AMD Geekbenchs for engineering examples???

[ivan134]

10 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

My point was that if they reserve Bristol Ridge for APU (quite possible) and only use Zen for CPU, then I will not be buying a laptop with one of their APU. I can not support retarded decisions.

You cannot support retarded decisions you made up in your head?

[Dabombinable]

3 minutes ago, shdowhunt60 said:

Retarded because they're not giving you what you want immediately and right now? That's called entitlement. Which I HATE using that word, because it's so overused, but that's that this is by definition.

 

AMD cannot produce Zen based APU's. For one, the Zen core is STILL not ready despite them putting every other CPU project on hold to get Zen out the door as fast as possible (with evidence to suggest that this has even come to the detriment of Steamroller and Excavator's developement, taking resources from THOSE projects leaving them rather incomplete). And secondly, the process that Zen requires for production JUST started ramping up a couple months ago, and AMD is pooling all its resources now for Polaris.

 

The point is, Excavator is all that AMD has. They're not retarded for trying to sell it. That's what sane businesses do when they want to stay afloat and make it to the next product. That doesn't make them any more retarded as it makes you any less of a entitled manchild.

Retarded because from the start their CMT architectures were behind. I was (and am) hoping for a Zen APU as it will offer far better price/performance to what is available now. And I am a consumer. I have every right to not be happy with AMD if they release a flawed product that is far behind what the

competition has.

1 minute ago, ivan134 said:

You cannot support retarded decisions you made up in your head?

Look at the fact that the CMT architecture is only good in a few niche circumstances, and that to this day, despite the revisions, AMD still has it far behind in too many areas when compared to their classic CPU designs and their competitors at the time.

[ivan134]

1 minute ago, Dabombinable said:

Retarded because from the start their CMT architectures were behind. I was (and am) hoping for a Zen APU as it will offer far better price/performance to what is available now. And I am a consumer. I have every right to not be happy with AMD if they release a flawed product that is far behind what the competition has.

Seriously, what the fuck are you talking about? Who said they're not making an Zen APU?

[ivan134]

4 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

Retarded because from the start their CMT architectures were behind. I was (and am) hoping for a Zen APU as it will offer far better price/performance to what is available now. And I am a consumer. I have every right to not be happy with AMD if they release a flawed product that is far behind what the

competition has.

Look at the fact that the CMT architecture is only good in a few niche circumstances, and that to this day, despite the revisions, AMD still has it far behind in too many areas when compared to their classic CPU designs and their competitors at the time.

THIS IS NOT ZEN!!!!

[shdowhunt60]

Just now, Dabombinable said:

Retarded because from the start their CMT architectures were behind. I was (and am) hoping for a Zen APU as it will offer far better price/performance to what is available now. And I am a consumer. I have every right to not be happy with AMD if they release a flawed product that is far behind what the competition has.

So, what, AMD is just supposed to sit there and keep losing money? Their hands are tied. Stop being angry for a company that's doing its best to survive and releasing whatever it is that they can. Once again, they literally pulled all their resources to other major CPU projects, including Steamroller and Excavator, to get Zen out as fast as possible. They're doing all they can.

[Dabombinable]

3 minutes ago, ivan134 said:

Seriously, what the fuck are you talking about? Who said they're not making an Zen APU?

Read through my comments, I'm counting on them to make Zen APU for my next laptop (I can stretch the Phenom II N970+MR HD5650 to last a few more years, but the Ati PowerXpress config in it means I can't go past Windows 7).

1 hour ago, Dabombinable said:

Still, they are clinging to CMT, and if they only use it their AM4 APU.....and don't make Zen APU....

17 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

My point was that if they reserve Bristol Ridge for APU (quite possible) and only use Zen for CPU, then I will not be buying a laptop with one of their APU. I can not support retarded decisions.

[shdowhunt60]

And how are they going to do that, when Zen is not even ready?

[Dabombinable]

Just now, shdowhunt60 said:

And how are they going to do that, when Zen is not even ready?

As I said, I can stretch my current laptop to last for a few more years (or until about 2020, when Windows 7 is no longer supported), so in that time (about 4 years, so loads for AMD to get off their asses) if there are no Zen APU and only APU based on their flawed CMT architecture, then I won['t get one of their APU based laptops.

