Windows for gamers.

Before that happens we may start to see people who only run a Steambox because they like to game exclusively on the couch but prefer the increased performance and upgradeability which he SteamOS brings over consoles. Like I said though, that's not Valves primary goal for SteamOS, and certainly not one which will be realised within the next few years.

Personally, I want to know if I can stick this on a Raspberry Pi

[TheProfosist]

You missed the part where AAA titles are going to be on SteamOS as early as 2014. The requirements would be game dependent, much like it already is with a Windows desktop. The difference is, you can build your own machine and put SteamOS on it, as opposed to just buying a Steambox with SteamOS on it. Since SteamOS is free, just about anyone can develop a commercial hardware solution. 

 

As for the streaming issue - a large number of games are already compatible with Linux (Valve said something along the lines of 200). Future AAA titles will come to Linux as part of the release. Older AAA titles may or may not get ported (Metro Last Light will be, Metro 2033 may be), depending on the complexity of the port. In-house streaming is a way around that as a temporary solution until such time as older games get successfully ported to Linux/SteamOS. 

 

Just because its a AAA title doesnt mean it wont be optimized for the most common option which be the lowest of the 3 tiers id this takes off. I really doubt theyl make a game that wont play across all steam box's that would defeat the point of having once below what can play it then. If im building a PC why would i run steam OS on it as that would be restricting what it can do. Why wouldnt I run linux with steam or windows with whatever I wanted at that point?

 

How many of those 200 arent valves and how many of them are AAA tiles? What your bringing up is marketing. Until companies start coming out saying theyll be supporting it and OEMs start announcing their steam boxes. I think there is definitely going to be resistance going to OpenCL from DirectX unless this Steam OS/Seam Box ting takes off. thing is in order for it to take off they need the games. I also dont see a game being ported unless it has a pretty large following to this day and they know they wont loose money by doing it. As for the streaming I still dont understand why I would stream from my PC to the Steam OS/Steam Box. If i played on my TV a bunch I would move my gaing desktop there or beef up a HTPC or if I just wanted to steam to my TV I would only was a device powerfull enough to stream and then have my desktop handle the rest. Logan talked about this in one of his videos recently but from what I can tell thats not the direction their going. For the most art to me is their looking to pull people over from consoles and become a console replacement. Also the people that their trying to pull over from consoles they probably dont PCs as powerful as the Steam Box their using so streaming from a desktop wont be used.

[TheProfosist]

build a gaming computer just got way cheaper.  B)

 

How so? Not having to buy windows?

 

 

 

Steam OS is based on Linux kernel. Half their work is cut for them right there. Probably Steam OS is nothing more than just a Gnome based skin over a entire Linux distro that they made, with added programs, if any.

 

To me I think its more like android. I guess it might be like Windows Media Center in Windows as well but will let you go to the "desktop"?

 

 

 

Read somewhere that it's Debian based.

So really what they did was take Ubuntu, remove a lot of the programs it comes with (like GIMP and other programs you won't need on a console) and then installed Steam on it, maybe another program as well to get the streaming working.

Want to test SteamOS? Install Ubuntu and install Steam, there is your SteamOS. Don't expect miracles just because it is Valve that are releasing it. It will still (at least for the next few years) have a very small amount of games compatible with it and the drivers will still be worse than the Windows ones.

 

If you ask me, this was obvious and I don't really see why people care that much. A few reasons why:

1) They are going to release a SteamBox so they need an OS for it. Doubt that they'd want to pay Microsoft for Windows licenses (and it wouldn't really feel like a console if it ran Windows), especially not since they have been pushing GNU/Linux for a while now.

2) It is just another GNU/Linux distro. It's not really anything special you can't already have. Like I said above, if you want to test it before release the just install Ubuntu and Steam and bam, SteamOS.

3) You will still need to use your PC that runs Windows to stream games (which takes up resources as well as reduce graphics and introduces much more input lag) because SteamOS doesn't support that many games (just look at how many of the really big games on Steam are compatible with GNU/Linux).

4) I doubt that the people over at the FSF will be happy about this, because it means that their beloved free software will be polluted with proprietary, closed source software and DRM, everything they are against (not that I care but it will displease a lot of GNU/Linux users).

