Home Network Setup Project.

[XzzDSA]

Heyo o/

 

So a few years back my family and I moved in to a brand new house. And ever since I've been super frustrated with the wireless connectivity throughout the house.

 

Reasoning for the lackluster connectivity is mostly due (I believe) to the massive concrete walls and big window fronts that make up most of the house, in several stories. 

 

So this thread is going to be a small project thread where I will plan for a proper network setup for the wireless connectivity throughout the house. I'll get some plans and record some speeds throughout the house so that I and anyone who's interrested in helping me out with this, can get an idea of how the connectivity is now, the layout of the house, and how the wireless solution (hopefully) will improve going forward.

 

I hope some of you network geniouses are willing to help me out

 

EDIT:(19/08/15)
I'll be uploading a layout, our current configuration and the connectivity, probably later tonight.

 

EDIT:(24/08/15)

POST #11:

 

Here are the layouts of all three floors:

 

- Thick walls represent solid concrete walls

- Thin walls represent glass walls (no outer wall also represents glass walls/windows)

 

- Red and Blue dots represent 1gbit ethernet outlets. Which are all connected (or can be) to a big 24-port switch and router/modem.

 

 

(I'll clean up the pictures when I add the connectivity/deadspots)

 

Celler:

 

Ground floor:

 

1st floor:

 

EDIT:(26/08/15)

POST #16:

 

Right, so I'll be focusing on the celler, beucause honestly the other floors are actually okay.

So here's a clean version of the celler layout, with the rough areas of either REALLY BAD signal strength and stability, or nothing at all.

This is with the AP (behind a TV) on the wall to the left of the stairs (red dot).

 

By the way. We are using apple AP, all connected to an Apple extreme router, which this is connected to our modem.

So my question is now, should I invest in more apple APs and dot around this floor to cover the blackspots? Or is there an AP that can punch through these walls better? 

 

[InVis]

At your service

[XzzDSA]

Right. So I'm waiting for a bunch of blueprints of the house. When I've got those I'll upload maps for each story with a rough blackout of the connectivity, and we'll go from there I didn't get to do it the other night as I'd hoped for unfortunally And I'll be out of the house the next few days as well. But I'm not in a hurry anyways

[skywake]

I'm assuming that this grand plan will involve running Ethernet and adding extra access points right? Because if you post the maps and the blackspots as they are I'm sure people could give suggestions about how many access points and where they can be placed. But if your plan is to solve this with range extenders? .... I'm not sure how much anyone can help.

[XzzDSA]

I'm assuming that this grand plan will involve running Ethernet and adding extra access points right? Because if you post the maps and the blackspots as they are I'm sure people could give suggestions about how many access points and where they can be placed. But if your plan is to solve this with range extenders? .... I'm not sure how much anyone can help.

Good question:

We've got ethernet ports in 95% of rooms throughout the house, so there're plenty of spots to mount access points.

[dave01978]

Good question:

We've got ethernet ports in 95% of rooms throughout the house, so there're plenty of spots to mount access points.

I would get 1 or 2 access poimts and move it around and kind of test and if you need more go from there

[skywake]

As a general rule of thumb for an average home setup:

- 1x poorly placed Access point will cause endless frustration, regardless of spec

- 1x perfectly placed Access point will probably be good enough

- 2x poorly placed Access points that are spread apart will be better than 1x well placed one

- 2x perfectly placed Access points will be about as good as it gets unless your home is massive

- 3x Access points is probably overkill

 

but sure, if you can post where your network points are and what sort of range you're getting? It should be obvious to you if you do this but I will post what I think are the best two spots. And for what it's worth this is my current setup, all of my network points are on the outside walls. I've tried a few different placements and this is the setup that seems to give me the most coverage across the house and out the back. If you don't end up posting maps and so on? Something along the lines of what I've done would be what I'd suggest.

 

[XzzDSA]

As a general rule of thumb for an average home setup:

- 1x poorly placed Access point will cause endless frustration, regardless of spec

- 1x perfectly placed Access point will probably be good enough

- 2x poorly placed Access points that are spread apart will be better than 1x well placed one

- 2x perfectly placed Access points will be about as good as it gets unless your home is massive

- 3x Access points is probably overkill

 

but sure, if you can post where your network points are and what sort of range you're getting? It should be obvious to you if you do this but I will post what I think are the best two spots. And for what it's worth this is my current setup, all of my network points are on the outside walls. I've tried a few different placements and this is the setup that seems to give me the most coverage across the house and out the back. If you don't end up posting maps and so on? Something along the lines of what I've done would be what I'd suggest.

 

 

When I get home later this evening, I'll upload the maps and later update with the connectivity. You'll understand better, why I wanted to make this thread.

