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Re-creating the first ever Apple computer

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Hi there!

I am a high school student, and I have to make some cool project in a few months. I have began thinking about what to do, and my interest and love for hardware meant that I wanted to do something with circuits. After spending many time thinking in the shower and at 1:00am I have come up with the idea to remake the first ever apple computer. I am willing to spend 100€ and my entire summer vacation. How possible is this, am I a dreamy fool or a young pioneer? If you say the latter, I am open to ideas. And if you choose the second one, could you please point me in the right direction?

 

Thanks in advance

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It would be a monumental task. 

wozniak was quite brilliant. 

CPU: Intel 3570 GPUs: Nvidia GTX 660Ti Case: Fractal design Define R4  Storage: 1TB WD Caviar Black & 240GB Hyper X 3k SSD Sound: Custom One Pros Keyboard: Ducky Shine 4 Mouse: Logitech G500

 

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Start designing them PCBs...

http://www.freeinfosociety.com/electronics/schemview.php?id=1472

 

You also might not be able to source all the parts.

i7-6700K | EVGA GTX 980 SC | Fractal Designs Core 500 | MSI Z170I AC | Corsair 32 GB 2666 MHz

 550W CM PSU | Noctua NH-D14 | Samsung 850 Evo 250GB | PCPartPicker

Surface Pro 3 8GB | 256GB

 

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Like hard ware wise or software?

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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Couldn't I breadboard?

 

I don't mean to shit on your aspirations, but you need to find out if you can still source compatible parts since this thing was developed decades ago and those parts would most likely be in museums. This is especially true for the processor and the memory, but could extend to any ICs (aka stuff you can't make without a megabucks fab). It would be much easier to work with a modern architecture to emulate the old software, which is freely available. 

 

Even if you can get compatible parts, you still need some EE knowledge to make sure they all work together, especially for the analogue parts (intimate knowledge of Kirchoff laws, solving 1st and 2nd order ODEs, intimate knowledge with op-amps and feedback circuits).

 

But at that stage, why would you do this project, since it takes less than a day to setup the software side... There are lots of easier and as fulfilling projects you can do with the Arduino and the RPI.

i7-6700K | EVGA GTX 980 SC | Fractal Designs Core 500 | MSI Z170I AC | Corsair 32 GB 2666 MHz

 550W CM PSU | Noctua NH-D14 | Samsung 850 Evo 250GB | PCPartPicker

Surface Pro 3 8GB | 256GB

 

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Hardware

A raspberry pi would be faster then it but I am guessing you want full custom PCBs

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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Couldn't I breadboard?

with maybe twelve million breadboards and transistors yeah...

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I don't mean to shit on your aspirations, but you need to find out if you can still source compatible parts since this thing was developed decades ago and those parts would most likely be in museums. This is especially true for the processor and the memory, but could extend to any ICs (aka stuff you can't make without a megabucks fab). It would be much easier to work with a modern architecture to emulate the old software, which is freely available. 

 

But at that stage, why would you do this project, since it takes less than a day to setup the software side... There are lots of easier and as fulfilling projects you can do with the Arduino and the RPI.

This doesnt make it look so challenging - 

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This doesnt make it look so challenging - 

 

OK I see, so it's a generic 6502 based computer. It doesn't necessarily use the same design or circuitry as an old Apple I. You could probably do that, but unless you have access to an EE lab it wont be cheap. The instrumentation (PSU, Scope, etc...) are equipment which are at least $2k-$10k each (a cheap oscilloscope is $200 and that relies on an iPad for display out, I wouldn't use a cheap unregulated PSU for this since the chips are old). I'd recommend going to a university or company or your school (if your school is rich) and asking if you can use their EE labs. Also, I don't know where he sourced his parts in the video (to be honest I skimmed it only), but you might still have problems there. I've seen some 6502s on ebay (I've only seen it on ebay, probably due to my "you can't make this stuff anymore" comment above), I don't know their condition, but you need to know the SKU of the memory and rom as well if you want to follow that video.

