What speakers for $2,000?

[Stagea]

I have to get an AVR with something like Audyssey, correct? I'm a little partial to Yamaha for no good reason. I'm not sure which one of their AVRs support EQ, but I'm pretty sure Yamaha doesn't use Audyssey. I don't think YPAO does room EQ... just small calibrations (large/small speaker, distance, etc.)

 

I'm not planning to purchase a new AVR for another year or so. I have to let the AVR world recuperate a bit before dropping $1,000+ on a new AVR (thanks to Atmos, DTSx, HDCP 2.2, HDMI 2.0)

 

There are a lot of equalization systems out there, not just Audyssey (though Audyssey is probably the most popular). 

 

YPAO does equalization, but the lower variants do not have EQ bands that cover the most important part of room equalization (the PEQ only EQs down to 63 Hz, so typical room modes may not be covered). Higher variants like the RX-A3050 cover a wider range of frequencies and can do effective room equalization.

 

If you like the Yamaha character, you may try out Marantz as well (I find them quite similar, even though Marantz is a D&M brand).

[johnt]

There are a lot of equalization systems out there, not just Audyssey (though Audyssey is probably the most popular). 

 

YPAO does equalization, but the lower variants do not have EQ bands that cover the most important part of room equalization (the PEQ only EQs down to 63 Hz, so typical room modes may not be covered). Higher variants like the RX-A3050 cover a wider range of frequencies and can do effective room equalization.

 

If you like the Yamaha character, you may try out Marantz as well (I find them quite similar, even though Marantz is a D&M brand).

 

My round earth roots are beginning to show  I may consider picking up a projector and a more expensive receiver in the future. Although recently, pre-amp and amplifier separates have been catching my attention.......... But I'm not sure if I really need anything with a bigger juice box. Maybe I just need to be content with what I've got. I would still like to keep my wife! haha

[johnt]

I hosted a movie night on Saturday. We watched Jurassic Park remastered on blu-ray, and the noise was absolutely insane. We must have been watching between 100+ dB for half the movie. I was just afraid with an evil grin on my face   I implemented the "thumbs up for louder/thumbs down for lower," and a sissy seat all the way in the back of the room in case anyone really couldn't handle it anymore. One smart person gave me a thumbs down and I was relieved I didn't have to pull rank so my neighbors wouldn't complain!

 

Three things were very apparent

1. My $250 Yamaha receiver can easily power such efficient speakers. Volume was around -15 dB and not a hint of audible distortion. Of course it is an older movie, so the audio track does have its limits. It has been remastered very well, however. I haven't had a chance to play around with any calibration stuff at all. 
2. Klipsch must use a different scale for measuring speaker efficiency than PSA because my center and rears were occasionally drowned out by the PSA mains. The interesting part is that my mains and center are both rated 98 dB efficient. Or PSA is simply understating the actual efficiency of their speakers.
3. The V3600i subs are absolute monsters with nearly endless headroom. 

My wife and I also rented the latest Mad Max. The track was extremely amplified and synthetic compared to Jurassic Park. Mad Max is a great test movie. There is plenty of action. However, the movie itself was pretty awful. But still great for testing surround sound.

[spwath]

I hosted a movie night on Saturday. We watched Jurassic Park remastered on blu-ray, and the noise was absolutely insane. We must have been watching between 100+ dB for half the movie. I was just afraid with an evil grin on my face I implemented the "thumbs up for louder/thumbs down for lower," and a sissy seat all the way in the back of the room in case anyone really couldn't handle it anymore. One smart person gave me a thumbs down and I was relieved I didn't have to pull rank so my neighbors wouldn't complain!

Three things were very apparent

• My $250 Yamaha receiver can easily power such efficient speakers. Volume was around -15 dB and not a hint of audible distortion. Of course it is an older movie, so the audio track does have its limits. It has been remastered very well, however. I haven't had a chance to play around with any calibration stuff at all.
• Klipsch must use a different scale for measuring speaker efficiency than PSA because my center and rears were occasionally drowned out by the PSA mains. The interesting part is that my mains and center are both rated 98 dB efficient. Or PSA is simply understating the actual efficiency of their speakers.
• The V3600i subs are absolute monsters with nearly endless headroom.

