How do i monitor a USB Microphone at all times?

[Disultory]

Hello there fellow techies!

It's been itching me for months to get a USB Condenser Microphone (Namely either a Blue Spark Digital or a Rode NTUSB).

The only thing that keeps me from it is that i don't know of a latency free (well as latency free as it gets, im using the Windows Monitoring option right now with a 3,5mm jacked microphone and that works great for me) way to monitor the microphone at all times. And since i really don't know how good the audioquality is if im using the available monitoring jacks on either microphone (Im using a Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro as my headphones), im looking for a different way to get it to work. I also have a Xonar DGX and im thinking about getting a FiiO E10K aswell, and i really don't want to miss out on that sweet sound. Hence the question, is there a way for me to mix the output from the microphone (and as said, it does have a 3,5mm jack output to go directly to headphones, but i really feel like a simple 2x 3,5mm male to 1x 3,5mm female, males going into the microphone and pc, headphones to adapter female sounds way too easy to actually work) to my headphones with no noticable delay, mixed in to my PC sounds? I know of ways to do it whilst recording, but those arent really latency free and as said i need it at all times. Help is highly appreciated!

[skyress3000]

I'm pretty sure the output on the mic is just the output from the computer mixed with the mic output; it should be the same quality as whatever comes out of your PC...

[Axeonelite]

A Yamaha Audiogram 6 has a input for headphones for monitoring on the interface before going to the computer. 

[Disultory]

I'm pretty sure the output on the mic is just the output from the computer mixed with the mic output; it should be the same quality as whatever comes out of your PC...

Well the Microphones are plugged into the PC with USB so i can't plug it into the soundcard.

[thekeemo]

Well the Microphones are plugged into the PC with USB so i can't plug it into the soundcard.

right click on the sound icon go to recording devices right click on the mic go to properties and then listen.

[Disultory]

i've heard people use that and complaining about delay. Can anyone with a USB microphone confirm that the delay is not noticable? I knew that option was available, just didn't think to mention it because people on other forums said that the delay is unbearable. Thanks anyways!

[Disultory]

Okay i just tried it, had my G430 Soundcard lying around, plugged my Mic into that, and my headphones to the Xonar DGX, used the Listen feature and the delay is just too much. I'd gladly change to an XLR microphone if theres any way to mix the sounds with an Audiointerface or something.
 

[Philosobyte]

The only reason to get a USB microphone above $150 would be portability/space. With a USB microphone you're stuck with the internal preamp and AD/DA converters, which don't tend to be of the highest quality.

 

At the budget of $200 I suggest an MXL V67G and a Mackie Blackjack. And Monoprice XLR cables. The MXL V67G is already nicer than most of the competition at that price range, but If you ever have the time you can mod the MXL in several ways to get better sound: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/geekslutz-forum/87802-mxl-v67-mic-mods.html

If you have a higher budget, then I suggest the CAD M179 instead of the V67G.

[Disultory]

Sure, im actually looking into XLR Condensers now and what you said basically confirms what i read elsewhere. It's still not clear to me how i can be able to monitor what i say with no latency without losing the audioquality on music, games etc my soundcard gives me / a FiiO E10K will give me on music, games etc. Care to explain? Thanks! My Budget is around 220€

[Philosobyte]

Sure, im actually looking into XLR Condensers now and what you said basically confirms what i read elsewhere. It's still not clear to me how i can be able to monitor what i say with no latency without losing the audioquality on music, games etc my soundcard gives me / a FiiO E10K will give me on music, games etc. Care to explain? Thanks! My Budget is around 220€

First of all, some of the better audio interfaces have such low latency that even when monitoring using a program in Windows where data has to go from the audio interface through USB to the computer and then back through USB to the audio interface and your headphones, you wouldn't notice lag. 

 

But pretty much all audio interfaces have a direct monitoring function which takes your microphone inputs and send them to both the computer and your headphones/speakers. That doesn't require any processing or work on the computer's part and has no latency. For example, if you look at photos of the Mackie Onyx Blackjack, you can see a button labeled "Input Monitor." That turns on the output to your headphones. 

