2 systems 1 loop, Any tips and tricks?

[QBtech]

He guys,

 

Just a couple of weeks ago I made a custom desk PC with a custom over the top loop. I have two 360 rads cooling a 4790 (non K) and a single 290x. As I am looking for a new project and have some space left I was thinking of throwing my (mostly data)Server in the same custom case and adding it to the loop. The problem that arises is that the systems aren't always on at the same time at that on the moment I have only one D5 running the loop.

 

For all clarity, I have no interest in making two loops.

 

I have thought about several different options to solve this problem:

 

    1)  Run one pump and find a way to switch between PSU power seamlessly

 

    2)  Run one pump 24/7 on a separate PSU

 

 X   3) Run two pumps in series, But will this harm the pump that is not running at that time?

 

 X   4) Run two pumps parallel both directly after the res and then using an Y fittings the bring the streams together.

 

 

Do any of you have experience with any of this? Any pointers?

 

The reason I do not want separate loops is that I like the fact my fans can run as slowly as they do. The CPU from the server (G3258) should only raise temps by a few degrees if added to the loop.

[GzeroD]

You could run an AC pump and have it powered directly off what ever power strip or other power delivery system your using too power the other computers. That way if the computers have power the pump is running. if you want the pump to be able to be turned off when Both Pc's are off you can use relays that power on with the PC's and just have parrelle power connections to the pump(it will be fine as long as there is only 1 power phase being used by both inputs).

[QBtech]

You could run an AC pump and have it powered directly off what ever power strip or other power delivery system your using too power the other computers. That way if the computers have power the pump is running. if you want the pump to be able to be turned off when Both Pc's are off you can use relays that power on with the PC's and just have parrelle power connections to the pump(it will be fine as long as there is only 1 power phase being used by both inputs).

 

Although that would probably be the best option, I would like to keep using my D5 regardless of what I decide to do, but how would I implement the same thing without buying a new AC pump?

[TheKDub]

I'd use one pump in each rig, and do a sort of thing with quick disconnects like linus did, that way if you need to separate them for some reason, you can just pop them apart and clip the disconnects together to make two separate loops.

 

And also have two reservoirs, radiators, etc..

[Enderman]

1) that could work

 

2) that would definitely work

 

3) thats not a good idea

 

4) that would just create a loop flowing back through the second pump

[Mr.Tech.Qc]

1) that could work

 

2) that would definitely work

 

3) thats not a good idea

 

4) that would just create a loop flowing back through the second pump

lol that resumes my thoughts 

[Enderman]

lol that resumes my thoughts 

yup option 1 is the best if you can figure out how to do the switching

[GzeroD]

Although that would probably be the best option, I would like to keep using my D5 regardless of what I decide to do, but how would I implement the same thing without buying a new AC pump?

Effectively the same thing could be done With your D5, You would just need a reliable 12v Power supply that ran independently of the 2 PC's. EZ as pie

[QBtech]

Okay, to summarize

 

Options 3 and 4 are out.

 

Option 2 is easiest and would do the trick, option 1 is a viable option but a bit harder to tackle. Any one know of a 2 molex to 1 molex adapter that will not destroy my pump

 

Another Option:

 

5) At the end of the loop, before going into the res using a Y splitter that feeds into pump #2. Pump #2 leads to cpu of server and then delivers the flow back into the original loop after pump #1. Would that work? and how in gods name would I fill that loop? It is basically the same setup as whole room watercooling just with the same D5 pumps....... Besides the fact the stonger pump was never off that is

[GzeroD]

 

Option 2 is easiest and would do the trick, option 1 is a viable option but a bit harder to tackle. Any one know of a 2 molex to 1 molex adapter that will not destroy my pump

 

 

 

That would very possibly kill your power supplies.

 

Edit: do you have a drawing or layout for the case? how about a plan for cooling tubing runs? If so please share so we can give better feedback.

[QBtech]

That would very possibly kill your power supplies.

 

Edit: do you have a drawing or layout for the case? how about a plan for cooling tubing runs? If so please share so we can give better feedback.

 

Unfortunately I am not home and will not be for the next week or so.  But it is a custom case and believe me dimensions and layout are no limitations. To get what I want to do, I will be just as likely to throw out the current case and start from scratch.

 

The current loop layout is: Res -> Pump -> GPU -> CPU -> rad 1 -> rad2 -> Res

 

The planned run would be Res -> Some kind of Pump Solution -> GPU -> CPU -> CPU from server -> rad 1 -> rad2 -> Res

[brandishwar]

I'm actually working on a rack setup which will have a water cooling loop external to the system that is being cooled. The pump and fans will also be powered separate from the system. You can buy a power brick with a 5A at 12V current that can power your pump and fans -- you'll need a fan hub for that -- without either system being on. That's probably the only approach you can take with this. Any other approach you've considered is just going to complicate things.

[QBtech]

I'm actually working on a rack setup which will have a water cooling loop external to the system that is being cooled. The pump and fans will also be powered separate from the system. You can buy a power brick with a 5A at 12V current that can power your pump and fans -- you'll need a fan hub for that -- without either system being on. That's probably the only approach you can take with this. Any other approach you've considered is just going to complicate things.

 

But but...  I like complicated. Although I do agree. And if I weren't reluctant to run the pump(s) 24/7 I would do that indeed. 

 

Im also not worried about the fans, 2x360 rads are enough to keep my system at 15 degrees delta at idle without turning the fans on. The server throws off less heat so it should be fine. Might switch 1 or 2 fans from the desktop to server but that should be more than enough to keep the server cool under load.

[GzeroD]

But but...  I like complicated. Although I do agree. And if I weren't reluctant to run the pump(s) 24/7 I would do that indeed. 

