Seeking camera for studio-setting, classical guitar performance videos

[jpguitar]

Hey everyone,

 

I'm looking to invest in a new camera for future guitar performance clips. It will just be me in a room playing guitar... nothing too fancy.  I'm currently using a camcorder (Canon Vixia HG20), but it doesn't quite capture the "film" look I'm going for.

Here are as many details as I can think of to help with suggestions:

 

-Looking for a camera that plays to the strength of filming a narrative. It will just be me in a room playing guitar. So, it can be carefully shot & lit. Basically, this will NOT be "run and gun" style. Camera will be still.

 

-I'm looking for more of a "film" look, so would shoot in 24fps (I may be wrong on this?).

 

-The camera does not need great on-board audio. I'll only use the video from the camera. Audio from each shoot will be recorded onto Logic during the video shoot.

 

-For a "film" look, does it make more sense to go DSLR? Mirrorless? Camcorder? I know this is a loaded question.

 

-I've read great things about the Sony a6000. Seems to be an excellent bang-for-the-buck performer & very accessible as well (the latter is huge for me). If anyone's familiar, do you think this would be sufficient for my needs?

 

-If budget allows, will get 2 of the same camera for multi-angle shoots (this also makes something like the Sony a6000 more appealing).

 

-If a camera doesn't perform well in low light, that may not be a big deal, because I'll have a lighting kit. Not sure if this is worth mentioning, but still.

 

That's as much as I can think of for now. If it helps, I can list my youtube channel to say what I've been working with, but I'm not sure if that's against the forum rules or not.  Anyways, thanks in advance for any input whatsoever!

[bob345]

 

Hey everyone,

 

I'm looking to invest in a new camera for future guitar performance clips. It will just be me in a room playing guitar... nothing too fancy.  I'm currently using a camcorder (Canon Vixia HG20), but it doesn't quite capture the "film" look I'm going for.

Here are as many details as I can think of to help with suggestions:

 

-Looking for a camera that plays to the strength of filming a narrative. It will just be me in a room playing guitar. So, it can be carefully shot & lit. Basically, this will NOT be "run and gun" style. Camera will be still.

 

-I'm looking for more of a "film" look, so would shoot in 24fps (I may be wrong on this?).

 

-The camera does not need great on-board audio. I'll only use the video from the camera. Audio from each shoot will be recorded onto Logic during the video shoot.

 

-For a "film" look, does it make more sense to go DSLR? Mirrorless? Camcorder? I know this is a loaded question.

 

-I've read great things about the Sony a6000. Seems to be an excellent bang-for-the-buck performer & very accessible as well (the latter is huge for me). If anyone's familiar, do you think this would be sufficient for my needs?

 

-If budget allows, will get 2 of the same camera for multi-angle shoots (this also makes something like the Sony a6000 more appealing).

 

-If a camera doesn't perform well in low light, that may not be a big deal, because I'll have a lighting kit. Not sure if this is worth mentioning, but still.

 

That's as much as I can think of for now. If it helps, I can list my youtube channel to say what I've been working with, but I'm not sure if that's against the forum rules or not.  Anyways, thanks in advance for any input whatsoever!

 

What kind of budget are you looking at? The a6000 definitely is a good option if your on a budget. What kind of shots are you looking to get as that is something to consider when choosing lenses to go with the cameras. As for the "film look" most if not all of that is done in post processing. One big thing that can give a video a bit more of a cinema look is a 2.35:1 aspect ratio. That gives that cinematic wide screen look. Here is a little example i found of how a 2.35:1 crop can change the feel of a video.

 

[Dredgy]

@jpguitar Totally depends on your budget. You can achieve "cinematic" looks with DSLRs, Mirrorless and most modern phones if you're up for it.

For your particular situation, I recommend either the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera (or Micro Cinema Camera, but that's not out yet and will need a screen) or the full size cinema camera.

 

While both have many significant drawbacks, if you already have an external audio recorder and lighting, the image coming out of them (especially in RAW) will be second to none. The full size cinema camera with it's 2.5K sensor will allow you to crop to cinemascope and still have good framing.

[ShadowCaptain]

 

Hey everyone,

 

BMPCC maybe? (blackmagic pocket cinema camera) has a great filmic look and grades really nicely

[ALwin]

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All good suggestions here, for the look you want all large sensor cameras (I mean cameras with sensors larger than camcorders, like APS-C or Full Frame, perhaps even Micro 4/3s) will be able to provide that shallow DOF look that is popular in cinematography.

