International question about programming

[mikestechs]

Hello Guys, I have question for everybody around the world who try to learn how to programming. I'm 17 years old and Im in second grade on "IT" high school. In the first grade the teachers has learned us about basic, i have learned how codes work, rules for programming etc. In the first half of the second grade i have learned basic about HTML and also real programming language JAVA. Now we do IF and SWITCH at school. I want to ask you, how about you and programming at your schools around the world ? I feel tired of learning only at school becouse i'm 17 and i feel like i still can't create something functional. Thank you for your answers!!!

[minibois]

I'm from the Netherlands and doing a software development study

We don't do much Java, only a little bit for Android development. As my study kinda focused on gaming development, I learned a lot of Unity3D which uses Javascript or C# (but we did C# only).

Other than that of course we learned the basics of HTML and CSS and the web development portion of my study goes a lot more in depth about PHP.

 

If you still feel like you can't create anything after 2 years, you probably should teach yourself some stuff. Make some stuff, experiment with languages and make projects. This will help a lot in internships and later work.

[mikestechs]

1 minute ago, Minibois said:

I'm from the Netherlands and doing a software development.

We don't do much Java, only a little bit for Android development. As my study kinda focused on gaming development, I learned a lot of Unity3D which uses Javascript or C# (but we did C# only).

Other than that of course we learned the basics of HTML and CSS and the web development portion of my study goes a lot more in depth about PHP.

 

If you still feel like you can't create anything after 2 years, you probably should teach yourself some stuff. Make some stuff, experiment with languages and make projects. This will help a lot in internships and later work.

Thank you for your post. I'll try to be better by my self! Keep work!

[mkylem]

The programming classes at the schools I've attended (over here in the United States) haven't been great. I learn on my own, though I still don't think I can make anything functional, but that's what drives my auto-didactic tendencies.

 

Schools seem to only give you the basics of what allows you to build, but it's not enough for something event driven or complex graphics rendering.

Edited February 16, 2016 by mkylem
I think clarification of where I attended schools is important to include.

[leonard_sun]

when I was still a student (feeling real old right now) it was TC (That's Turbo C) that we were taught to code with. It was fun to make the question and answer type programs. In collage we took up C++ and Java. 

 

in the field of IT it's always better to first construct a problem, like making a program that will keep tabs of your grade or purchases. Once you have a "problem" to solve you can code to solve it. From there it'll be more fun to construct more functional and more complex "problems."

[mikestechs]

1 minute ago, mkylem said:

The programming classes at the schools I've attended haven't been great. I learn on my own, though I still don't think I can make anything functional, but that's what drives my auto-didactic tendencies.

 

Schools seem to only give you the basics of what allows you to build, but it's not enough for something event driven or complex graphics rendering.

Also thank you for reply. Do you think i can learn Java and for example C++ for the same time or is better to "complete" learning Java and then jumpin C++ or other ? 

[mikestechs]

2 minutes ago, leonard_sun said:

when I was still a student (feeling real old right now) it was TC (That's Turbo C) that we were taught to code with. It was fun to make the question and answer type programs. In collage we took up C++ and Java. 

 

in the field of IT it's always better to first construct a problem, like making a program that will keep tabs of your grade or purchases. Once you have a "problem" to solve you can code to solve it. From there it'll be more fun to construct more functional and more complex "problems."

Okay! Thank for answer.

[mkylem]

Just now, mikestechs said:

Also thank you for reply. Do you think i can learn Java and for example C++ for the same time or is better to "complete" learning Java and then jumpin C++ or other ? 

I think C++ is a lot better than Java in many ways, but it's entirely dependent what you'd like to work on. They're similar enough that it shouldn't be a problem swapping between them since Java was based off of C++, but I hate that Java ONLY uses pointers.

[mikestechs]

2 minutes ago, mkylem said:

I think C++ is a lot better than Java in many ways, but it's entirely dependent what you'd like to work on. They're similar enough that it shouldn't be a problem swapping between them since Java was based off of C++, but I hate that Java ONLY uses pointers.

At our school in the first grade we needed to pick if we will learn C# or Java. I pick Java, but i know if i want to succeed and i want to work like programmer i need to know much more than Java.

[leonard_sun]

7 minutes ago, mikestechs said:

Also thank you for reply. Do you think i can learn Java and for example C++ for the same time or is better to "complete" learning Java and then jumpin C++ or other ? 

I'd like use the term: Logic is logic for this. The languages are just a way of stating in code what your mind can construct. So it wound't really matter which language you use, so long as you are proficient in solving problems or creating code that does things. That said, it's always good to know multiple languages.

 

I do prefer C++ to Java though that's more due to the fact that at our school we begun with the C language which of course has more similar syntax than java.

[mkylem]

Just now, mikestechs said:

At our school in the first grade we needed to pick if we will learn C# or Java. I pick Java, but i know if i want to succeed and i want to work like programmer i need to know much more than Java.

Not really. It depends on where you're going to work and what you'll be doing. It's important to know some scripting like Python or Lua and something for "proper" programming like Java/C#/C++ or anything else. It still seems like C++ is the industry standard as it's used for a lot of engines and SDKs. It shouldn't be a problem if you're learning C++ and Java at the same time, but if you want to do them separately, that should be fine as well. It just depends how you want to spend your time.

[mikestechs]

2 minutes ago, mkylem said:

Not really. It depends on where you're going to work and what you'll be doing. It's important to know some scripting like Python or Lua and something for "proper" programming like Java/C#/C++ or anything else. It still seems like C++ is the industry standard as it's used for a lot of engines and SDKs. It shouldn't be a problem if you're learning C++ and Java at the same time, but if you want to do them separately, that should be fine as well. It just depends how you want to spend your time.