 

Whoo someone who isnt just in awe and thinks its a miracle

 

 

 

I agree with some parts of this and not others. Is SteamOS just another Linux distro? Yes. Is it just going to be Ubuntu + Steam? No. The streaming functionality alone suggests that there many other elements to it, plus you can bet they'll have made changes to the UI to make it gamepad-friendly like with Big Picture.

I agree that this was no surprise though, we've known the Steambox was on its way and Gabe has outright said that any such device would be running Linux because he dislikes Windows (despite being the man behind DirectX...); I think it goes far beyond the licensing issue. I genuinely think Gabe wants to get away from Windows because it is becoming an increasingly more restrictive walled garden.

With the streaming thing, not only could it be extremely useful (install SteamOS on something like a Raspberry Pi, plug SteamPi into TV and play games on the couch without having to lug your PC back and forth if you want to play at your desk again later), but it's also mainly meant as a stop-gap. Game devs won't give their games OpenGL/Linux support until there is a sufficient market for games which have those things; what Valve are trying to do is create such a market. Valve are clearly in it for the long game with this one.

Agreed on the 4th point though. The purists are gonna see this as anathema ><

 

 

I dont know if theyll allow you to install it on a Rasberry Pi since its ARM and well probably wont meet their minimum requirements.

[Mooshi]

I'd respect MS again if they dropped out of the console business entirely, switch any exclusives to the PC, rework Windows to be as lightweight as a Linux distro and pushed aggressively what a proper PC can do with an ad campaign much better than the snarky Apple ones...those were just terribad.

 

GG Valve for putting on the pressure!

[Lazmarr]

I'd respect MS again if they dropped out of the console business entirely, switch any exclusives to the PC, rework Windows to be as lightweight as a Linux distro and pushed aggressively what a proper PC can do with an ad campaign much better than the snarky Apple ones...those were just terribad.

 

GG Valve for putting on the pressure!

Tbh I quite like windows 8, don't get why people are so fussed about thr start menu where all they did was make it fullscreen? Also Win 8 seems more responsive than win 7 for me and a lot less resource intensive.

Also microsoft are bringing quite a few Xbox exclusives to PC, like Titanfall etc.

 

Also no ms pro fanboy since I use Unbuntu occasionally and will probably be getting PS4 first; only reason I would get an X1 is for the kinect, also getting PS4 since it's cheaper and need some money for new AMD GPU

[TheProfosist]

reading that story on how doom got ported to windows got me wondering if valve has been visiting a few high profile devs and offering to port their games to Linux for free. I imagine that many devs would consider it a risk to do it themselves not knowing how it will sell. But if valve offered to do it for free it's a no-brainer. They know their game is in Good hands and they transfer the risk to valve- who can easily afford the man hours required. Obviously valve has limited resources so they can't do this for everyone but they may consider it worthwhile to do so for a couple of high profile AAA titles. Just to get the ball rolling..

 

Agree with the devs wouldnt consider the risk and publishers wouldnt consider the cost. If valve does it that would get the game going but would the best people to port it be the ones that made it? I mean i dont know how much would be involved switching from DirectX to OpenCL but its got to be a pretty good amount.

 

 

 

origin and uplay will be allowed to operate obviously.

 

Will they? Or will the do something on those tiles like is done on consoles?

 

 

 

Yes but will they even make a Version and will all of there new Games support it from Day 1??

 

not a chance this is going to be a process with many growing pains

 

 

 

With Day 1 I didn't mean the release date of SteamOs I mean the Release Date of the Games.

We already have that Situation on PC  where Games often come out Months later on our Platform like "GTA V"
And Mac's have the same problem where the games come a few Months after Windows release like "Sim City"

When a Game releases for Windows it has to be on the same day on SteamOS or else it just won't work.


 

 

Steam OS and Windows should release at the same time as places would just drop directX and use OpenCL. Though I wouldnt be surprised if there is still that delay to go to PC (Steam OS) as they probably be porting from consoles unless it a AAA title or one thatll be just as big or bigger on PC than console.

 

 

 

Yes, but a PC has alot of benifits over the Console that makes the waiting worth.
But are the benifits of SteamOS big enough ??

Look at the Situation with GTA 5 we have to wait Months to get the Game, but we will probably get then DX11,better Peformance,higher Res,higher res Textures,Mods and so on.
But what would be the benifit from SteamOS over Windows ??
 

