LTT Enterprise and Networking content

[.:MARK:.]

5 minutes ago, Jon Trollston said:

What's so bad about what they do? Just curious about what you have to say since my dad also thought they were crap and I disagreed so I'm simply curious as to what you think too. 

Some of the videos are based on the flaky knowledge of the presenter. Some say Linus doesn't intend to do guides, but I'm sure Linus also does not intend to spread misinformation.

So here is a short but sweet summary for those that don't seem to read the OP.

No more click-bait titles

Actually know what you are teaching!

And my advice is to make EVEN BETTER server and networking videos that are more accessible to the viewers and with prior research done.

 

Some of the arguments I simply don't understand are that Linus intends to do things the bad or wrong way., Linus DOES know what he's talking about when it comes to consumer PC gear, so what makes it different for things like networking or home servers? Why is it that I can trust Linus for GPU advice, but I would never listen to him when I set up my LAN or buy any networking gear or server hardware?

[Guest]

So much text, I might as well read a f****** book while I'm at it D:

[Networking Wolf]

1 hour ago, .:MARK:. said:

So I have noticed that for several months, there have been many LTT videos that are related to enterprise grade networking and servers. And after watching most of them and seeing the community response, I would like to ask Linus to stop making videos like these for the time being.

 

As I'm sure most are aware the channel has a wide variety of content, and networking and server content is welcome, but unfortunately it is mostly poorly executed.

 

I have a few issues to point out first, before I suggest possible ways of improving the content.

 

Stop the click-bait video titles. As shown by some of the responses from viewers on the forum (which I might add, is a small percentage of viewers in total), the titles are misleading and sometimes just silly.

Stop the condescending attitude on follow-up videos where you tell people who criticize you, that they are wrong. It is likely that if a video is badly received, you had something to do with it, not your viewers.
To those who do possess the knowledge of the subject, you sound like a prick (sorry). And you are in a way, suppressing the viewers opinions.

Stop doing videos on stuff you really don't know. This is less of a problem to me, because it's more the presentation format that's wrong here. It's not bad to not know something, but don't present in an instructional format.
A way around this is to document experiences with a device, or system. A video on how YOU go about things, not how TO go about things.

 

My ideas

 

You seem interested in enterprise gear, but before you inadvertently mislead people into buying stuff and driving up return rates because people don't know how to use it, perhaps build a solid grounding on which to build on.

 

I would suggest a new series of videos which revolve around a rack. An initial video where you look for a cheap used rack and with (proper) prior research, explain the jargon and what to look for.
Then (with proper prior research) some affordable, maybe even used UPSs, where you again explain the jargon and what to look for. Show the viewer how to test the batteries to see if they work OK. Talk about PDUs too.

When you eventually get to servers, talk about virtualisation, and all of the open-source software you can deploy.

 

You also have a forum of people to consult, and I can personally say that some of the moderators on here are very skilled with servers and networking, and I'm sure they would help you if you asked them.

 

And honestly you get what I'm saying from here.

 

TL;DR Do proper prior research and learn before you instruct. No more 25km WiFi! and 10Gbit local network! Which are either factually wrong or give the wrong idea of a proper implementation.

Consumer grade server/netoworking gear is crap. It is actually cheap in many times for you to buy enterprise gear rather than consumer

[Jon Trollston]

1 minute ago, .:MARK:. said:

Some of the videos are based on the flaky knowledge of the presenter. Some say Linus doesn't intend to do guides, but I'm sure Linus also does not intend to spread misinformation.

So here is a short but sweet summary for those that don't seem to read the OP.

No more click-bait titles

Actually know what you are teaching!

And my advice is to make EVEN BETTER server and networking videos that are more accessible to the viewers and with prior research done.

 

Some of the arguments I simply don't understand are that Linus intends to do things the bad or wrong way., Linus DOES know what he's talking about when it comes to consumer PC gear, so what makes it different for things like networking or home servers? Why is it that I can trust Linus for GPU advice, but I would never listen to him when I set up my LAN or buy any networking gear or server hardware?

He's heavily sponsored and I think he's trying to use really high end enterprise gear for generally consumer purposes. I really enjoy his videos but since I understand most of the stuff he teaches (or tries to teach according you you), I can ignore that and just watch the video purely for enjoyment and to see what others do with stuff like this. Interesting to hear other's views on this though and I guess I can see where you're coming from  

[cynexit]

I have to agree with OP on the core thing he's saying, not everything is well researched and totally thought out, especially when it comes to the low level stuff, so +1 on this aspect of things.