My wife and I also rented the latest Mad Max. The track was extremely amplified and synthetic compared to Jurassic Park. Mad Max is a great test movie. There is plenty of action. However, the movie itself was pretty awful. But still great for testing surround sound.

Yeah I still have yet to watch a movie with my surround system, mainly because it's at my PC.

So if I want to use the TV, I'm stuck with a low quality vizio sound bar (with wireless rears and wireless sub)

[Stagea]

I hosted a movie night on Saturday. We watched Jurassic Park remastered on blu-ray, and the noise was absolutely insane. We must have been watching between 100+ dB for half the movie. I was just afraid with an evil grin on my face   I implemented the "thumbs up for louder/thumbs down for lower," and a sissy seat all the way in the back of the room in case anyone really couldn't handle it anymore. One smart person gave me a thumbs down and I was relieved I didn't have to pull rank so my neighbors wouldn't complain!

 

Three things were very apparent

1. My $250 Yamaha receiver can easily power such efficient speakers. Volume was around -15 dB and not a hint of audible distortion. Of course it is an older movie, so the audio track does have its limits. It has been remastered very well, however. I haven't had a chance to play around with any calibration stuff at all. 
2. Klipsch must use a different scale for measuring speaker efficiency than PSA because my center and rears were occasionally drowned out by the PSA mains. The interesting part is that my mains and center are both rated 98 dB efficient. Or PSA is simply understating the actual efficiency of their speakers.
3. The V3600i subs are absolute monsters with nearly endless headroom. 

My wife and I also rented the latest Mad Max. The track was extremely amplified and synthetic compared to Jurassic Park. Mad Max is a great test movie. There is plenty of action. However, the movie itself was pretty awful. But still great for testing surround sound.

 

Speaker makers measure speakers in different ways, so the numbers are not comparable between brands (and sometimes even between models under the same brand, as entry level units are sometimes measured differently to make them look better)). Klipsch flaunts numbers based on in-room measurements, and a single frequency test tone for sensitivity. This gives them a numerically wider frequency response and can result in fairly inflated sensitivity numbers compared to many other makers. I have a few other brands in mind that do the same thing, but I'd rather not burst some bubbles unnecessarily.

 

I suggest you recalibrate to get the gain and filters adjusted for your new speakers. That way, your speakers get to match fairly closely (allowing you to enjoy a closer to correct surround experience) and you can just dial the volume knob to 0dB for reference level playback.

[Stagea]

My round earth roots are beginning to show  I may consider picking up a projector and a more expensive receiver in the future. Although recently, pre-amp and amplifier separates have been catching my attention.......... But I'm not sure if I really need anything with a bigger juice box. Maybe I just need to be content with what I've got. I would still like to keep my wife! haha

 

A large screen definitely makes a huge difference. What projector are you looking at getting? Aside from projector selection, screen selection is just as important. 

 

Aside from limiting light penetration into the room, a dark colored room will do a lot better with a projector than a light colored room. A light colored room bounces light off from the projector screen back into the screen, which causes contrast to suffer significantly as the dark portions get noticeably lit up by the reflected light (especially visible when displaying bright scenes and/or scenes with both bright and dark elements). Even projectors with the best black levels won't do so well in a light-colored room.

[johnt]

Speaker makers measure speakers in different ways, so the numbers are not comparable between brands (and sometimes even between models under the same brand, as entry level units are sometimes measured differently to make them look better)). Klipsch flaunts numbers based on in-room measurements, and a single frequency test tone for sensitivity. This gives them a numerically wider frequency response and can result in fairly inflated sensitivity numbers compared to many other makers. I have a few other brands in mind that do the same thing, but I'd rather not burst some bubbles unnecessarily.

 

I suggest you recalibrate to get the gain and filters adjusted for your new speakers. That way, your speakers get to match fairly closely (allowing you to enjoy a closer to correct surround experience) and you can just dial the volume knob to 0dB for reference level playback.

