Microwaves and Routers

[SuperSaiyanJeter]

Hello everyone!

 

I just recently discovered that use of the microwave inside the kitchen interferes GREATLY with my Cisco router located in the living room. While this isn't an issue as we don't have many things that connect to the router wirelessly, use of the microwave even effects the quality of connections via hard-wiring in...almost to the point where if service were to be disconnected, everyone in my house wouldn't notice because things slow down that much.

 

I'm thinking maybe it has something to do with the frequency at which the router is broadcasting. Assuming that is it, wouldn't changing the channel solve the problem, or am I up the river at this point and need to start looking at new networking solutions?

[RedWulf]

You sir are the unlucky case of EMI at its worst. 

Change fom 2.5ghz to 5 or just as much as you can. The channel shouldn't change much. 

[manikyath]

microwaves are the reason wifi was put on 2.4GHz in the first place.

 

because of microwaves and their MASSIVE bunch of interference, the 2.4GHz band was actually made free to use for anything and everything because otherise you'd get FCC fines for heating up a freezer meal

 

slight downside offcourse is that using a microwave tanks everything on 2.4GHz like wifi

 

5GHz is a solution if all your devices support it.. beyond that.. buy a steam oven and stop cooking like a student

[SuperSaiyanJeter]

But....but...I like reliving my college days of reheating Ramen in the microwave!

 

But in all seriousness, thanks for the idea guys! Will get on it asap!

[manikyath]

in all seriousness, that microwave does sound like a source of cancer, i'd get that stuff checked out because they arent supposed to be nearly that bad.

[RedWulf]

4 minutes ago, manikyath said:

in all seriousness, that microwave does sound like a source of cancer, i'd get that stuff checked out because they arent supposed to be nearly that bad.

He has a point, I mean my old apartment has 3 families(3 microwaves) and no one had wifi trouble...you seem to be using a soviet satellite dish to nuke food. 

[SuperSaiyanJeter]

Thankfully, I do have a spare microwave from a old apartment me and my wife used to live in years ago, so I'll switch those out and see if the results are the same.

[manikyath]

1 minute ago, RedWulf said:

He has a point, I mean my old apartment has 3 families(3 microwaves) and no one had wifi trouble...you seem to be using a soviet satellite dish to nuke food. 

i can hold my phone to the microwave when its cooking and i'll still have connection, that thing sounds like somehow its farraday cage failed (is that even a thing?)

 

which.. if thats a thing, every time you make ramen you're blasting yourself with a fresh load of cancer.

 

and however much people say you shouldnt make fun of that dreadful disease, i'm actually not kidding here, theres a reason microwaves have that mesh in the window.

[RedWulf]

1 minute ago, manikyath said:

i can hold my phone to the microwave when its cooking and i'll still have connection, that thing sounds like somehow its farraday cage failed (is that even a thing?)

 

which.. if thats a thing, every time you make ramen you're blasting yourself with a fresh load of cancer.

 

and however much people say you shouldnt make fun of that dreadful disease, i'm actually not kidding here, theres a reason microwaves have that mesh in the window.

I dont think so, but the same concept applies yes. I don't think its going to set off the gigarcounter but I would be willing to bet the some 3 letter goverment agency would ban it. 

[RedWulf]

EPA, FDA, FCC, etc 

[beavo451]

2 hours ago, SuperSaiyanJeter said:

Thankfully, I do have a spare microwave from a old apartment me and my wife used to live in years ago, so I'll switch those out and see if the results are the same.

Did you say using the microwave causes problems with wired connections as well? You need to get rid of the microwave ASAP if it really is doing that.

[Donut417]

I think some form of Shielding has failed. I would consider a new microwave. Actually buy a toaster oven, they cook food better. Because I have never noticed any noticable interference with our microwave. Also, check the channel on your router. I remember looking on the back of a commercial grade microwave and it had the exact channel frequency it was broadcasting. 

[SuperSaiyanJeter]

Me and my wife have decided to have our own private connection wired directly to our room from our ISP. Thankfully, between our room/office & the kitchen where that god-forsaken microwave is, there is about four feet of concrete flooring covering a few hundred square feet if not more. But...just in case, we went out and purchased a Asus RT-N53 N600 Dual Band router which we'll wire everything to.

 

Assuming all of that works, and we hope it does, next step will be purchasing a switch so none of our devices have to connect wirelessly aside from phones and tablets.

[Scheer]

19 hours ago, SuperSaiyanJeter said:

Assuming all of that works, and we hope it does, next step will be purchasing a switch so none of our devices have to connect wirelessly aside from phones and tablets.

 

Gotcha covered: https://www.adafruit.com/products/2992?gclid=Cj0KEQjwosK4BRCYhsngx4_SybcBEiQAowaCJeA7rJeDnzRzgHmPC528aVJcThl8fgSl0cnd3wZA4OkaAtSd8P8HAQ

 

 

But seriously, I'd look into replacing your microwave...

[InVis]

On 3/30/2016 at 3:06 AM, manikyath said:

in all seriousness, that microwave does sound like a source of cancer, i'd get that stuff checked out because they arent supposed to be nearly that bad.

There is no scientific proof that EMR causes cancer.

There are some rules and guidelines defined by every country to limit the EMR coming out of such devices, but that has more to do with not fucking with other stuff and not cooking outside the microwave than it has to do with cancer  

 

But I agree - It should be within its legal rating, and if it is not, it is broken and has to be returned to the manufacturer. 

[InVis]

oh and by they way.. 

 

Studies in Denmark have shown that you cannot rely on the price of the product to ensure low EMI - the cheap microwaves can emit less EMR than the expensive ones and vice versa.

There is no correlation between price and EMI - you just need to check reviews or reports from i guess FCC in US maybe?