 

But I wholeheartedly disagree with the conclusion. LTT videos are an "entertainment product" and whoever takes them for anything else has only himself to blame. Would you close your eyes and cross a street with heavy traffic just because some guy on youtube did it? Probably not, so why would you invest thousands of dollars to get your home network 10Gbits ready just because you've seen a video about it?

This is somewhat a combination of "natural selection" and "you have to learn it at some point in your life". These videos are entertaining and nothing else. I actually really like to shake my head every time they spend hours to debug a failing raid instead of simply checking the kernel log for hardware messages, it really doesn't bother me that they aren't experts and know how to do it properly, it's entertainment. (The TopGear comparison was actually really good)

 

If you take everything you see on this channel serious and try to re-implement it without doing research there is just one person to blame and that is yourself.

[minibois]

The people who are not into this sort of enterprise stuff, don't like the content. The people who are call Linus a n00b and don't enjoy the content (at least that is how it seems with the community response)

 

I dunno, I am really not in either of those two camps and can't say I DONT enjoy it.. But meh.

Still like the more point and shoot type of content this is

[Denned]

In the latest WAN show he acknowledged that he is not an expert on networking, and that he had started taking a basic networking course. In the video where he used the /16, he said that he had asked "Johnny the networking guy" (or whatever it was) to verify that what he did was correct. So in that case it's obviously not easy to make good content, thinking you are using the correct methods. So they are aware of the problem it seems.

 

I don't agree with the attitude thing, nor the click bait titles. However I do agree that sometimes the videos could be interpreted as actual viable options. Like the SLI and CF rig, using an angle grinder to remove the extra DVI port etc. A warning wouldn't hurt on those videos with the "overkill project" type video.. Like if you're wondering if a PFsense router is something for you.. It's not. If you actually have a use for it, you're going to come across the video when researching how to do it. Not the other way around.

 

 

 

[LogicalDrm]

13 minutes ago, Jon Trollston said:

Here this part of it. I'm assuming that you're reffering to their choice of components and set up style for their server grade stuff?

 

Not so much about components. Not anymore. Before they moved, it was also about them picking lower grade components for heavy industrial use.

 

Bigger issue is that they use buy stuff and have vague idea on how to install/use it. Starting from basics.

• Linus ordering wrong power adapter for UPS (moving vlogs). And then rather than ordering single cable from wall to UPS, he gets adapter to fit first adapter to UPS.
• Continuing with whole rendering server+vault etc. backup mess. I've been defending them against most obvious ragers, but I cry too.
• I won't even touch Whole Room Watercooling mess. Or issues with Mineral Oil PC.
• Linus building own router/modem/whatever and breaking several mobos, modding etc. because he was impatient.

Just some examples.

[Jon Trollston]

2 minutes ago, LoGiCalDrm said:

Not so much about components. Not anymore. Before they moved, it was also about them picking lower grade components for heavy industrial use.

 

Bigger issue is that they use buy stuff and have vague idea on how to install/use it. Starting from basics.

• Linus ordering wrong power adapter for UPS (moving vlogs). And then rather than ordering single cable from wall to UPS, he gets adapter to fit first adapter to UPS.
• Continuing with whole rendering server+vault etc. backup mess. I've been defending them against most obvious ragers, but I cry too.
• I won't even touch Whole Room Watercooling mess. Or issues with Mineral Oil PC.
• Linus building own router/modem/whatever and breaking several mobos, modding etc. because he was impatient.

Just some examples.

Fair enough. Thanks alot  

[Networking Wolf]

4 minutes ago, LoGiCalDrm said:

Not so much about components. Not anymore. Before they moved, it was also about them picking lower grade components for heavy industrial use.

 

Bigger issue is that they use buy stuff and have vague idea on how to install/use it. Starting from basics.

• Linus ordering wrong power adapter for UPS (moving vlogs). And then rather than ordering single cable from wall to UPS, he gets adapter to fit first adapter to UPS.
• Continuing with whole rendering server+vault etc. backup mess. I've been defending them against most obvious ragers, but I cry too.
• I won't even touch Whole Room Watercooling mess. Or issues with Mineral Oil PC.
• Linus building own router/modem/whatever and breaking several mobos, modding etc. because he was impatient.

Just some examples.

I get where you are coming from and this statement is not to defend them but do you actually think these guys know half of what they are doing?

[.:MARK:.]

36 minutes ago, LoGiCalDrm said:

Not so much about components. Not anymore. Before they moved, it was also about them picking lower grade components for heavy industrial use.

 

Bigger issue is that they use buy stuff and have vague idea on how to install/use it. Starting from basics.