 

I wouldn't normally recommend a BMPCC, because you can achieve a cinematic "look and feel" to your final video with post production and having a BMPCC is not a requirement.  It's mainly about how you edit. Also don't sell or throw away your camcorder, you can use it as a third camera.  Perhaps if you get (for example) 2x A6000s they can be on a fixed position while you have a friend using the camcorder from different angles, moving around, etc.  And the camcorder has a smaller sensor, hence larger DOF, which can also be useful.  You don't necessarily need the entire length of the video to be shot with a very shallow DOF.

 

Additionally, lights will be a good investment.  Additionally light modifiers such as softboxes, reflectors, snoots.

 

But more so than lights will be your "scene" setup, like instead of recording it in your living room with all the furniture or garage with all the "junk" perhaps do a chroma background setup, or something else (I can't suggest everything, you will have to figure some things out yourself).  Essentially what I mean is, when you record the video make sure that the viewer is always focused on you or your guitar, and that they do not get distracted by any "distraction" that appears in the background.  And if you need props, make sure they are appropriate props.

 

Now, make sure you are able to record clean audio also.  How many microphones do you have?  If you have two, it would be great as you can set them up for proper stereo.

http://music.tutsplus.com/tutorials/6-stereo-miking-techniques-you-can-use-today--audio-204

[ShadowCaptain]

I wouldn't normally recommend a BMPCC, because you can achieve a cinematic "look and feel" to your final video with post production and having a BMPCC is not a requirement.  It's mainly about how you edit. 

 

Nomrally I wouldnt either, but it makes sense in a pretty much studio environment like here

 

it has 13 stops of DR shoots CinemaDNG Raw and Proress 422 - so its SUPER amazing for grading, can run off DC and has really nice controls for filming

But yes A6000 would be my other recommendation, and it takes VERY nice footage too,

 

 

EDIT: also the GH4 or G7 are amazing cameras for video too! 

 

For any MFT camera you need GOOD lighting, so invest in lights lights lights and more lights

[ALwin]

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Another reason I would be hesitant to recommend the BMPCC would be due to price.  2x BMPCC is about $2000 without the lens.  While 2x A6000 with kit lens is about $1300.

 

But everything else you said about the BMPCC, or almost any Black Magic camera is valid and I agree.

 

FYI, Black Magic is delaying over and over again with their new camera releases, I wouldn't consider a Black Magic camera (especially the newer models) if my needs were urgent.  I haven't seen anyone claiming on the web having received an Ursa Mini 4K that they ordered.

[Dredgy]

FYI, Black Magic is delaying over and over again with their new camera releases, I wouldn't consider a Black Magic camera (especially the newer models) if my needs were urgent.  I haven't seen anyone claiming on the web having received an Ursa Mini 4K that they ordered.

 

 

It's pretty nightmarish. But Micro Studio Cameras have started to be received, and that's the product I'm most interested in!

[Dw136]

A lot of people think the "filmic" look is down to the camera and they're right in certain aspects but will often neglect to tell you what it truly takes to get that look. 

 

1. A larger sensor will give you shallower depth of field which some consider to be 'filmic'

2. Fast lenses again will give you shallower depth of field, but will also allow you to isolate your subjects or include the background depending on the focal length. 

3. LIGHTING!!! Hard lights, soft light, kickers and fills. Lighting is an art and key to the 'filmic' look. How do the shadows fall across your subject? Separation from the back ground uisng lights.

4. Camera movement. Static cameras work but movement is nice and add production value

5. Sound is another, you have to make sure your sound is perfectly synced and crystal clear. A lot of people don't realize how important sound is to the filmic look, your brain will use both audio and video signals to process the image.

6. Editing style, quick cuts vs slow transitions vs audio leads/falls it all adds up to your 'look', the scope you choose (16x9 vs 2.35:1), how you colour grade the footage, etc etc etc 

 

There are a million other tiny things which you need to do to achieve the look. People will spend years creating their 'look'. No camera will give you an amazing look right out of the camera. You have to work at it. 

[jpguitar]

This is great input - Thank you so much!   You can tell I'm no aficionado when it comes to this stuff.  

 

The space itself is an 8x12 bedroom w/plain white walls & oak wood floors.  Again, not sure if any of these details matter.  