Edited January 22, 2016 by Philosobyte

[Disultory]

Okay so what i've been assuming is that a Focusrite Scarlett Solo, Mackie Onyx Blackjack etc. all have integrated USB Soundcards so i can be able to listen to Systemsounds whilst im Monitoring the Microphone. Is that correct? Because that would still mean that i can't take advantage of a FiiO E10K or Xonar DGX. Im confused.

[Philosobyte]

Okay so what i've been assuming is that a Focusrite Scarlett Solo, Mackie Onyx Blackjack etc. all have integrated USB Soundcards so i can be able to listen to Systemsounds whilst im Monitoring the Microphone. Is that correct? Because that would still mean that i can't take advantage of a FiiO E10K or Xonar DGX. Im confused.

I didn't realize you wanted to use the headphone output on an external DAC. I'm going to experiment with my Steinberg UR22 and see if the first option I described is applicable - I'll get back to you in about ten minutes. Also please don't get the Focusrite Solo or 2i2. Their preamps are not as good as the Blackjack's and the AD/DA conversion is about equal. 

[Disultory]

I don't exactly know if that ones available in germany, but i'll make sure to check. Also, the way i thought it may work is, on a Behringer Xenyx 302 (Don't worry, i won't get that one) you can set a Line input to output to only the headphones, not to the main mix, so in theory i should be able to connect a FiiO E10K with a 3,5mm to Chinch adapter to the Line 1 on the 302, set that to only output to the headphones, have the Live Monitoring on and set XLR Input to Output to Main Mix which is outputting via USB. I hope that made some kind of sense. And thanks alot for your help!

[Philosobyte]

I don't exactly know if that ones available in germany, but i'll make sure to check. Also, the way i thought it may work is, on a Behringer Xenyx 302 (Don't worry, i won't get that one) you can set a Line input to output to only the headphones, not to the main mix, so in theory i should be able to connect a FiiO E10K with a 3,5mm to Chinch adapter to the Line 1 on the 302, set that to only output to the headphones, have the Live Monitoring on and set XLR Input to Output to Main Mix which is outputting via USB. I hope that made some kind of sense. And thanks alot for your help!

At least on the UR22 at a rate of 64 samples at 44.1kHz, the latency was very low, at 4ms, and I could not detect any lag at all, even with percussive sounds, when my headphone was plugged in to my laptop's output instead of the UR22's output. Note that I was using a dedicated DAW program - Windows Input Monitoring added a ton of lag, I'd wager 50ms or more. 

 

And if you get a Blackjack or UR22MkII (which has a more powerful headphone amp, at 35mW instead of 18mW), there's really no reason to get a Fiio. The AD/DA conversion should be almost indistinguishable and perhaps even slightly in favor of the audio interfaces. 

 

That idea with the 302USB would likely work, but that means you're only using the Fiio E10K as an amplifier and not for its D/A conversion. I'm not that hot on amps or DACs, but as far as I know, good amps don't affect the sound, they only increase the volume of it. The Custom One Pro has high enough sensitivity that it doesn't need heavy amplification - so if you go this route, I think the Fiio E10K pretty much has no effect on the sound. Correct me if I'm wrong, guys. 

 

Also, the 302USB probably works for many people and has acceptable audio quality, but the cheapest audio mixer/interface I would recommend is the Blackjack (which also happens to be one of the best in the price range) because of reliability issues and malfunctions my friends have had with Behringers in that price range.

[Disultory]

I don't know alot about Soundcards, but what i know is that my COPs do sound better on a E10K than on my Xonar, i put them head to head, and Headfi would literally rip you apart for stating what you just stated about Amps and Soundcards. They did that to me atleast Also, Equalizer and stuff.

 

The testing you did really is much appreciated and im sure by now that i wont be buying a USB Microphone. The main question still stands, atleast if i didnt miss anything. How would i be able to take the output of a FiiO E10K and Mix it into the Microphone monitoring, since i definitely wont be using the Audiointerface to get Windows Sounds to my headphones, especially because there probably isnt an equalizer, and the soundquality wont be as good as a FiiO E10K. Sorry for being a nuisance, i just want to make sure i actually understand it

[EndlessOyster]

If you want to monitor your microphone. Just download the software virtual cables. Then use the software to send your microphone input to your output.