 

"But what would be the benifit from SteamOS over Windows ??" This is what I have been asking. Also what benefit does it ive to those already gaming on PC?

 

 

 

Well for a start the OS is going to run much lighter if it's anything like other Linux distros (and going by the announcement page this is something Valve are trying to leverage) which is going to mean higher frame rates before you even get into anything else. Besides, I don't think SteamOS is intended to replace Windows, I think it's intended for its own, totally different platform. You wouldn't put Windows on a living room PC, you'd put SteamOS on it.

Sure, you might have to wait for Game X to come out for SteamOS, but the market SteamOS is intended for is somewhere between consoles and PCs. A Steambox would have the living room emphasis and multimedia functionality of a console, with a UI designed for gamepads like on a console, but would be upgradeable and tinkerable like a PC. If you're a person who likes to game on the couch but is more of a tech-head who yearns for more performance than conventional consoles offer, the idea of a Steambox could be quite appealing. There isn't anything else offering that kind of product, which could make the wait worthwhile.

Even if you're a conventional PC gamer who occasionally wants to play games on the couch it has it's merits - install SteamOS on something like the Raspberry Pi and use that to stream from your main Windows desktop. In that scenario you don't even care about the wait for SteamOS support because you can play it on your Windows machine in the meantime.

 

I dont think theyre trying to get eveyone to move to Steam OS for PC gaming. i think they are trying to get more people (console gamers) into "PC Gaming" (Steam). Also i have windows in the living room and it seems to be doing fine. I could install somethings to make it easier for others like XMBC or JRiver Media Center and put steam into "Big Picture Mode" but for me and my friends its working great. O I am still using WMC for recoding TV using a cable card because I dont have much of a choice with that.

 

I think Valve is aiming for a Steam Box to replace a console in many peoples homes.

 

I like the streaming for casual games though i think your still going to need at a bare minimum a low end apu since Valve has said nothing about Steam OS being compatible with ARM.

 

 

 

SteamOS...I've read it's a CO-operating system. So...if this is placed on the PS4(if "defeating" Microsoft is the goal), I can see this moving way faster; but, overall it will come down to a few developers early adopting. Then after the numbers are analyzed, the rest of the developers will follow suit or continue with windows.

 

Also, if SteamOS will become an app on PS4 like Netflix or Hulu; and has SteamOS exclusives like Portal3, LFD3, console players would be forced to experiment with it.

 

I just got into the PC universe in Feb 2013, I was not going to pre order anything, not knowing if I would be staying or going to "next gen" console. I am staying with PC, but my need for SteamOS on PS4 will help me bring my oldest console buddies over to PC.

 

Cross platform multiplayer will end the fixed hardware gaming era. With PC components, it isn't far from Pay to Win.

 

I dont know what you read or where you read it but that is not what this is or anything close. I dont think cross platform is coming its been tried in the past Microsoft even tried it with Vista and the X360 which ended shorty after being introduced.

[TheProfosist]

Searching "PS4 DirectX" in Google. One-third of the sites claim PS4 natively runs DirectX 11.1, 1/3 modified DirectX, and last third says OpenGL.

 

I think all is still speculation. I do remember a statement from Microsoft claiming that because of DirectX, Xbone would be closer in game performance to PS4.

 

The APU in the PS4 is indeed capable of directX but the OS isnt because supposedly its a variant of linux.

[Humbug]

Will they? Or will the do something on those tiles like is done on consoles?

Valve have clearly stated that this will be an open platform where you can install any program you want, and you can even install another OS or modify the existing OS. i.e. it's still PC. Albeit one that goes through a certification process to ensure it's gaming grade.

 

Remember Valve stand to benefit from spreading PC gaming. For them to benefit they don't need to cut out other digital distribution channels. They make truckloads of money on windows while still co-existing with origin, uplay, D2D and others. They have also spent a lot of time over the last couple of years courting the Linux community. If they suddenly turn around and make this a closed platform, or if they ask that all apps have to go through valve then they will incur the wrath of the linux community, and they will make it more difficult for other publishers and application developers and this whole attempt will be doomed. Also PC gamers like us will turn against them for becoming like Apple and being hypocrites.