 

Budget-wise (and perhaps this is another topic all-together), I'm trying to keep the combined cost of lighting & camera around $1,000.  However, I am open to learning more about decent options for different budget tiers.  There have already been some great ones presented in this thread. 

 

I know I stressed the "film" look, but what I really am going for is something that outclasses most of my competition.  I perform 50-60 weddings a year and am aiming to vamp up the production side of my promotional materials, to more accurately capture a "premium" look & feel.  Perception is reality, right?  It can be hard to charge a certain amount if your videos aren't up to snuff.  Most musicians record rather crude promo video clips (shaky cell-phone quality) on their electronic press kits for clients to find, so no matter how great the performance is, it can still send the wrong message...the wrong "Mission statement", so to speak, and not accurately capture their value proposition.

 

For sound, my guitar will be recorded with a pair of SM81s.  I have a PreSonus Firestudio Project firewire interface going into my Macbook Pro into Logic.  I mix the sound in there & splice w/the video.

 

Aspect ratio has been mentioned a couple times & is not something I ever thought about until seeing it in this thread.  It appears that iMovie 10.0.6 doesn't allow me to edit that, so maybe it's time to move on to Final Cut?

 

Thanks again & I'll continue to monitor this thread.  So grateful for the kindness & information!

[ALwin]

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I understand what you are trying to do and I agree, client perception is important. It doesn't matter how good your skills are, potential clients will judge you by your cover if they don't have friends or people they know telling them to hire you due to positive past experience.

 

Have you considered hiring someone to create/record/produce this video for you?

[jpguitar]

I understand what you are trying to do and I agree, client perception is important. It doesn't matter how good your skills are, potential clients will judge you by your cover if they don't have friends or people they know telling them to hire you due to positive past experience.

 

Have you considered hiring someone to create/record/produce this video for you?

 

Exactly!

 

I did hire someone to do a professionally made promo video that is now on my home site & all my press kits, but this is for all future performance videos going forward.  I am moving into a new house soon and one room is entirely dedicated to media content creation.  So, it is in my best interest for this to be DYI as much as possible.  I want to produce hundreds of performance videos over the next few years.

 

It's a tricky situation, in that it would make sense in the long-term to extend my budget.  However, in the wedding business we're coming up to "engagement season", as most of our inquiries for summer 2016 weddings will come over the holidays (Christmas through Valentine's Day - lots of marriage proposals happening then!).  So, there's a sense of urgency that's conflicting with my current budget limitation.  Hmmmm.....

[ALwin]

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If you are budget constrained, don't buy two cameras yet.  Either rent video equipment for the time being or invest in ONE good camera and accessories.

 

With one camera you will be able to create promotional videos, you just have to record multiple takes with the camera in different angles/positions and mix+match in post production.  Let's not forget that your Canon camcorder can act as a second camera.

[Dw136]

You mentioned a budget of 1k.

For that I would stick with the a6000 or even the a5000 since you are recording audio separately.

I would pick up some cheap Canon FD or Nikon AI/AI-S or even older m42 glass to pair with it. You probably want your standard 24, 35, 50, and 85 mm + a macro lens. But the 24 and 50 is a good start.

Lights would be your biggest priority at the moment.I'd recommend looking into Yongnuo LED lights. They're pretty good price/performance.

More importantly however it's just practice. When you first start, your videos won't look the way you want right out of the gate. You got to just continue and work at it, find tutorials online or pay a buddy who knows videography in free food and drinks to learn.

[Dw136]

Sorry was on mobile double post. Dunno how to delete this...

[jpguitar]

You mentioned a budget of 1k.

For that I would stick with the a6000 or even the a5000 since you are recording audio separately.

I would pick up some cheap Canon FD or Nikon AI/AI-S or even older m42 glass to pair with it. You probably want your standard 24, 35, 50, and 85 mm + a macro lens. But the 24 and 50 is a good start.

Lights would be your biggest priority at the moment.I'd recommend looking into Yongnuo LED lights. They're pretty good price/performance.

More importantly however it's just practice. When you first start, your videos won't look the way you want right out of the gate. You got to just continue and work at it, find tutorials online or pay a buddy who knows videography in free food and drinks to learn.

 

Awesome, thanks man!  Is there a particular Yongnuo kit you'd recommend?  The space is an 8x12 bedroom.