 

This calibration stuff always confuses me a little bit.

 

Does the receiver automatically set anything internally during automated calibration (ypao) that I won't be able to modify afterwards back to default? In other words... after calibration, if I go through and turn everything back to their default values (speaker distances, sizes, gains, phases, limited EQs), is there anything else internally that will be permanently modified by the automated calibration?

 

I don't want to jack up the receiver.

[johnt]

Yeah I still have yet to watch a movie with my surround system, mainly because it's at my PC.

So if I want to use the TV, I'm stuck with a low quality vizio sound bar (with wireless rears and wireless sub)

 

So temporarily move your surround sound out to the living room for a movie night, and then move it back.

[spwath]

So temporarily move your surround sound out to the living room for a movie night, and then move it back.

That would be rather difficult, and I dont have enough wire

[Stagea]

This calibration stuff always confuses me a little bit.

Does the receiver automatically set anything internally during automated calibration (ypao) that I won't be able to modify afterwards back to default? In other words... after calibration, if I go through and turn everything back to their default values (speaker distances, sizes, gains, phases, limited EQs), is there anything else internally that will be permanently modified by the automated calibration?

I don't want to jack up the receiver.

For Yamahas, you can still alter the time alignment and channel intensity after calibration. The manual PEQ/GEQ is normally different from the YPAO PEQ, however. You can always disable the YPAO PEQ and revert to the manual EQ if you prefer.

[johnt]

That would be rather difficult, and I dont have enough wire

 

How do you not have enough wire? I thought you bought 100 feet?

[johnt]

For Yamahas, you can still alter the time alignment and channel intensity after calibration. The manual PEQ/GEQ is normally different from the YPAO PEQ, however. You can always disable the YPAO PEQ and revert to the manual EQ if you prefer.

 

Seems I have one more thing to play around with. My time seems limited these days... maybe on the weekend. I feel another movie night coming on! 

[spwath]

How do you not have enough wire? I thought you bought 100 feet?

It's in use, some of it, I'm not sure I would have enough for the living room.

What I might do, is keep my old Sony receiver, and if I ever get new speakers, force the old ones to replace the sound bar

[Stagea]

Seems I have one more thing to play around with. My time seems limited these days... maybe on the weekend. I feel another movie night coming on! 

 

Cool. Keep us posted.

 

What projector have you looked into? The Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 5030UB is a very good all-rounder for the price (around 2.2k). It'd probably work until UHD becomes affordable.

[johnt]

Cool. Keep us posted.

 

What projector have you looked into? The Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 5030UB is a very good all-rounder for the price (around 2.2k). It'd probably work until UHD becomes affordable.

I haven't looked too closely at anything. I found a few reviews last week and I'm very surprised to see Epson near the top of the list. They used to make good printers. I wish I could rent or get a decent model nearby. Fry's and Best Buy isn't likely going to have a good selection.

I'm thinking an acoustic transparent screen so I can throw the center behind it. Might need to buy a new house for all this stuff haha

[SSL]

I haven't looked too closely at anything. I found a few reviews last week and I'm very surprised to see Epson near the top of the list. They used to make good printers. I wish I could rent or get a decent model nearby. Fry's and Best Buy isn't likely going to have a good selection.

I'm thinking an acoustic transparent screen so I can throw the center behind it. Might need to buy a new house for all this stuff haha

 

Probably. Paint your room black.

[Stagea]

I haven't looked too closely at anything. I found a few reviews last week and I'm very surprised to see Epson near the top of the list. They used to make good printers. I wish I could rent or get a decent model nearby. Fry's and Best Buy isn't likely going to have a good selection.

I'm thinking an acoustic transparent screen so I can throw the center behind it. Might need to buy a new house for all this stuff haha

You can buy the house next door and turn it to your mancave. 

 

Epson still makes great printers. We used to benchmark our products against theirs a lot. 