[Philosobyte]

 

I don't know alot about Soundcards, but what i know is that my COPs do sound better on a E10K than on my Xonar, i put them head to head, and Headfi would literally rip you apart for stating what you just stated about Amps and Soundcards. They did that to me atleast   Also, Equalizer and stuff.

 

The testing you did really is much appreciated and im sure by now that i wont be buying a USB Microphone. The main question still stands, atleast if i didnt miss anything. How would i be able to take the output of a FiiO E10K and Mix it into the Microphone monitoring, since i definitely wont be using the Audiointerface to get Windows Sounds to my headphones, especially because there probably isnt an equalizer, and the soundquality wont be as good as a FiiO E10K. Sorry for being a nuisance, i just want to make sure i actually understand it

Headfi is considered by many LTT members to be a highly unreliable forum. A much more reliable forum is Gearslutz.

As for an equalizer, you can use EqualizerAPO: http://sourceforge.net/projects/equalizerapo/

It works well - I use the "Graphic Equalizer with variable bands" option and EQ my headphones to be more neutral using InnerFidelity's headphone measurements: http://www.innerfidelity.com/headphone-data-sheet-downloads

 

Headphone amps try not to affect the sound - the most important things that separate good amps from bad amps are THD (total harmonic distortion), noise floor, and output impedance. LTT's more experienced audio members (especially SSL, he's a god) discuss some of that here: http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/529599-are-the-hd-800-a-worth-while-to-buy/

 

As for your statement that you can hear a difference between the FiiO E10K and the Xonar, I can hear a substantial difference between my UR22 and my Macbook Air's audio output as well. 

 

As for the FiiO E10K vs UR22MkII AD/DA debate, let's take an objective look at their D/A chips. The UR22MkII uses the Cirrus Logic CS4272 chip: http://www.cirrus.com/en/pubs/proDatasheet/CS4272_F1.pdf

The FiiO E10K uses the Texas Instruments PCM5102: http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/pcm5102.pdf

 

Signal to Noise ratio:

CS4272: 114 dB

PCM5102: 112 dB

 

Total Harmonic Distortion:

CS4272: -100 dB

PCM5102: -93 dB

 

Both measurements are superior in the CS4272. 

 

If you insist on using the FiiO E10K, then don't get the Blackjack, and definitely don't get the Focusrite interfaces. Both are known to have high latency. You could buy the UR12 because it's $50 cheaper than the UR22MkII. If you do that, then you sacrifice 17mW of headphone output power, and I'm not completely sure if the latency would be identical. But Steinberg has always written good drivers. 

 

Alright, here's how I would do it if I were using an E10K and a UR22.

 

1. Plug in your FiiO E10K to a USB port. Plug your headphones into the FiiO. 

 

2. Plug in your Steinberg interface to another USB port. Plug the XLR cable leading to your microphone into one of the XLR ports. 

 

3. Search "Yamaha" in the Windows search bar, and click on Yamaha Steinberg USB Driver. In the "Steinberg UR22" tab, make sure it's set to 44.1kHz. In the ASIO tab, set the samples all the way down to 64. 

 

4. Open Cubase AI (free DAW which comes with Steinberg interfaces. I think Studio One Prime is a free DAW which will also do the trick), click Create, open the Project menu, hover over Add Track, click Audio. Select Mono, then go to the newly created track and click on the speaker icon, which turns on monitoring. Voila - you can now hear yourself talking with 4ms latency. 

 

If you want to use a different USB interface, you could control the sample sizes by downloading ASIO4ALL. No guarantee on latency, though. 

 

About the Virtual Audio Cable mentioned by EndlessOyster - I haven't used it, but all it replaces is the DAW. It doesn't affect your hardware setup. 

[Disultory]

Thanks alot! I'll definitely keep that in mind, sadly the UR22 is a bit over my budget, apperantly those things are more expensive here in germany. My options are a Focusrite Scarlett Solo, Steinberg UR12 and a Presonus Audiobox USB. Also, after i did a bit of thinking yesterday i realized there are 3,5mm Amps, namely a FiiO E6. I could use the Audiointerface as a D/A converter, plug the Amp into the Monitoring port and just use that as my audiosetup right? I assume it would probably sound pretty close to a E10K. Thanks a whole lot man.

