Low image quality on newer GPUs

[MEC-777]

10 hours ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Alright, well there you have it, that game's just messed up  (or maybe you have the problem too )

And so does everyone else who's commented on the video.  

 

This is a simple case of "it's just the way the game is". No "GPU's downgrading themselves over time" conspiracy. 

[Dee_tawb]

3 hours ago, MEC-777 said:

And so does everyone else who's commented on the video.  

 

This is a simple case of "it's just the way the game is". No "GPU's downgrading themselves over time" conspiracy. 

I get what you're saying and you might be right.

 

I felt like i was going crazy at first, the feeling that my old 7950 gave a better image quality than the 970 felt wrong. The shimmer on textures and the texture crawl on every single dx game I play makes it very hard to play without being distracted. Can you not see the shadows spazzing out on the rock wall and the artifacting on the tree when i aim at it.

 

I can show you other games if you really want but the youtube compression covers up a lot of the issues. Foliage in CS and AC:BF looks awful for instance, it never looked this bad on my 7950.

 

 

 

 

[vanished]

42 minutes ago, Dee_tawb said:

I get what you're saying and you might be right.

 

I felt like i was going crazy at first, the feeling that my old 7950 gave a better image quality than the 970 felt wrong. The shimmer on textures and the texture crawl on every single dx game I play makes it very hard to play without being distracted. Can you not see the shadows spazzing out on the rock wall and the artifacting on the tree when i aim at it.

 

I can show you other games if you really want but the youtube compression covers up a lot of the issues. Foliage in CS and AC:BF looks awful for instance, it never looked this bad on my 7950.

 

 

 

 

I think what we really need is footage of these messed up games looking good; if someone could provide a clip of that, it would confirm (in my mind at least) that this is an issue specific to a few people (even if it's a lot, ie, just not everyone).  If no one can, we can never really be 100% sure if the game just looks like that, or if it's just that most people have the issue and those who don't haven't found this thread to post in.

[Dee_tawb]

16 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

I think what we really need is footage of these messed up games looking good; if someone could provide a clip of that, it would confirm (in my mind at least) that this is an issue specific to a few people (even if it's a lot, ie, just not everyone).  If no one can, we can never really be 100% sure if the game just looks like that, or if it's just that most people have the issue and those who don't haven't found this thread to post in.

Hopefully my new cooler arrives tomorrow, when I set that up I'll switch in my 7950 and see if I can get some similar footage on that.

[Dee_tawb]

I've got another video of assassins creed: black flag as evidence of the issue. 

You can see at 15 seconds the issues I have with foliage especially. 

[FruitBasketSilex]

FFS. 1,000 replies and there isn't even a confirmed problem.

 

Why the hell hasn't this been locked yet?

[vanished]

1 minute ago, FruitBasketSilex said:

FFS. 1,000 replies and there isn't even a confirmed problem.

 

Why the hell hasn't this been locked yet?

It's an open investigation.  

[FruitBasketSilex]

Just now, Ryan_Vickers said:

It's an open investigation.  

 

Just now, Ryan_Vickers said:

It's an open investigation.  

(Fuck this editor, seriously)

 

It's been an open investigation for over 2 months.

 

That's like saying since I lost my vape "it's an open investigation" if I look for it ever 3 weeks.

 

This has gone from people bitching, to people complaining, to people coming up with conspiracy theories, to people posting normal videos, to discussions about what's broke, what's not.

 

Nothing has happened.

 

If there WAS a problem, after two months, don't you think we'd at least be aware of WHAT exactly we are trying to solve?

 

[vanished]

Just now, FruitBasketSilex said:

 

(Fuck this editor, seriously)

 

It's been an open investigation for over 2 months.

 

That's like saying since I lost my vape "it's an open investigation" if I look for it ever 3 weeks.

 

This has gone from people bitching, to people complaining, to people coming up with conspiracy theories, to people posting normal videos, to discussions about what's broke, what's not.

 

Nothing has happened.