[spwath]

I haven't looked too closely at anything. I found a few reviews last week and I'm very surprised to see Epson near the top of the list. They used to make good printers. I wish I could rent or get a decent model nearby. Fry's and Best Buy isn't likely going to have a good selection.

I'm thinking an acoustic transparent screen so I can throw the center behind it. Might need to buy a new house for all this stuff haha

Yeah I already have a plan.

After college I'm going to move to Alaska, and turn the basement into a nice home theater, and have in wall wiring and such

[johnt]

Probably. Paint your room black.

 

WAF: 0%

 

Wife says no black paint. I don't really want to paint my living room black anyway... but my garage might be a different story. I imagine it would upset the neighbors... more.

 

 

You can buy the house next door and turn it to your mancave. 

 

Epson still makes great printers. We used to benchmark our products against theirs a lot. 

 

WAF: 5%

 

Epson, huh? That comes as a bit of a shock to me. I saw a pic of this guy who put up a 20-foot screen in his garage. Talk about drooling... 

 

 

Yeah I already have a plan.

After college I'm going to move to Alaska, and turn the basement into a nice home theater, and have in wall wiring and such

 

Why Alaska... do you want bears as friends, or do you want to steal electricity from the Canadians?

 

You're gonna freeze your nuts! 

[johnt]

I did something this week that I'm not ashamed of.

[spwath]

WAF: 0%

Wife says no black paint. I don't really want to paint my living room black anyway... but my garage might be a different story. I imagine it would upset the neighbors... more.

WAF: 5%

Epson, huh? That comes as a bit of a shock to me. I saw a pic of this guy who put up a 20-foot screen in his garage. Talk about drooling...

Why Alaska... do you want bears as friends, or do you want to steal electricity from the Canadians?

You're gonna freeze your nuts!

Looks nice there.

And is warm in summer

[Stagea]

 

Epson, huh? That comes as a bit of a shock to me. I saw a pic of this guy who put up a 20-foot screen in his garage. Talk about drooling... 

 

 

Yup. Their inkjets aren't the most serviceable (or reliable when not used), but they have the best printing technology in the market (in terms of color print quality). Their 10-color HDR inkjets (professional printers) rival dye sub in photographic quality (it actually comes out on top a lot of times). Tonal transitions are excellent (unusual for pigment ink), and color gamut is essentially the entire Pantone coverage (which is greater than what most monitors can display) when used with their papers. Most printers struggle to even meet the CMYK gamut.

 

Color space comparison:

 

 

 

Epson's consumer model inkjets are trickle-down tech from their professional printers. I worked for electronics companies for ~11 years, ~5 of those years were for consumer electronics, the remaining ~6 were for a business machine company (yup, lots of printers and MFCs). I've been working for a risk management firm for the past ~3 years (thinking that I'd eventually like it), but I can't get myself off electronics. 

[SSL]

WAF: 0%

 

Wife says no black paint. I don't really want to paint my living room black anyway... but my garage might be a different story. I imagine it would upset the neighbors... more.

 

Better consider your screen carefully then, the backscatter from light walls will kill your contrast ratio.

[spwath]

A large screen definitely makes a huge difference. What projector are you looking at getting? Aside from projector selection, screen selection is just as important. 

 

Aside from limiting light penetration into the room, a dark colored room will do a lot better with a projector than a light colored room. A light colored room bounces light off from the projector screen back into the screen, which causes contrast to suffer significantly as the dark portions get noticeably lit up by the reflected light (especially visible when displaying bright scenes and/or scenes with both bright and dark elements). Even projectors with the best black levels won't do so well in a light-colored room.

You seem to know about projectors.

What the heck is this projector?

Its the size of a coffee table...

http://rochester.craigslist.org/ele/5242602904.html

[Stagea]

You seem to know about projectors.

What the heck is this projector?

Its the size of a coffee table...

http://rochester.craigslist.org/ele/5242602904.html

 

I'm willing to bet that's a CRT front projector. Those things have 3 CRTs (one per primary color), typically with individual lens systems. You adjust convergence to make the images overlap to get a full color picture.