[ivan134]

2 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

As I said, I can stretch my current laptop to last for a few more years (or until about 2020, when Windows 7 is no longer supported), so in that time (about 4 years, so loads for AMD to get off their asses) if there are no Zen APU and only APU based on their flawed CMT architecture, then I won['t get one of their APU based laptops.

Wow, you really don't get it. This is literally aiming for the broad side of the barn and hitting the moon instead. Holy shit.

[shdowhunt60]

1 minute ago, Dabombinable said:

As I said, I can stretch my current laptop to last for a few more years (or until about 2020, when Windows 7 is no longer supported), so in that time (about 4 years, so loads for AMD to get off their asses) if there are no Zen APU and only APU based on their flawed CMT architecture, then I won['t get one of their APU based laptops.

Nobody said you had to buy one of the CMT laptops. Nobody. None. That was not implied or said anywhere. Nobody is forcing you to buy any of them.

 

AMD is releasing Bristol Ridge, because that's all they have. Intel was stuck with Netburst for 6 years, did you forget that? That was 6 years of Intel getting curbstomped by AMD, even harder than the reverse was happening now, and then they released the Conroe which finally turned the tide. That's because designing a CPU architecture is a multi-year effort, especially for finfets.

[Dabombinable]

4 minutes ago, ivan134 said:

Wow, you really don't get it. This is literally aiming for the broad side of the barn and hitting the moon instead. Holy shit.

Don't get what?

6 minutes ago, shdowhunt60 said:

Nobody said you had to buy one of the CMT laptops. Nobody. None. That was not implied or said anywhere. Nobody is forcing you to buy any of them.

 

AMD is releasing Bristol Ridge, because that's all they have. Intel was stuck with Netburst for 6 years, did you forget that? That was 6 years of Intel getting curbstomped by AMD, even harder than the reverse was happening now, and then they released the Conroe which finally turned the tide. That's because designing a CPU architecture is a multi-year effort, especially for finfets.

Intel also kept up with their P6 based architectures while working on Netburst due to its efficiency. So you could get a Pentium M that was as fast as a Pentium 4 while being clocked 1GHz lower.

[shdowhunt60]

Which is because Intel had multiple concurrent CPU architecture roadmaps at the time. AMD does not have that luxury.

[shdowhunt60]

By the way, turns out that Geekbench is bugged.

 

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2406297&page=117

 

It reports half the frequency of Excavator based APU's. So this sample is actually running at 4ghz.

[Dabombinable]

6 minutes ago, shdowhunt60 said:

Which is because Intel had multiple concurrent CPU architecture roadmaps at the time. AMD does not have that luxury.

They did when they launched Bulldozer.

[shdowhunt60]

Just now, Dabombinable said:

They did when they launched Bulldozer.

Oh. Right. They had Cat cores. Clearly intended for high performance.

[Dabombinable]

Just now, shdowhunt60 said:

Oh. Right. They had Cat cores. Clearly intended for high performance.

Die shrunk Phenom II.

[OuchMyFaceyHole]

1 minute ago, Dabombinable said:

Die shrunk Phenom II.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

[shdowhunt60]

Just now, Dabombinable said:

Die shrunk Phenom II.

Which wouldn't have been any better. Phenom was already behind the Core 2 family.

[Dabombinable]

2 minutes ago, shdowhunt60 said:

Which wouldn't have been any better. Phenom was already behind the Core 2 family.

And Bulldozer was even further behind. The die shrink would have enabled AMD to put 8 classic processing cores in the 1 die. That combined with the newer instruction sets that were used in Bulldozer (and more L2 cache, or L3 cache) would have meant AMD had a CPU that was actually more competitive.

[shdowhunt60]

Just now, Dabombinable said:

And Bulldozer was even further behind. The die shrink would have enabled AMD to put 8 classic processing cores in the 1 die. That combined with the newer instruction sets that were used in Bulldozer (and more L2 cache, or L3 cache) would have meant AMD had a CPU that was actually more competitive.

Actually, no. No it wasn't. Once the scheduling issues in Windows 7 were fixed and Piledriver was released, Bulldozer achieved parity with Thuban. Steamroller and Excavator, despite their problems, achieve even better performance.

[DocSwag]

3 hours ago, Dabombinable said:

Still, they are clinging to CMT, and if they only use it their AM4 APU.....and don't make Zen APU....