 

If there WAS a problem, after two months, don't you think we'd at least be aware of WHAT exactly we are trying to solve?

 

Well if you don't like it just close your eyes and pretend the thread doesn't exist

 

Actually, I think it started with conspiracy theories, and then went from there, but at this point we've seen a couple people with definitely abnormal graphics that no one knows what to do about, and a lot of other people with games that look like crap but are probably actually normal (but I'm not willing to call it one way or the other yet).

[Dee_tawb]

35 minutes ago, FruitBasketSilex said:

FFS. 1,000 replies and there isn't even a confirmed problem.

 

Why the hell hasn't this been locked yet?

I understand your frustration but you have to understand mine. 

 

I've been struggling with my issue for a couple of months and I was at a loss, not even sure if it was just me that had the issue. Then I find this thread and while there are most likely different issues being discussed here, it feels like maybe I'm not seeing things. The fact that my old 7950 had a better image quality than this 970 makes me angry.

 

I'm desperate maaayn.

 

 

[FruitBasketSilex]

1 hour ago, Dee_tawb said:

I understand your frustration but you have to understand mine. 

 

I've been struggling with my issue for a couple of months and I was at a loss, not even sure if it was just me that had the issue. Then I find this thread and while there are most likely different issues being discussed here, it feels like maybe I'm not seeing things. The fact that my old 7950 had a better image quality than this 970 makes me angry.

 

I'm desperate maaayn.

 

 

1. Remove your current graphics driver and install the most current, use DDU, and verify the settings have defaulted in NVCP.

 

2. Run game, and analyze image quality, it shouldn't be perfect (as we aren't there yet) but a small amount of anomalies are normal. (Little bit of jaggies, little bit of flickering sometimes. Etc) GPUs aren't perfect.

 

3. If 1 failed, download Gparted, boot into it, full wipe the drive, I mean as many passes as you can do across the disk. (If I recall correctly Gparted allows you to do a secure wipe, which whipes the fucking shit out of it)

 

4. Install Windows. Don't download anything expect for your browser, the latest driver, and steam + 1 game (preferably the same game as above for continuity)

 

5. Redo the scene you played earlier for any differences.

 

6. If 3-5 failed, Download (k/x/l)Ubuntu and boot into it after wiping your drive once again. 

 

7. Acquire graphics driver for your device.

 

8. Download steam and 1 game (keep it the same as above for continuity, so make sure the game you choose at the beginning is Linux compatible)

 

9. Re-analyze the scene.

 

10. If 6-8 failed, grab your sisters/dad's/mom's/neighbors/mayor's/dogs laptop or desktop.

 

11. Download steam + 1 game.

 

12. Re-analyze the scene. (All settings should be matched across every single run, or you've effectively thrown the validity of the test out the fucking window.) (FPS won't matter, we're just looking for visual differences)

 

Compare your notes for each run.

Report here with all of your notes and any discrepancies you noticed.

 

There's a twelve step system for you.

 

Edit: made it less of a wall of text.

[MEC-777]

2 hours ago, FruitBasketSilex said:

1. Remove your current graphics driver and install the most current, use DDU, and verify the settings have defaulted in NVCP.

 

2. Run game, and analyze image quality, it shouldn't be perfect (as we aren't there yet) but a small amount of anomalies are normal. (Little bit of jaggies, little bit of flickering sometimes. Etc) GPUs aren't perfect.

 

3. If 1 failed, download Gparted, boot into it, full wipe the drive, I mean as many passes as you can do across the disk. (If I recall correctly Gparted allows you to do a secure wipe, which whipes the fucking shit out of it)

 

4. Install Windows. Don't download anything expect for your browser, the latest driver, and steam + 1 game (preferably the same game as above for continuity)

 

5. Redo the scene you played earlier for any differences.

 

6. If 3-5 failed, Download (k/x/l)Ubuntu and boot into it after wiping your drive once again. 

 

7. Acquire graphics driver for your device.

 

8. Download steam and 1 game (keep it the same as above for continuity, so make sure the game you choose at the beginning is Linux compatible)

 

9. Re-analyze the scene.

 

10. If 6-8 failed, grab your sisters/dad's/mom's/neighbors/mayor's/dogs laptop or desktop.

 

11. Download steam + 1 game.

 

12. Re-analyze the scene. (All settings should be matched across every single run, or you've effectively thrown the validity of the test out the fucking window.) (FPS won't matter, we're just looking for visual differences)

 

Compare your notes for each run.