True. I will see but for now i want to learn basic in Java and then i will star C++. 

[Nineshadow]

41 minutes ago, mkylem said:

I think C++ is a lot better than Java in many ways, but it's entirely dependent what you'd like to work on. They're similar enough that it shouldn't be a problem swapping between them since Java was based off of C++, but I hate that Java ONLY uses pointers.

Java only uses pointers?

What do you mean by that?

 

Java doesn't even have pointers, it has references , which aren't like C++ references , but more like a handle. Are all class-based types essentially handled through pointers? Yes , of course , but this is never exposed to the user and you never really notice it. All objects are stored on the heap , and their location can change throughout the run-time. So you always refer to objects using references.

[mkylem]

28 minutes ago, Nineshadow said:

Java only uses pointers?

What do you mean by that?

 

Java doesn't even have pointers, it has references , which aren't like C++ references , but more like a handle. Are all class-based types essentially handled through pointers? Yes , of course , but this is never exposed to the user and you never really notice it. All objects are stored on the heap , and their location can change throughout the run-time. So you always refer to objects using references.

It's like driving an automatic vs a manual. You should have control over it unless you don't know how to organize and follow through with execution. The programmer should be allowed to choose heap vs stack whenever they want rather than be forced to use whatever is most convenient.

 

It's always felt regardless if the user can see it or not, it's inherent to the running of the program. Part of why Minecraft on the Raspberry Pi has to be in C++ is because the fine adjustments required to make a minimum viable product of that game run on such low-powered hardware is impossible in Java. 

[Nineshadow]

12 minutes ago, mkylem said:

It's like driving an automatic vs a manual. You should have control over it unless you don't know how to organize and follow through with execution. The programmer should be allowed to choose heap vs stack whenever they want rather than be forced to use whatever is most convenient.

 

It's always felt regardless if the user can see it or not, it's inherent to the running of the program. Part of why Minecraft on the Raspberry Pi has to be in C++ is because the fine adjustments required to make a minimum viable product of that game run on such low-powered hardware is impossible in Java. 

Yeah , I agree

 

. But I still didn't get

Java uses ONLY pointers

 

[JFischer00]

1 hour ago, leonard_sun said:

when I was still a student (feeling real old right now) it was TC (That's Turbo C) that we were taught to code with. It was fun to make the question and answer type programs. In collage we took up C++ and Java. 

 

in the field of IT it's always better to first construct a problem, like making a program that will keep tabs of your grade or purchases. Once you have a "problem" to solve you can code to solve it. From there it'll be more fun to construct more functional and more complex "problems."

+1 for making a problem to solve. Anytime I learn concepts and follow simple examples, programming is super boring. However, when I have a real, complex problem to solve (either self-created or a tutorial or whatever, doesn't matter), it's the most fun thing in the world.

[madknight3]

2 hours ago, mikestechs said:

I feel tired of learning only at school

There are so many resources out there for you to continue learning on your own. Books, video courses, written tutorials, official documentation, etc. Also, start working on your own stuff in your free time. You need to practice and apply what you're learning to fully understand it. You can also build up a portfolio of things you've done to show future employers which can go a long way to helping you get a good job when the time comes.

 

In terms of books, check out Must-reads for Java Developers: From Beginner to Professional. The Java books will give you a deeper understanding of the language along with some general programming knowledge that will apply to other languages. Pretty much everything else teaches you general skills that you can use in many different languages. They are about improving your skills in writing software in general, not in using a specific language so they will introduce you to so many different topics that you probably wouldn't have ever thought about.

 

Here is a list of more resources that cover multiple languages/topics. Also if you have any interest in Computer Science, check out Open Source Society University. It's a collection of free online courses that cover a variety of CS topics.

 

Finally, just have fun with it. There's a lot to learn, but you don't have to learn it all at once. No one expects you to either. It's knowledge you'll build over years, not days, so just take it a step at a time. 

[DevBlox]

No school ever will stuff the right aptitude in your head to become a good programmer, only proficient at "academic stuff" aptitude, which does not translate into robust and well designed real world applications quite as well. That's why I feel there are many programmers on the face of the earth, but not that many that can actually write good and maintainable code. You have two ways to learn this, it's best to utilize them both. Those are: work in enterprise for awhile where you can learn the trade from seniors and read books, there are great books about code design that are for advanced programmers, you have to have the right way of thinking around the problems when you read those (get some books for that too, and then code code code a lot), because the next step is to write code that will put people in awe when they read it.

[alex_read]

The points above I'd like to echo would be to learn on your own through books, videos etc. on top of your course then. Think of a program YOU would like to have & use, or that you think would be really fun to develop then piece by piece slowly try to build it (asking advice at each step if needed from us or your teachers etc.). You can get by with just 1 language - be really proficient and viewed as an expert in many areas but this will limit your job prospects and could become a big hurdle if the goalposts change later (I speak from experience with that part), best to learn the fundamentals & not limit yourself already now.

[RobinCrusader]

With the exception with web based programming, my school doesn't have any programming courses. I originally learned by starting with simple stuff and figuring out how it worked then move from there with occasional tips from others. A good way to learn a new langauge or part of a language is taking a project or idea you want to make then find similar things people have coded then use that a base of ground to start your idea. For example over the summer, I wanted to make a web based UI to access and watch all my downloaded movies and shows without really knowing any web based languages. So I just started simple and with the basics then went from there. After about two months I ended up with a nice working UI as such.

 

So it's really just find something to make as you learn because you'll be more enthusiastic about it, get something out of it, and have a better understanding of what you're doing.