 

Also, I need to be sure I understand this properly:

My understanding of how AP's/Range extenders work is that they split the total bandwith across themselves. So say I have two AP's and an ingoing speed of 100mbit. I'd split the bandwith between the two AP's evenly, regardless of the load on either one. So a maximum of 50mbit would be able to be pulled from any one AP at any time..

This might be completely wrong, but I read this somewhere, at some point. Might have missunderstood it though so please enlighten me

[skywake]

Also, I need to be sure I understand this properly:

My understanding of how AP's/Range extenders work is that they split the total bandwith across themselves. So say I have two AP's and an ingoing speed of 100mbit. I'd split the bandwith between the two AP's evenly, regardless of the load on either one. So a maximum of 50mbit would be able to be pulled from any one AP at any time..

Ok, for arguments sake lets say that you have a bunch of wireless devices and they all run at 80Mbps.

 

Range Extender: (splits its bandwidth between the access point and its clients)

-> Access Point/Router - 40Mbps -> Range extender - 40Mbps -> Clients

 

Multiple Access points: (each one works independently)

-> Access Point 1 - 80Mbps -> Client 1

-> Access Point 2 - 80Mbps -> Client 2

-> Access Point 3 - 80Mbps -> Client 3

[XzzDSA]

Ok, for arguments sake lets say that you have a bunch of wireless devices and they all run at 80Mbps.

 

Range Extender: (splits its bandwidth between the access point and its clients)

-> Access Point/Router - 40Mbps -> Range extender - 40Mbps -> Clients

 

Multiple Access points: (each one works independently)

-> Access Point 1 - 80Mbps -> Client 1

-> Access Point 2 - 80Mbps -> Client 2

-> Access Point 3 - 80Mbps -> Client 3

Alright, that clears it up. Thanks. I'll upload the layout in a few minutes

[XzzDSA]

Here are the layouts of all three floors:

 

- Thick walls represent solid concrete walls

- Thin walls represent glass walls (no outer wall also represents glass walls/windows)

 

- Red and Blue dots represent 1gbit ethernet outlets. Which are all connected (or can be) to a big 24-port switch and router/modem.

 

 

(I'll clean up the pictures when I add the connectivity/deadspots)

 

Celler:

 

Ground floor:

 

1st floor:

[XzzDSA]

Basicly my theory is that all of the concrete and glass walls results in ALOT of deadspots and low strenght signals through out the whole house.

[dzonidev]

Looking at your blueprints I would setup 3 Access points, one for each floor. For the cellar I would place the AP right next to the stairs. As for the ground floor, I would place the AP on the small wall between glass windows, that way you can get even signal on each side of the house. And the 1st floor, the Toilet wall could be the best place. This should be enough for a good signal. You have a lot of open space which is good.

 

I recommend using Ubiquiti UAPs, they have very good range and can withstand a decent amount of connected clients.

[skywake]

I looked at the image, worked out where I'd place them and..... came to the same conclusion as @dzonidev

 

If you want to find out whether this placement works well? Put it in the location both of us suggested on the ground floor. Then show us where the blackspots are. We should then have an idea about whether the other two APs need to be closer to or further away from that first AP.

 

BTW, glass doesn't hurt the wireless signal at all. It'll run right through it. Concrete is pretty harsh. It's metal surfaces that give it the biggest troubles

[InVis]

I looked at the image, worked out where I'd place them and..... came to the same conclusion as @dzonidev

 

If you want to find out whether this placement works well? Put it in the location both of us suggested on the ground floor. Then show us where the blackspots are. We should then have an idea about whether the other two APs need to be closer to or further away from that first AP.

 

BTW, glass doesn't hurt the wireless signal at all. It'll run right through it. Concrete is pretty harsh. It's metal surfaces that give it the biggest troubles

 

Agree.

 

Alltho - glass with sun-reflective surfaces will hurt the signal ALOT and also Privalite glass kills the signal and 3-4 layer windows (thermo glass) will also take a way quite a lot of the signal   

[XzzDSA]

Right, so I'll be focusing on the celler, beucause honestly the other floors are actually okay.

So here's a clean version of the celler layout, with the rough areas of either REALLY BAD signal strength and stability, or nothing at all.

This is with the AP (behind a TV) on the wall to the left of the stairs (red dot).

 

By the way. We are using apple AP, all connected to an Apple extreme router, which this is connected to our modem.

So my question is now, should I invest in more apple APs and dot around this floor to cover the blackspots? Or is there an AP that can punch through these walls better? 

 

[lol1290]

Since u guys are talking about this thing, I have a question. What does block signal more? Concrete or Brick wall?