Report here with all of your notes and any discrepancies you noticed.

 

There's a twelve step system for you.

 

Edit: made it less of a wall of text.

Also, and this is extremely important; make sure you run the game using the EXACT SAME in-game graphics settings (do not touch the NVCP settings). Also, and this is also very important; run the game using a display/monitor with roughly the same size and resolution on all devices to maintain consistent pixel density. Use the same display for all tests, if possible. 

[FruitBasketSilex]

5 minutes ago, MEC-777 said:

Also, and this is extremely important; make sure you run the game using the EXACT SAME in-game graphics settings (do not touch the NVCP settings). Also, and this is also very important; run the game using a display/monitor with roughly the same size and resolution on all devices to maintain consistent pixel density. Use the same display for all tests, if possible. 

Also a very good thing to remember, thank you.

[daraga123]

On 10.03.2016 at 0:03 AM, Dee_tawb said:

I understand your frustration but you have to understand mine. 

 

I've been struggling with my issue for a couple of months and I was at a loss, not even sure if it was just me that had the issue. Then I find this thread and while there are most likely different issues being discussed here, it feels like maybe I'm not seeing things. The fact that my old 7950 had a better image quality than this 970 makes me angry.

 

I'm desperate maaayn.

 

 

So have you done something?

[Monarch]

On 3/10/2016 at 10:22 PM, Dee_tawb said:

I've got another video of assassins creed: black flag as evidence of the issue. 

You can see at 15 seconds the issues I have with foliage especially. 

That's easy. You only have MSAA on which doesn't get rid of all types of aliasing.

 

I don't mean to offend anyone, but all these complaints stem from ignorance and high expectations. I haven't seen a single instance here of an abnormal graphical artifact. 

[Demiqas]

I just picked up a HD 5750 for some 20 bucks to play around with. Apparantly AMD has some newer driver interface. Now you also have the possibility to choose between whether you want 2-4-8x box, narrow or wide tent anti aliasing (in the past you could only box-edgedetect through the control panel). I've noticed that wide tent anti aliasing smoothens the image, very similar to what the supersampling did on my gt 630m, again making the image look a lot better IMO.

[darshan]

did any one try download windows from a different source

maybe your windows installer is infected

[tfw_no_gf]

i actually registered just now because i am having the same issue as the one OP stated, GPU is Sapphire R9 290 Tri-X

temps are not the problem obviously, GPU only reaches mid 60°C while VRM floats around the 70°C mark

my IGP,GTX 670, and 750Ti gives the same problem,, shit sucks. so i know this isnt from the hardware itself

cant really tell if it's a connectivity problem, but i guess that's not it

 

On 3/19/2016 at 2:46 AM, darshan said:

did any one try download windows from a different source

maybe your windows installer is infected

 

I might just do that later if i got the time, if that doesnt work as well i might just have to live with it i suppose.





 

[darshan]

On 3/21/2016 at 5:55 PM, tfw_no_gf said:

i actually registered just now because i am having the same issue as the one OP stated, GPU is Sapphire R9 290 Tri-X

temps are not the problem obviously, GPU only reaches mid 60°C while VRM floats around the 70°C mark

my IGP,GTX 670, and 750Ti gives the same problem,, shit sucks. so i know this isnt from the hardware itself

cant really tell if it's a connectivity problem, but i guess that's not it

 

 

I might just do that later if i got the time, if that doesnt work as well i might just have to live with it i suppose.