• Linus ordering wrong power adapter for UPS (moving vlogs). And then rather than ordering single cable from wall to UPS, he gets adapter to fit first adapter to UPS.
• Continuing with whole rendering server+vault etc. backup mess. I've been defending them against most obvious ragers, but I cry too.
• I won't even touch Whole Room Watercooling mess. Or issues with Mineral Oil PC.
• Linus building own router/modem/whatever and breaking several mobos, modding etc. because he was impatient.

Just some examples.

I actually don't have an issue with those things, that doesn't bother me because it is comedic, and it's not instructional.

But I have specific complaints like the Ubiquiti AirMax P2P, the title is "Long Distance Wi-Fi (Up to 25 KILOMETER range!?) " But to most that implies the standard WiFi implementation, so people are mislead to believe they can hook one up and their phone will have WiFi signal 25 kilometers away...

 

Or the 10Gbit local network, which is actually just connecting 2 computers directly together, not a 10Gbit LAN as it would seem by title. And then the idea that he has to use a different subnet on each NIC on either end of the SFP+ cable, and uses public /16s to do it. And yes he did say that he knows no networking in the WAN show, but that video is almost a guide in presentation and apparently no prior research was done apart from asking some guy. Would Linus also make videos about a new GPU based on what some guy said and not do his own research? No I think not.

[LAwLz]

1 hour ago, LoGiCalDrm said:

Its not like he's Qain or Wendell from Tek Syndicate (who would are real experts and would be perfect for this type of videos).

Haven't watched Qain in a long time, but he seemed about as ignorant as Linus when it comes to networking.

Qain might sound very confident when he speaks, but he is just making shit up as he goes along.

 

A few examples:

https://youtu.be/xgYOoOSqn5o?t=16m13s

 

Spoiler

Quote

The way things are switched and routed right now are base on this IPv4 technology

Switching and IP are two different things. Switching does not use IP addresses. They use MAC addresses. The way things are switched won't change just because we move to IPv6.

 

 

Quote

We can't route IPv6 the same way we route IPv4.

Yes we can.
Here is the routing table on my test router. This is IPv4 (with things cleaned up so that it's easier to see):

R1#show ip route
Gateway of last resort is 10.10.1.254 to network 0.0.0.0

D    2.0.0.0/8 [90/2297856] via 10.10.1.254, 00:20:52, Serial0/0/0
     3.0.0.0/24 is subnetted, 1 subnets
D       3.3.3.0 [90/2809856] via 10.10.1.254, 00:20:11, Serial0/0/0
     10.0.0.0/30 is subnetted, 2 subnets
D       10.10.1.248 [90/2681856] via 10.10.1.254, 00:20:13, Serial0/0/0
D       192.168.1.0/24 is a summary, 00:20:54, Null0
D       192.168.2.0/24 is a summary, 00:20:55, Null0
D*EX 0.0.0.0/0 [170/2297856] via 10.10.1.254, 00:20:53, Serial0/0/0

Here is the IPv6 test config:

R2#show ipv6 route eigrp
IPv6 Routing Table - Default - 9 entries
Codes: C - Connected, L - Local, S - Static, U - Per-user Static route
       B - BGP, HA - Home Agent, MR - Mobile Router, R - RIP
       I1 - ISIS L1, I2 - ISIS L2, IA - ISIS interarea, IS - ISIS summary
       D - EIGRP, EX - EIGRP external
       O - OSPF Intra, OI - OSPF Inter, OE1 - OSPF ext 1, OE2 - OSPF ext 2
       ON1 - OSPF NSSA ext 1, ON2 - OSPF NSSA ext 2
D   1010:1010:1010::/48 [90/2297856]
     via FE80::226:BFF:FE3E:5270, Serial0/0/0
D   2020:2020:2020::/48 [90/2297856]
     via FE80::226:BFF:FE3E:5270, Serial0/0/0
D   3030:3030:3030::/48 [90/2297856]
     via FE80::226:BFF:FE3E:5378, Serial0/0/1
D   4040:4040:4040::/48 [90/2297856]
     via FE80::226:BFF:FE3E:5378, Serial0/0/1

Would you look at that, the routing is done the same way as before.

 

Quote

It's going to be a high bandwidth, software switched or software routed (interrupted). It's going to turn into a software switching and software routing.

Yeah right... We are totally going to go back to software based switching and routing. LOL
CEF already supports IPv6, and I am fairly sure the hardware based switching and routing technologies from other companies are also ready for IPv6. Software based switching and routing are slow as balls compared to doing it in ASICs.
Source for CEF supporting IPv6 here.