[dzonidev]

-snip-

 

Use Ubiquiti UniFi Aps and place one where the signal is the worst. That wold be the bottom right corner of the image. And optionally you can place another UniFi AP on the other side, but that would likely be overkill.

 

EDIT:

 

I would actually replace the Apple AP with the Ubiquiti and place the Apple AP in the bottom right corner. That should solve the issue in the top right.

[XzzDSA]

Use Ubiquiti UniFi Aps and place one where the signal is the worst. That wold be the bottom right corner of the image. And optionally you can place another UniFi AP on the other side, but that would likely be overkill.

 

EDIT:

 

I would actually replace the Apple AP with the Ubiquiti and place the Apple AP in the bottom right corner. That should solve the issue in the top right.

Placing one at one end would not solve the problem in the other though Might have to place two of them. My only concern then is if so many AP's within a tight space would cause any kind of unwanted interference.?

 

Anywhere I can read about this AP to get a little more knowledgable about it, any suggestions? (other than their site)

[skywake]

I don't think the problem is with the access point itself and the solution would be to have more and place them better. However after a point it's diminishing returns. I have to wonder how much the network points on the other floor impact the coverage in the cellar. Do you get any coverage directly underneath at all? If you do you could use that to your advantage.

 

If I was to suggest in isolation what to do for that floor? If possible I would find a way to place the access point on the roof to the far right of the main room. If that's not possible I'd add a second access point to the second location from the bottom on the right. It's the closest to the centre of the main dead-zone. I wouldn't go much more than that because after a point your devices will be spending all their time swapping between access points. Which is its own problem.

[XzzDSA]

I don't think the problem is with the access point itself and the solution would be to have more and place them better. However after a point it's diminishing returns. I have to wonder how much the network points on the other floor impact the coverage in the cellar. Do you get any coverage directly underneath at all? If you do you could use that to your advantage.

 

If I was to suggest in isolation what to do for that floor? If possible I would find a way to place the access point on the roof to the far right of the main room. If that's not possible I'd add a second access point to the second location from the bottom on the right. It's the closest to the centre of the main dead-zone. I wouldn't go much more than that because after a point your devices will be spending all their time swapping between access points. Which is its own problem.

So first of all. I've got an AP on the ground floor, basicly just above the room to the north in the celler. I've got basicly no signal strength from that AP. It's a good thought, but it's not working unfortunally.

 

I was wondoring if I should place an AP in the right side of the north room (where you see the small blackspot). And then on directly opposite to it in the south room? If I do that I'll get rid of all of the blackspots, but I'm a bit sceptical if it'll create new blackspots in the big room in the middle.

[dzonidev]

Placing one at one end would not solve the problem in the other though Might have to place two of them. My only concern then is if so many AP's within a tight space would cause any kind of unwanted interference.?

 

Anywhere I can read about this AP to get a little more knowledgable about it, any suggestions? (other than their site)

 

That's where your mistaken, the Ubiquiti APs have a good range and a strong signal that would likely solve the dead spots in the top right. And the airport extreme will ensure there are no dead spots in the bottom right.

 

Keep in mind 2.4Ghz is good for only 3 channels 1,6 and 11. Those are non overlapping channels, use more than 3 APs in a space where their signals overlap and you will get interference.

 

https://www.ubnt.com/unifi/unifi-ap/

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004XXMUCQ

[XzzDSA]

So if what you're saying turns out to be true, I could properly replace my apple AP with the Ubiquiti Ap and would be okay?

[dzonidev]

So if what you're saying turns out to be true, I could properly replace my apple AP with the Ubiquiti Ap and would be okay?

 

Alright so I can't give you a definite answer I don't know particulars like distances signal strength, noise, other aps, and so on.

 

There are like 3 generations of Apple Airport Express and 6 generations of the Extreme. The only thing I can say is that Ubiquiti APs will send out a good signal. What I was talking about is buying an Ubiquiti Unfi AP and placing it where the current Apple AP is. Then taking that same Apple AP and placing it somewhere to cover the blind spots if there are any when you setup Ubiquiti.

[XzzDSA]

Alright so I can't give you a definite answer I don't know particulars like distances signal strength, noise, other aps, and so on.

 

There are like 3 generations of Apple Airport Express and 6 generations of the Extreme. The only thing I can say is that Ubiquiti APs will send out a good signal. What I was talking about is buying an Ubiquiti Unfi AP and placing it where the current Apple AP is. Then taking that same Apple AP and placing it somewhere to cover the blind spots if there are any when you setup Ubiquiti.

I'm just not sure if I replace the apple AP with the Ubiquiti AP that I'll be able to cover all of the potential blindspots with the remaining apple AP. But if the ubiquiti has alot better signal strength than the apple AP, then maybe it will be able to cover most of the blindspots on it's own.