 

i have the same issue 

it started after i upgraded my mobo and cpu 15 days ago

before i had intel dh55tc and i3540

now gigabyte h81m-s and i3 4160 cpu

but did not upgrade my gpu i have an        amd r7 265

i installed windows 7 from a disk i got from a friend 

had problems with amd settings so i searched online found out that i did not have sp1 so installed that too

after i installed some games tried to open them but i had some errors with .dill files

installed all the necessary software 

some problems where still there  so i downloaded .dill files from internet and replaced them

 

i start playing gta 5 noticed something wrong with the graphics

a lot of aliasing and shimmering which i did not have 15 days ago before upgrade

i tried 8x msaa it was a little better but before i just used fxaa and it was a lot better than what i have now with 8x msaa

the same happens with alien isolation  and some other games 

 

 

[Demiqas]

Just an update from my side.. I've been using this HD 5750 for a while now and the graphics, using ssaa + widetent look really good now. I'm not sure if it's the newer drivers with the wide tent option or the card making games look better again, but I'm going to guess its the drivers, considering that games without anti aliasing still look like absolute garbage. Atleast SSAA seems to be working properly again.

[daraga123]

So the problem exists,and that was the older drivers or just garbage game engine?...

[darshan]

i found a solution for shimmering 

Open Registry -> 'regedit'

Navigate to :

HLM/System/CurrentControlSet/Control/Video/

Now under Video find the Key that has a '0000' subkey which has a 'umd' subkey.

eg. for my system its:

HLM/System/CurrentControlSet/Control/Video/{62B0C7BD-B807-45BE-8AAC-3176AB0DBF51}/0000/umd

Under 'UMD':

Create a String Named 'LodAdj' and assign value between -5 (Crisp Detail) to 5 (Faded Detail) .

 

this will work in ALL direct3D 9 and OpenGL based games

this method will not work on d3d 10 and d3d11 

 

Direct3d 10 and higher give the application developer complete control over the texture mapping process. If the developer chooses to use mipmaps they can adjust the LOD bias themselves but the driver cannot. This means the LOD bias option in applications like nvidia inspector and nhancer will only work d3d9 and earlier.

[vanished]

4 hours ago, darshan said:

*snip*

I haven't tested this yet, but if all of that is in fact correct, your one post may have summarized, explained, and solved all* of the issues this thread has brought up until now:

• It would explain why older games looked better; they had an LOD control option that people could set to be softer
  • It would also explain how to adjust this if desired
• It would explain why newer games seem to have these jagged edges that nothing seems to be able to fix; it's controlled by the developers, and we all know how good they are at actually delivering what people want
• It would put to rest the question about if this "is normal"; it suggests that it is in fact normal: developers are just picking stupid settings and creating permanently aliased edges as a result, and there's nothing we can do about it.

*I throw in this asterisk because there were some issues brought up that were (afaik) unexplainable and unique to the people having them, namely the shadow issues and the render distance issues, but this thread was initially about the failure of modern cards to anti-alias properly and remained primarily focused on that issue, and - like I said - if you're right about what you've got there, this puts it to bed once and for all imo.

 

Of course, the next course of action would be for people to test this.  We should be able to confirm or deny fairly easily whether this trick works for DX9 games.  It should also be fairly easy to prove that it does not work for newer games.  Unfortunately I don't think there's anything we can do to prove that there is not some equivalent solutions for modern titles, short of speaking with a developer about this issue, but this is a good bit of information nevertheless.

[MEC-777]

We actually already knew this. LOD adjustment was lost after DX9. There is simply no way to adjust it manually in anything DX10 or later. 

[vanished]

3 hours ago, MEC-777 said:

We actually already knew this. LOD adjustment was lost after DX9. There is simply no way to adjust it manually in anything DX10 or later. 

Well I guess yeah I've seen it mentioned or alluded to before, but I guess this pushed it over the edge in terms of having seen theories suggesting it enough times to accept it as fact