 

 

Quote

You're not going to have a centralized router.

We don't even have that today. That would be insane.

 

Quote

It's going to be, everybody is going to know everything or there is going to be a centralized, like lookup.

This right here should be more than enough evidence to classify Qain as a fucking moron. Yeah, let's fill the routing table of every single router with billions of entries. Even on IPv4 we use things such as summarization to keep the routing tables as short as possible. Now this moron thinks that every router should know every single IP in the entire world. Does this guy even know what routing protocols are?

 

Quote

Right now, everything is very "I know everything and I am going to have to ask someone else if I don't know everything". That's how the switching and networking works.

No it doesn't work like that. In fact, a router won't ask for a route to a destination. If it gets a packet and the destination is not in its routing table, it will drop the packet by default. It won't ask another router for a way. Switching kind of works by asking, but switching doesn't have anything to do with IPv6.
Also, isn't the "I know everything" exactly what you said IPv6 would do? This guy doesn't know how IPv4 or IPv6 works, and yet he pretends like he does.

 

Or his classic "the only reason to use 5GHz WiFi is because it penetrates walls better than 2.4GHz" bullshit:

 

 

It's the exact opposite by the way. 5GHz is worse at penetrating walls, but has other benefits such as wider channels and less interference, which allows for higher speeds.

I would probably be able to find more bullshit said by Qain but I can't stand watching him.

[.:MARK:.]

2 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Haven't watched Qain in a long time, but he seemed about as ignorant as Linus when it comes to networking.

Qain might sound very confident when he speaks, but he is just making shit up as he goes along.

 

A few examples:

https://youtu.be/xgYOoOSqn5o?t=16m13s

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Switching and IP are two different things. Switching does not use IP addresses. They use MAC addresses. The way things are switched won't change just because we move to IPv6.

 

 

Yes we can.
Here is the routing table on my test router. This is IPv4 (with things cleaned up so that it's easier to see):

R1#show ip route
Gateway of last resort is 10.10.1.254 to network 0.0.0.0

D    2.0.0.0/8 [90/2297856] via 10.10.1.254, 00:20:52, Serial0/0/0
     3.0.0.0/24 is subnetted, 1 subnets
D       3.3.3.0 [90/2809856] via 10.10.1.254, 00:20:11, Serial0/0/0
     10.0.0.0/30 is subnetted, 2 subnets
D       10.10.1.248 [90/2681856] via 10.10.1.254, 00:20:13, Serial0/0/0
D       192.168.1.0/24 is a summary, 00:20:54, Null0
D       192.168.2.0/24 is a summary, 00:20:55, Null0
D*EX 0.0.0.0/0 [170/2297856] via 10.10.1.254, 00:20:53, Serial0/0/0

Here is the IPv6 test config:

R2#show ipv6 route eigrp
IPv6 Routing Table - Default - 9 entries
Codes: C - Connected, L - Local, S - Static, U - Per-user Static route
       B - BGP, HA - Home Agent, MR - Mobile Router, R - RIP
       I1 - ISIS L1, I2 - ISIS L2, IA - ISIS interarea, IS - ISIS summary
       D - EIGRP, EX - EIGRP external
       O - OSPF Intra, OI - OSPF Inter, OE1 - OSPF ext 1, OE2 - OSPF ext 2
       ON1 - OSPF NSSA ext 1, ON2 - OSPF NSSA ext 2
D   1010:1010:1010::/48 [90/2297856]
     via FE80::226:BFF:FE3E:5270, Serial0/0/0
D   2020:2020:2020::/48 [90/2297856]
     via FE80::226:BFF:FE3E:5270, Serial0/0/0
D   3030:3030:3030::/48 [90/2297856]
     via FE80::226:BFF:FE3E:5378, Serial0/0/1
D   4040:4040:4040::/48 [90/2297856]
     via FE80::226:BFF:FE3E:5378, Serial0/0/1

Would you look at that, the routing is done the same way as before.

 

 

Yeah right... We are totally going to go back to software based switching and routing. LOL
CEF already supports IPv6, and I am fairly sure the hardware based switching and routing technologies from other companies are also ready for IPv6. Software based switching and routing are slow as balls compared to doing it in ASICs.
Source for CEF supporting IPv6 here.

 

 

We don't even have that today. That would be insane.

 

 

This right here should be more than enough evidence to classify Qain as a fucking moron. Yeah, let's fill the routing table of every single router with billions of entries. Even on IPv4 we use things such as summarization to keep the routing tables as short as possible. Now this moron thinks that every router should know every single IP in the entire world. Does this guy even know what routing protocols are?