Of course they are making a Zen APU. It's ridiculous to think otherwise. AMD knows it's strong point that Intel cannot defeat is graphics. With Broadwell-C Intel took the iGPU crown, but that took a lot of effort. They had to have a 14nm FinFET vs. 28nm advantage, plus using 128MB of integrated DRAM. Even then, AMD's 15 watt mobile chip could still give Intel's 65 watt DESKTOP chip a good run. AMD knows it's in a good position here. Rumor has it the APUs will be coming in Q2 of 2017. Zen CPUs are gonna be pretty killer if good, but the deadly blow (if done right) will be Zen+Polaris or Vega+HBM2. A Zen APU with a pretty large Vega or Polaris graphics on board with even just one HBM2 stack would be like desktop r7 graphics with 128 GB/S 4GB of memory.... that would beat the crap out of anything Intel has. Two stacks-256 GB/S.

 

AMD knows a good, solid Zen APU would be killer, so it would be completely stupid if they decided not to make one. Bristol Ridge is only a prelude. It doesn't affect Zen at all. I'm really excited for Zen CPUs and APUs.

 

55 minutes ago, shdowhunt60 said:

Actually, no. No it wasn't. Once the scheduling issues in Windows 7 were fixed and Piledriver was released, Bulldozer achieved parity with Thuban. Steamroller and Excavator, despite their problems, achieve even better performance.

And even today Excavator doesn't have as good IPC as Sandy Bridge, a 5 year old processor. Yeah, Excavator sure sounds really powerful. *sarcasm*

It's based on a better node and AMD has had more time to innovate yet it's still worse.... Man Excavator sure sounds great!

[shdowhunt60]

Sandy Bridge was the last significant architectural jump that Intel has made. While Skylake and Haswell make some significant jumps in certain niche cases, it's not like they completely blow away Sandy Bridge either. And Excavator is closer to Sandy Bridge than you think.

 

https://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/compare/6032158?baseline=6040070

 

Take it with a grain of salt. This is Geekbench we're talking about. But Excavator's performance leaves me optimistic for Zen. 

[spartaman64]

4 hours ago, Dabombinable said:

So AMD is still clinging to their poor CMT design? *sigh*

but look at the performance its really good

[DXMember]

7 hours ago, SamStrecker said:

Look at the iphone vs the tegra note. It is an octal core yet scores way less in benchmarks then the dual core iphone. Cores don't always scale perfectly and knowing AMD there might be trickery 

I mean have you seen Intel 65 core android device?

those things have like one or two performance cores and a bunch of low power cores for background tasks and power saving, of course it doesn't scale, because all the cores are not made equal

[Dabombinable]

3 hours ago, ONOTech said:

You seem to always leave an Anti-AMD trail whenever you post. You strongly dislike them for whatever reason, and you can, but don't let that cloud your judgement.

 

AMD made a mistake, yes, but they're trying their best to fix it. Their AM4 platform will support Bristol Ridge, which is based on Excavator, the final line of Bulldozer. Yes, they are using their current architecture, but what do you want them to do? Disregard the CPU market for the next 6-7 months while people sulk around waiting for Zen? That makes no sense.

 

You say this as if they're not currently prepping Zen, its future iterations, and its APU counterparts. Zen APUs are scheduled for 2017 and Zen itself is scheduled for later this year. In the meantime, AMD must work with that they have, even if it is their "poor CMT design". You should know better than to comment something as resentful as this - you know why they're installing Bristol Ridge. And if you don't, I think it's time you research it a bit, because right now you're coming off as a bit ignorant and fanboy-ish.

 

It's a common misconception that CPU architectures can be made in a year. They can't - they take several at least, especially in AMD's case where they started completely from scratch. Their new processor line isn't ready yet, so it would be dumb for them to not upgrade what they already have, which is Bulldozer. 

Look, I did mention that I'm looking forward to Zen APU (if they happen) because they'll offer far better price/performance than Intel's equivalent, and because I can't go past Windows 7 with my laptop (Phenom II N970+MR HD5650, its PowerXpress config doesn't work in newer versions of Windows correctly). However if Zen APU don't come out, if, and the only option is a Bristolridge, aka CMT, APU, then I won't be getting a laptop with one.