External radiators + winter = condensation?

[HollyBoni]

Hey!

I have 2 Watercool mo-ra 2 external radiators. I was thinking about putting them outside, like Linus did with whole room watercooling. It would be super easy. Since noise wouldn't be a problem I could put massive and super powerful fans on them, but in the winter obviously I wouldn't even need fans. These two radiators can almost handle my system passively (at room temperature). 

My concern is condensation on the CPU and GPU. It gets down to -10-15C maximum in the winter here. Has any of you guys ever tried this? Would condensation really be a problem? Is there a workaround? 

[xgn]

As long as the water flows 24/7 you should be OK.

If it gets down to -20 you should be concerned.

Mayhem premix can handle -1.

[spwath]

condensation could be a problem on tubiung and the waterblocks.

[HollyBoni]

Antifreeze + distilled water, the water freezing is not a problem. I'm already using antifreeze as an anti corrosive in my current loop, although not that much. 

 

I think my only option is to try it out... Not sure if anyone here is running a setup like this. Do you guys think I could notice the condensation on the blocks in time before the water kills anything? 

Trying this out would only mean drilling two holes and buying about 10 meters of tubing, so it's very little work. I could still put the rads outside in the summer, fall and spring when condensation is not a problem. 

[CoolBeans72]

If you want to waste the power by leaving the water on all day then go for it, though you might need to get something for the water. I would try that during the spring and summer though. Just to be on the safe side.

[HollyBoni]

If you want to waste the power by leaving the water on all day then go for it, though you might need to get something for the water. I would try that during the spring and summer though. Just to be on the safe side.

 

How would leaving the pump on all day get rid of the condensation? I'm not worried about the water freezing. That's why antifreeze was invented. 

The CPU and GPU would still be much much hotter than the water, that's why condensation occurs right? 

[spwath]

How would leaving the pump on all day get rid of the condensation? I'm not worried about the water freezing. That's why antifreeze was invented. 

The CPU and GPU would still be much much hotter than the water, that's why condensation occurs right? 

There has to be air for condensation to occur.

 

If there is a cold object in warm, moist air, condesation occurs.

 

So thiswould not happen directlyon the cpu, but it could on the side of the cpu block and the tubing, and it could drip onto the CPU.

 

That all depends on how much heat the CPU/GPU put out.

If they heat the water to at least room temp, then you are fine from condensation.

[CoolBeans72]

Leaving the pump on all day would stop the water from freezing. I don't have any experience from this but i'm just trying to help

[HollyBoni]

Leaving the pump on all day would stop the water from freezing. I don't have any experience from this but i'm just trying to help

 

With antifreeze that's not a problem. The main problem here is condensation. 

 

There has to be air for condensation to occur.

 

If there is a cold object in warm, moist air, condesation occurs.

 

So thiswould not happen directlyon the cpu, but it could on the side of the cpu block and the tubing, and it could drip onto the CPU.

 

That all depends on how much heat the CPU/GPU put out.

If they heat the water to at least room temp, then you are fine from condensation.

 

Yeah I imagine if condensation occurs on the CPU block it dips down to my GPU and motherboard. My GPU is also watercooled.

I think it's pretty much impossible to see condensation on the GPU block, but if I try this out do you think I could notice it on the tubing and the CPU block before anything bad happens? 

 

My CPU and GPU combined consumes about 400-450W of power. Is that enough to heat up the water to room temperature when it's -10C outside? Who knows...

[spwath]

With antifreeze that's not a problem. The main problem here is condensation. 

 

 

Yeah I imagine if condensation occurs on the CPU block it dips down to my GPU and motherboard. My GPU is also watercooled. 

I think it's pretty much impossible to see condensation on the GPU block, but if I try this out do you think I could notice it on the tubing and the CPU block before anything bad happens? 

Possibly.

 

It would occur on the CPU/GPU block before the tubing.

[CoolBeans72]

With antifreeze that's not a problem. The main problem here is condensation. 

 

 

Yeah I imagine if condensation occurs on the CPU block it dips down to my GPU and motherboard. My GPU is also watercooled.

I think it's pretty much impossible to see condensation on the GPU block, but if I try this out do you think I could notice it on the tubing and the CPU block before anything bad happens? 

 

My CPU and GPU combined consumes about 400-450W of power. Is that enough to heat up the water to room temperature when it's -10C outside? Who knows...

Maybe. Again, I would wait until the spring or summer. But that's me.

[HollyBoni]

Did Linus even think about this when building whole room watercooling? 

[CoolBeans72]

Did Linus even think about this when building whole room watercooling? 

Nope i'm pretty sure he didn't care 

[spwath]

Did Linus even think about this when building whole room watercooling? 

THey had antifreeze, but no anti condensation measures

[OddsCrazyStuff]

Mayhems XT-1 http://mayhems.co.uk/mayhems/index.php/products/normal-coolants/mayhems-xt-1

Heat exchanger: http://koolance.com/hxp-135-compact-plate-heat-exchanger

 

Have radiators outside with XT-1 liquid in them, then connect that to the heat exchanger, which are connected with quick disconnect to the pc.

That way so can you unplug the radiators when the pc is not in use, so it dont gets too cold when not in use.

If you have a radiator in the pc as well, then you can have the heat exchanger loop disconnected when idling.

[HollyBoni]

Mayhems XT-1 http://mayhems.co.uk/mayhems/index.php/products/normal-coolants/mayhems-xt-1

Heat exchanger: http://koolance.com/hxp-135-compact-plate-heat-exchanger

 

Have radiators outside with XT-1 liquid in them, then connect that to the heat exchanger, which are connected with quick disconnect to the pc.