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OK I see, so it's a generic 6502 based computer. It doesn't necessarily use the same design or circuitry as an old Apple I. You could probably do that, but unless you have access to an EE lab it wont be cheap. The instrumentation (PSU, Scope, etc...) are equipment which are at least $2k-$10k each (a cheap oscilloscope is $200 and that relies on an iPad for display out, I wouldn't use a cheap unregulated PSU for this since the chips are old). I'd recommend going to a university or company or your school (if your school is rich) and asking if you can use their EE labs. Also, I don't know where he sourced his parts in the video (to be honest I skimmed it only), but you might still have problems there. I've seen some 6502s on ebay (I've only seen it on ebay, probably due to my "you can't make this stuff anymore" comment above), I don't know their condition, but you need to know the SKU of the memory and rom as well if you want to follow that video.

I most likely have no access to a EE lab, seem to be underfunded and lack some serious knowledge about computer hardware, so I am not too optimistic about this. Would it be more realistic if I made something along the lines of a RPI out of scratch?

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I most likely have no access to a EE lab, seem to be underfunded and lack some serious knowledge about computer hardware, so I am not too optimistic about this. Would it be more realistic if I made something along the lines of a RPI out of scratch?

 

You can make a RPI clone, they have well defined open schmatics here: https://www.raspberrypi.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Raspberry-Pi-Schematics-R1.0.pdf. I would hope to think the parts are easier to source (you might even get them for free, since manufacturers are only interested in selling in bulk and will often give out free samples to students). There is also most likely well documented up to date data sheets. You probably still need lab equipment though, because it's unlikely you'll get it working in the first try, and will require some troubleshooting.

 

However, in general, I think the main difference between the 6502 and the Broadcom chip (RPI) project is 1. sourcing everything you need, 2. getting a working schematic since you don't have a team of engineers and lots of funding, and 3. the ability to troubleshoot with good datasheets. 

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You can make a RPI clone, they have well defined open schmatics here: https://www.raspberrypi.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Raspberry-Pi-Schematics-R1.0.pdf. I would hope to think the parts are easier to source (you might even get them for free, since manufacturers are only interested in selling in bulk and will often give out free samples to students). There is also most likely well documented up to date data sheets. You probably still need lab equipment though, because it's unlikely you'll get it working in the first try, and will require some troubleshooting.

 

However, in general, I think the main difference between the 6502 and the Broadcom chip (RPI) project is 1. sourcing everything you need, 2. getting a working schematic since you don't have a team of engineers and lots of funding, and 3. the ability to troubleshoot with good datasheets. 

So do you thinks its possible for a student with no assess to a EE lab, little/no knowledge about computer hardware but with the internet all to himself, to make a RPI replica in 2-3 months? 

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So do you thinks its possible for a student with no assess to a EE lab, little/no knowledge about computer hardware but with the internet all to himself, to make a RPI replica in 2-3 months? 

 

Honestly given a schematic anyone can wire together the parts and cross their fingers and hope it works, so yes you can do this...

 

I personally would not do this as it has very little novelty, but to each his own I guess... I'm personally of the belief that with cheaper ICs and SoCs, logic boards (such as the RPI or the board of the Apple I) are simply extended wiring that holds everything together and a power delivery mechanism (I think this is true of motherboards as well). While I don't proclaim to be a 'computer engineer', there are open courses on computer architecture and OSes online from MIT and the like. A custom RPI or Apple I would be cool, but these are general purpose platforms that has been explored well. I think an easier and more interesting way for you to get into the foray would be an application of these general platforms. For example, a simple high/middle school project that I've seen with the outreach branch of my school is a RPI based UV-Vis with a simple LED and photoresistor to detect arsenic in water. These platforms are really great for executing novel ideas.

 

I remember the days in high school where kids can go ahead and download schematics online and build them in class with simple components and no microprocessors (we had a project where we built a capacitor based roulette wheel, with no CPU or microcontrollers). However due to the falling price of microcontroller and the availability of stuff like the RPI and Arduino, "cool projects" really only require code and some simple breadboarding.

 

I'd recommend this video as it gave me a good inkling of how a general purpose CPU works.

 

Look up the photolithography process if you want more information on how a CPU is made.

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This doesnt make it look so challenging - 

 

 

You don't think that looks challenging? 

Have you ever touched an 

Oscilloscope?

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