 

Im also not worried about the fans, 2x360 rads are enough to keep my system at 15 degrees delta at idle without turning the fans on. The server throws off less heat so it should be fine. Might switch 1 or 2 fans from the desktop to server but that should be more than enough to keep the server cool under load.

A power brick like that 3 female molex leads and 1 male molex lead (if your pump/fan controller use molex)  and 2 12v relays with bases/ sockets and some 16-20 AWG wire and you can do what I mentioned in my first post and keep the D5. You will loose software fan control but it will turn off when both systems are off. It wouldn't take more than an hour too put together if your a bit handy.

 

I could detail how they would need too be hooked up too accomplish this if required.

[QBtech]

A power brick like that 3 female molex leads and 1 male molex lead (if your pump/fan controller use molex)  and 2 12v relays with bases/ sockets and some 16-20 AWG wire and you can do what I mentioned in my first post and keep the D5. You will loose software fan control but it will turn off when both systems are off. It wouldn't take more than an hour too put together if your a bit handy.

 

Again, Im not worried about the fans, the server can run on the passive cooling of the 360's

 

But basicly what the relays would do is switch of power from the molex from the 3rd powersupply when neither system 1 or 2 is on? I might look into that.

 

This product should fix my problem:

It splits the power from a powersupply, keeping power on all but the 24pin and 8pin (cpu) when one of the systems is down. Anyone know of a similar product that is in retail currently?

[GzeroD]

 

But basicly what the relays would do is switch of power from the molex from the 3rd powersupply when neither system 1 or 2 is on? I might look into that.

 

Thats is what it would do.

 

For example 

if PC 1 is on and PC 2 is off --> relay 1 is on relay 2 is off --> pump is on

if PC 2 is on and PC 1 is off --> relay 2 is on relay 2 is off --> pump is on

if PC 1&2 are on ---> Relay 1 & 2 are on ---> pump is on

If PC 1&2 are off ---> Relay 1 & 2 are off ---> pump is off

 

I can draw a crude diagram in paint if it would help you see how it would work.

[GzeroD]

By The Power of MS Paint!

 

 

 

Red lines are positive power 

Black are negative connections

 

N/O contacts mean the connection is normally open so when their is no power too the relay there will be no power flow  between the relay contacts. most relays should have a N/O and a N/C contact but some will be only N/O or N/C I can tell you which is which if you tell me what relay your looking to get. (relays are cheap (often less than $5 or $6 with a base for mounting and connections)) The common contact connects to bothe the N/O and N/C contacts and is where the input from the switched Power source goes.

 

If you go this route I can give more effective/accurate instructions when you decide what parts you want too use as well as how you plan to mount them.

 

Edit: Updated The awesome paint graphic to comply with the much more common 5 pin relays

[QBtech]

By The Power of MS Paint!

 

 

 

Red lines are positive power 

Black are negative connections

 

N/O contacts mean the connection is normally open so when their is no power too the relay there will be no power flow  between the relay contacts. most relays should have a N/O and a N/C contact but some will be only N/O or N/C I can tell you which is which if you tell me what relay your looking to get. (relays are cheap (often less than $5 or $6 with a base for mounting and connections)) The common contact connects to bothe the N/O and N/C contacts and is where the input from the switched Power source goes.

 

If you go this route I can give more effective/accurate instructions when you decide what parts you want too use as well as how you plan to mount them.

 

Edit: Updated The awesome paint graphic to comply with the much more common 5 pin relays

Thanks GzeroD!!!

 

I have a thought of a way to do it with 1 relay and two psus though

 

 

I have left out most of the grounds but you catch my drift I think. Is there anything I should know for mounting a relay?

[Yeater]

i think nr 3. wouldnt even be that stupid

[QBtech]

i think nr 3. wouldnt even be that stupid

I agree. The idea comes from the thousands of setups that use two pumps in series for redundancy. However in that case if a pump is off it is broken already. Running such a setup would potentially be quite harmful for the pumps.

[Yeater]

I agree. The idea comes from the thousands of setups that use two pumps in series for redundancy. However in that case if a pump is off it is broken already. Running such a setup would potentially be quite harmful for the pumps.

would it really be harmfull aslong as there is water in the pump

[QBtech]

would it really be harmfull aslong as there is water in the pump

As I see it the internal workings of a pump are quite similar to how a fan works. So running two pumps in series with one of the pumps off, would be like blowing/sucking air through a fan, which make the fans spin. As we all know doing such a thing will drastically hurt the lifetime of a fan. Ergo doing the same thing to a pump will drastically hurt the lifetime of the pump. In redundancy cases this does not matter as the pump would be dead for this to happen.

 

However I might be wrong but I have not found any documentation on the matter. (AKA nobody has been mad enough to test it)

[GzeroD]

Thanks GzeroD!!!

 

I have a thought of a way to do it with 1 relay and two psus though

 

 

I have left out most of the grounds but you catch my drift I think. Is there anything I should know for mounting a relay?

 

yah the first one I made used a 4 pin N/O relays; didn't even think to change the layout when I changed the relays to 5 pin, Less points of failure and simpler very nice.

 

There shouldn't be any special  requirements for mounting a relay. if its mechanical make sure its secured, and if its solid state just make sure you have some air flow over it as they can heat up a touch in un-ventilated spaces but are extremely reliable.

[EmeraldFlame]

1)  Run one pump and find a way to switch between PSU power seamlessly

 

How much experience do you have with electrical work? You should be able to set up a basic circuit to switch back and forth with just a single transistor really, you would just need a bit of technical knowledge on how to wire things up properly.