That way so can you unplug the radiators when the pc is not in use, so it dont gets too cold when not in use.

If you have a radiator in the pc as well, then you can have the heat exchanger loop disconnected when idling.

Sorry but I don't understand. How is the heat exchanger going to get rid of condensation when it's -10C outside?

And again, the water freezing is not the issue here.

 

Just to be clear this would be the issue:

http://i.imgur.com/l9fVfbu.jpg

[OddsCrazyStuff]

Sorry but I don't understand. How is the heat exchanger going to get rid of condensation when it's -10C outside?

And again, the water freezing is not the issue here.

 

Just to be clear this would be the issue:

http://i.imgur.com/l9fVfbu.jpg

The heat exchanger would allow for the cold to be less effective, as it would be heated up by the room temperature. So most of the condensation should be between it and the wall, and not between it and the pc. If the it works the way I understand it, that is.

[HollyBoni]

Yeah the question is would it be enough? It would have to heat up below 0C water to room temperature... 

 

I think i'm going to wait until it's warm enough outside. Too risky. 

[AnonymousGuy]

Expert here.

 

Never attempt to run your water below the dew point temperature.  If you don't know what the humidity is right now in the room you're in, don't even attempt to go sub-ambient.

 

I would recommend having an intermediate reservoir kept indoors that you can install submersible heaters on should you need to warm the water up above dew point.  Alternatively, plumbing another radiator to the loop indoors can use your ambient air to heat the water up (assuming ambient is warmer than outside).  You can also do a sort of "mixing valve" system where you can adjust how much cold outside water gets mixed in with an inside reservoir.  You would need an extra pump for this setup though.

 

Problem with all of this though is you'll be controlling it manually, which isn't as good as having an autonomous system doing it to make sure the water never goes below dew point.

 

What I did is just set my chiller thermostats to a temperature I know will never be below the dew point in my house.  Humidity never goes above 50% in here and temperature is always 75-77F.

[r4tch3t]

On way you could do it would be have 2 loops.  First loop is the PC with a radiator the second goes to the radiators outside.  Using the heat exchanger you could monitor the temperature of the water in the PC loop and slow down or shut off the pump for the outside loop when the PC loop gets too cold.

[Benji_w]

With antifreeze that's not a problem. The main problem here is condensation. 

 

 

Yeah I imagine if condensation occurs on the CPU block it dips down to my GPU and motherboard. My GPU is also watercooled.

I think it's pretty much impossible to see condensation on the GPU block, but if I try this out do you think I could notice it on the tubing and the CPU block before anything bad happens? 

 

My CPU and GPU combined consumes about 400-450W of power. Is that enough to heat up the water to room temperature when it's -10C outside? Who knows...

 

Actually the amount of anti-freeze has to be at the correct ratio to work well... correctly if it's too weak then the coolant will still freeze, Why are you running anti-freeze anyway? What mixed metals are you running exactly?

 

If it was me, I'd just do it anyway while keeping an eye on things, I plan on running my PC outside when temps drop a bit more while benchmarking.

[HollyBoni]

Expert here.

 

Never attempt to run your water below the dew point temperature.  If you don't know what the humidity is right now in the room you're in, don't even attempt to go sub-ambient.

 

I would recommend having an intermediate reservoir kept indoors that you can install submersible heaters on should you need to warm the water up above dew point.  Alternatively, plumbing another radiator to the loop indoors can use your ambient air to heat the water up (assuming ambient is warmer than outside).  You can also do a sort of "mixing valve" system where you can adjust how much cold outside water gets mixed in with an inside reservoir.  You would need an extra pump for this setup though.

 

Problem with all of this though is you'll be controlling it manually, which isn't as good as having an autonomous system doing it to make sure the water never goes below dew point.

 

What I did is just set my chiller thermostats to a temperature I know will never be below the dew point in my house.  Humidity never goes above 50% in here and temperature is always 75-77F.

 

A thermostat would be the ultimate solution. But still it's a little bit complicated and I didn't want to spend money on this. Right now I get really good temperatures, but it gets super hot in the summer. I think i'm only going to put the rads outside in the summer with fans on them, or when the water can heat up to at least room temperature. A read a little bit about dew point, and now I understand everything. 

Thanks for the help! 

[Lays]

Is your block full cover on the GPU?

 

If it's a universal block, you can simply just insulate around the back of the GPU core, and around the block itself with foam.

Many people run water chillers 24/7 at sub ambient temps, they just use lots of foam & insulation to make sure nothing that can be damaged gets wet.

 

I myself have a 1080mm rad that USED to have a duct attached to it that brought fresh air in from outside, making my temps sub-ambient.  Never had any issues with condensation, although I was only a few C colder than the room temp.  IE: room temp 20c, idle temps ~15c.

[HollyBoni]

Is your block full cover on the GPU?

 

If it's a universal block, you can simply just insulate around the back of the GPU core, and around the block itself with foam.

Many people run water chillers 24/7 at sub ambient temps, they just use lots of foam & insulation to make sure nothing that can be damaged gets wet.

 

I myself have a 1080mm rad that USED to have a duct attached to it that brought fresh air in from outside, making my temps sub-ambient.  Never had any issues with condensation, although I was only a few C colder than the room temp.  IE: room temp 20c, idle temps ~15c.

 

Full cover, and that's what worries me most. I'm not sure if I could insolate the GPU. The CPU would be easy, but even that worries me little bit. 

I'm going to wait until it's spring, get a water temperature sensor, and something I can measure the humidity with.

 

Maybe next year I'll get a thermostat.