[manikyath]

23 minutes ago, InVis said:

There is no scientific proof that EMR causes cancer.

There are some rules and guidelines defined by every country to limit the EMR coming out of such devices, but that has more to do with not fucking with other stuff and not cooking outside the microwave than it has to do with cancer  

 

But I agree - It should be within its legal rating, and if it is not, it is broken and has to be returned to the manufacturer. 

look at it like this: you put your food inside, it comes out cooked after 5 minutes.

 

that cant be healthy when that hits your body right?

[InVis]

21 minutes ago, manikyath said:

look at it like this: you put your food inside, it comes out cooked after 5 minutes.

 

that cant be healthy when that hits your body right?

Meh.. its more or less the same as induction and that is totally healthy  

A microwave is just focusing a lot of energy (watt) into a small mass (the food you cook) in a very short timespan.

 

It would be like cooking a piece of meat with steam, the energy output of steam is just higher than surface heating because of higher temperatures and a more concentrated wattage - or like cooking stuff in a vacuum or under high pressure. 

[Donut417]

1 hour ago, manikyath said:

look at it like this: you put your food inside, it comes out cooked after 5 minutes.

 

that cant be healthy when that hits your body right?

The Unhealthy part is not that it was microwaved. Its the fact that most microwaveable foods are packed with shit tones of Sodium and preservatives. If you eat too much Sodium it will give you high blood pressure. Trust me I know from personal experience. I have to take a fucking pill every day, probably from the rest of my life. Thats why I dont eat prepackaged foods or much fast food any more. Generally I dont microwave food because it tastes like crap. Thats why is a great idea to invest in a Toaster Oven. Also consider those preservatives. Are they good for your body? 

[Chuckie Finster]

Wifi energy is about 0.1 watts while my microwave operates at 1500 watts. Sometimes my Ubiquiti access point complains about inference on the 2.4GHz band when I check the logs. I suspected the microwave was the culprit, since our closet neighbor is about 40 feet away. 

[InVis]

13 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

Wifi energy is about 0.1 watts while my microwave operates at 1500 watts. Sometimes my Ubiquiti access point complains about inference on the 2.4GHz band when I check the logs. I suspected the microwave was the culprit, since our closet neighbor is about 40 feet away. 

1500 watt power rating of a microwave oven is is not the same as 1500watt wifi transmit power nor is it equal to the microwave output.

The wattage of a microwave is how much power draw it is expected to do from the wall - you have to look at the energy output of the magnetron

You can look up the Friis Transmission Equation to calculate the transmit power in watts for your router - it not much (luckily as it is most often omni directional RF waves which could disturb smaller creatures like mice, bugs and birds)

 

But again - the power inside a microwave oven is very focused and it should be properly EMI shielded.

The energy falloff is great so there is little to no human danger to stand within a meter of a microwave oven (it is of course not recommeded to put your head or any limbs near it for a prolonged time period while it is on due to the obvious risks of being cooked alive if enough energy escapes it and you stand near it long enough for it to actually transfer its energy to you)

 

I am not saying that a microwave cannot fuck with your wifi, because it certainly can, I am just saying that it is not so dangerous as people think  

[AshleyAshes]

On ‎3‎/‎30‎/‎2016 at 9:16 PM, manikyath said:

that thing sounds like somehow its farraday cage failed (is that even a thing?)

It really isn't.  First the entire metal box -is- the faraday cage, the only part that is actually a 'cage' is the mesh over the wonders which is smaller than microwave wave lengths.  You'd need to cut parts of out microwave to damage the faraday cage.  Also, a damaged faraday cage wouldn't so much cause wifi disruption as much as it would cause burns on the faces of those watching their Pizza Pops heat up.

[Chuckie Finster]

6 minutes ago, InVis said:

1500 watt power rating of a microwave oven is is not the same as 1500watt wifi transmit power nor is it equal to the microwave output.

The wattage of a microwave is how much power draw it is expected to do from the wall - you have to look at the energy output of the magnetron

You can look up the Friis Transmission Equation to calculate the transmit power in watts for your router - it not much (luckily as it is most often omni directional RF waves which could disturb smaller creatures like mice, bugs and birds)

 

But again - the power inside a microwave oven is very focused and it should be properly EMI shielded.

The energy falloff is great so there is little to no human danger to stand within a meter of a microwave oven (it is of course not recommeded to put your head or any limbs near it for a prolonged time period while it is on due to the obvious risks of being cooked alive if enough energy escapes it and you stand near it long enough for it to actually transfer its energy to you)

 

I am not saying that a microwave cannot fuck with your wifi, because it certainly can, I am just saying that it is not so dangerous as people think  

 

 

Thanks for clarifying. I knew that the microwave was shielded, otherwise going near it wouldn't be safe. I wonder what fraction of the 1.5kW actually gets converted into RF energy, because 1.5kW is about as powerful as a lawn mower (1.5kW ~ 2.01 hp)! 

 

 

 

 

[InVis]

7 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

 

 

Thanks for clarifying. I knew that the microwave was shielded, otherwise going near it wouldn't be safe. I wonder what fraction of the 1.5kW actually gets converted into RF energy, because 1.5kW is about as powerful as a lawn mower (1.5kW ~ 2.01 hp)! 

 

 

 

 

I am guessing that it would be the same amount as the magnetron can output + amplification  

 

But after shielding, the leakage is measured in mW 5cm away from the oven, so it cant be much  

Each county has different acceptable leakage ratings for microwave ovens and the manufactures has to adhere to them.

Most manufactures would prefer to have as low leakage as possible to be able to sell their product in the most strict markets (like Europe, where we follow in ICNIRP's guidelines)