 

 

No it doesn't work like that. In fact, a router won't ask for a route to a destination. If it gets a packet and the destination is not in its routing table, it will drop the packet by default. It won't ask another router for a way. Switching kind of works by asking, but switching doesn't have anything to do with IPv6.
Also, isn't the "I know everything" exactly what you said IPv6 would do? This guy doesn't know how IPv4 or IPv6 works, and yet he pretends like he does.

 

Or his classic "the only reason to use 5GHz WiFi is because it penetrates walls better than 2.4GHz" bullshit:

 

 

It's the exact opposite by the way. 5GHz is worse at penetrating walls, but has other benefits such as wider channels and less interference, which allows for higher speeds.

I would probably be able to find more bullshit said by Qain but I can't stand watching him.

I agree with you entirely, only Wendell has shown a broad knowledge of science and technology from the TekSyndicate.

[legopc]

How about we ask what @LinusTech has to say about it? 

[rEaGeNeReary]

I just want to see the world burn and let Linus continue doing servers/networking videos. It will be fun watching threads about help in configuring a server/networking gear.

[LogicalDrm]

46 minutes ago, Jstone said:

I get where you are coming from and this statement is not to defend them but do you actually think these guys know half of what they are doing?

Knowing some is different from knowing what they are doing. Like my future profession (geology). You get basics in high school. But you need 3+ years Uni studies to actually be able to understand it all. As for tech, I don't know enough details to be able to say whether they are talking facts or bullshit when it comes to servers, networking etc. All I see is Linus goofing around with $10k gear and thats enough for me to switch to another channel for better information.

 

@.:MARK:. @LAwLz as said above. My knowledge when it comes to tech is very limited and works on consumer level only. And very limited on that end also. Which makes me incapable to say whether their content in those parts is accurate on anyway or not. Tek Syndicate has more professional way of representing things which makes me believe more of their bullshit than what LMG provides.

[LogicalDrm]

1 minute ago, legopc said:

How about we ask what @LinusTech has to say about it? 

He doesn't have forum notifs enabled. But I'm sure someone links this to his Skype or Twitter at some point.

[Networking Wolf]

Just now, LoGiCalDrm said:

Knowing some is different from knowing what they are doing. Like my future profession (geology). You get basics in high school. But you need 3+ years Uni studies to actually be able to understand it all. As for tech, I don't know enough details to be able to say whether they are talking facts or bullshit when it comes to servers, networking etc. All I see is Linus goofing around with $10k gear and thats enough for me to switch to another channel for better information.

 

@.:MARK:. @LAwLz as said above. My knowledge when it comes to tech is very limited and works on consumer level only. And very limited on that end also. Which makes me incapable to say whether their content in those parts is accurate on anyway or not. Tek Syndicate has more professional way of representing things which makes me believe more of their bullshit than what LMG provides.

I know where you are coming from. Currently I am a Dell technician. I have gone to a few calls where they say they watched a video on youtube and wanted to try it and it ends up bricking the system. I am also currently going for computer programing and I fully understand what your are saying. I watch his videos with a grain of salt.

[legopc]

3 minutes ago, Jstone said:

Currently I am a Dell technician.

Dell tech for what? 

[Networking Wolf]

1 minute ago, legopc said:

Dell tech for what? 

I currently fix servers, desktops, laptops, and all in ones. I am in training to work on EMC servers

[legopc]

2 minutes ago, Jstone said:

I currently fix servers, desktops, laptops, and all in ones. I am in training to work on EMC servers

You edited your post but I remember you saying that these video's help you? 

[.:MARK:.]

3 minutes ago, Jstone said:

I currently fix servers, desktops, laptops, and all in ones. I am in training to work on EMC servers

For your training and benefit, please learn from other sources, Linus himself says he does not know.

[Networking Wolf]

1 minute ago, legopc said:

You edited your post but I remember you saying that these video's help you? 

They help to show me when I go to calls where the client says he or she saw this on youtube and they wanted to try it out. It shows me what they probably did and how to fix it within an hour

[.:MARK:.]

Just now, Jstone said:

They help to show me when I go to calls where the client says he or she saw this on youtube and they wanted to try it out. It shows me what they probably did and how to fix it within an hour

So you're saying that clients are following Linus and breaking things? And you watch the videos to know what they messed up?

[Networking Wolf]

Just now, .:MARK:. said:

So you're saying that clients are following Linus and breaking things? And you watch the videos to know what they messed up?

correct either him or another youtuber. Other than that I watch their content for comedy purposes. I was in traing for about 3 weeks for my job before I was let out into the feild, this was for a few certifications.