[Philosobyte]

Thanks alot! I'll definitely keep that in mind, sadly the UR22 is a bit over my budget, apperantly those things are more expensive here in germany. My options are a Focusrite Scarlett Solo, Steinberg UR12 and a Presonus Audiobox USB. Also, after i did a bit of thinking yesterday i realized there are 3,5mm Amps, namely a FiiO E6. I could use the Audiointerface as a D/A converter, plug the Amp into the Monitoring port and just use that as my audiosetup right? I assume it would probably sound pretty close to a E10K. Thanks a whole lot man.

If you're using something like the E6, then you won't even need a DAW as I described in my previous post, because you can just turn on input monitoring. That means latency isn't an issue. I would still choose the UR12, though, for its more neutral preamp and better conversion over the Solo. Both the UR12 and Solo are better than the Presonus Audiobox - Presonus makes good software, but not class-leading hardware. None of the interfaces you mentioned are likely to have a lot of headroom driving your COP headphones by themselves, but the E6 would help with that.

 

If you plug the E6 into an audio interface, then you're effectively using two amps - both the audio interface's internal amp and the E6's amp. But that's true no matter what consumer device you plug the E6 into, whether it's a smartphone or computer or other DAC. 

Yeah, what you described with the E6 would work. 

 

Just a side note: when an amp attempts to change the sound with unadvertised treble/bass boost or advertised options for "Bass boost," that doesn't mean the quality of the amp is higher. It just means that they're adding an EQ along with the amp, and thus people think the amp sounds "more detailed" or otherwise better. In reality you can create the same effect through a software EQ.

Edited January 23, 2016 by Philosobyte

[Drgnkllr.]

Hey Philosobyte and Disultory,

 

I know this post is quite old but I tackle the same problem rn and I hope you guys are still active and have a solution for me aswell, only thing is I already own a Behringer UMC22(I know it aint a good choice but excuse me its dirt cheap and does its job ^^), since I love my dt990 and here comes the kicker 250 Ohms I thought aight I think I want a amp/dac to get some good quality music out of em by now and also can listen it at some volume. I decided for the fiio e10k(probably again not the best choice but it's like 50 bucks on ebay and from what Ive heard really packs a punch for the price, at least half the web thinks that).

Anyways...

I got it delivered today and I thought: Aight I just leave Mic monitoring on my interface on and use the line out on the back to plug it into the interface's headphone jack. Should work right?

Tried it, worked, but sounded extremely silent and dull. No comparison to what it sounded like before. Like someone sitting in the back of my head but locked in 4 steel walls, no windows or doors anywhere, trying to talk to me. Also once I had a game running it wouldnt be loud enough to even know it was there, and I dont game on extreme volumes.

SO I tried the coax cable, of course couldnt work bc its digital out not analog. Googled didnt find a lot and since Im used to my hardware handling it I cant really consider software solutions, the delay is mostly horrible and since I dont have Steinberg drivers, obviously, I cant put down the sample rate outside of windows, which is the only thing I didnt try considering a software solution.

I tried if the line out is broken, but it isn't, it works perfectly fine and sounds clear on a battery speaker.

Only thing I can imagine is to try a headphone jack splitter female to 2x male all TRS, but idk what it would do to the quality or volume. So basically headphone into female TRS and one male into the behringers headphone jack which only gives back the monitoring sound and the other one in the fiio e10k which is selected as the main device on windows and all games. I only had an old one of those splitters from a razer kraken pro so a speaker/mic splitter, no matter which way I tried it one of the 2 sides(always the same one) sounds horrible. So I might aswell consider its a broken cable.

Does anyone know why the sound is so dull and if I can fix it on the one end? Or does a splitter cable would work as a hardware solution, for what I am trying to do, considering my old one is simply broken I guess, or it doesnt work because it's a mic/speaker splitter? I have no idea how to solve this, I probably tried all plug in out left and right combinations I could imagine for it to work.

Right now my setup looks like this:

Headphones>FiiO e10k(USB)>PC

and

FiiO e10k(line out)>(this was the instinct which ended in the dull sound)UMC22(Headphone In)>(USB)PC

I left the mic out of the equasion here. It still works and if I put everything as it was it also works perfectly fine.

 

I hope you guys can help me and read this some time soon.