 

@ALwin  Good call - I keep forgetting that the Vixia HG20 can still be useful as a 2nd camera.

[ALwin]

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For general purpose LED panels, something like this is a good on-camera option

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1114778-REG/aputure_amaran_al_h160_160_bulb_on_camera.html

 

I would also suggest some spot type of lights, perhaps something like this

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/241590-REG/Smith_Victor_701610_SM_410_100_Watt_AC.html

 

Panel types of lights are mainly used to flood the scene, while spot types of lights (including with the use of light modifiers) are better at controlling where and how you want the light to fall on the scene.

 

Perhaps you want this type of illumination in your video

 

which is not something you can easily achieve with panel lights

[jpguitar]

For general purpose LED panels, something like this is a good on-camera option

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1114778-REG/aputure_amaran_al_h160_160_bulb_on_camera.html

 

I would also suggest some spot type of lights, perhaps something like this

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/241590-REG/Smith_Victor_701610_SM_410_100_Watt_AC.html

 

Panel types of lights are mainly used to flood the scene, while spot types of lights (including with the use of light modifiers) are better at controlling where and how you want the light to fall on the scene.

 

Perhaps you want this type of illumination in your video

 

which is not something you can easily achieve with panel lights

 

 

Seriously can't thank you all enough for the help.  Are there particular lighting kits you might recommend in the $200-$300 range?  I think the on-camera light is a smart idea for possible live performance usage, where I won't have any control of the room lighting.

[jpguitar]

Hey all,

 

I've decided against the a6000 b/c I want a rotating screen & more external mic support (mostly for video capture of some of my live performances).   In another thread, a user posted this Best Buy Black Friday ad:  Canon - EOS Rebel T5i DSLR Camera with 18-55mm IS and 55-250mm IS Lenses - Black for $699.  I was pondering whether or not that'd be a good purchase for me, my usage is purely video (mostly filming a narrative and capturing a few live gig clips).

 

I'm a novice, so I didn't know if the T5i is a would be overkill, or if I'd need the different set of lenses.

 

Thanks again,

Jim

[ALwin]

Hey all,

 

I've decided against the a6000 b/c I want a rotating screen & more external mic support (mostly for video capture of some of my live performances).   In another thread, a user posted this Best Buy Black Friday ad:  Canon - EOS Rebel T5i DSLR Camera with 18-55mm IS and 55-250mm IS Lenses - Black for $699.  I was pondering whether or not that'd be a good purchase for me, my usage is purely video (mostly filming a narrative and capturing a few live gig clips).

 

I'm a novice, so I didn't know if the T5i is a would be overkill, or if I'd need the different set of lenses.

 

Thanks again,

Jim

 

For the moment those two lenses should be enough to start you off, if you decide to get that kit.

[jpguitar]

For the moment those two lenses should be enough to start you off, if you decide to get that kit.

 

 

Thanks man, much appreciated.  I've been reading your posts on this forum (especially the DSLR or Video Camera Guide) and have been learning a lot.  Thanks again!

[ShadowCaptain]

Hey all,

 

I've decided against the a6000 b/c I want a rotating screen & more external mic support (mostly for video capture of some of my live performances).   

 

If you are recording audio, I would STRONGLY advise against using the microphone port on the camera body, even a cheapo zoom h1 will capture better audio from an external mic than the in body one

[ALwin]

If you are recording audio, I would STRONGLY advise against using the microphone port on the camera body, even a cheapo zoom h1 will capture better audio from an external mic than the in body one

 

I'd assume that as the OP is a musician (judging by the profile pic), would already own some nice audio recording gear.  But if that's not the case, personally I would recommend investing in some nice mics and a very good field audio recorder or preamp.

 

I'm looking into investing in some more mics for the various setups shown here, next year I am in line to do some filming/documenting of traditional arts/music performances.

http://en.wikiaudio.org/Recording_techniques:Drum_kit

[ShadowCaptain]

I'd assume that as the OP is a musician (judging by the profile pic), would already own some nice audio recording gear.  But if that's not the case, personally I would recommend investing in some nice mics and a very good field audio recorder or preamp.

 

 

I hope so and I agree!  even if its just like a rode ntg2 and zoom h5 or something simples, 

[ALwin]

I hope so and I agree!  even if its just like a rode ntg2 and zoom h5 or something simples, 

 

LOL I forgot the OP did mention he was a musician, performs at weddings.