Want to upgrade from O2+ODAC for LCD-2.2F

[FatEskimo97]

I want to eventually (probably in the summer about the same time I buy my Noble K10) upgrade from my O2+ODAC for my LCD-2 to the Schiit Mjolnir and use balanced XLR output, but I don't have the money to pair that with a Gungnir. Does getting an equivalent DAC make that much of a difference, or could I just pair the Mjolnir with a Modi 2 or Loki and not notice a difference?

[ESPclipse]

Well, I suppose an amp is only as good as its source, so if you think you can spare the change then get the best that you can. That being said, I use a Modi 2 Uber with my Schiit stack and I think it's wonderful. No doubt choosing high-end audio equipment is difficult - the price:performace ratio becomes almost negligible past ~$300, and they all do the same thing. I would hate to be in your shoes. See if you can test each DAC out. I think Schiit might let you try before you buy.

[SSL]

What's wrong with what you have now?

[xtroria]

You could always get a gungnir first and see if you can hear the difference between the 2 amps with blind test.

Or, i believe audio-gd has balanced amp and dac for $900

[BoredErica]

The O2 and Odac are transparent. If you hear a difference from that to anything else it is either 1) Incorrect setup for a test 2) Non-blind test 3) You are God 4) The other amp/dac are not transparent, in that they change the sound. With the O2 and Odac you are hearing exactly what the music sounds like through the track and headphones.

 

And why are you bothering with balanced? Double noise floor for noise rejection on a 3 foot cable? Please don't fall for Head-fi nonsense.

[angst92]

Balanced is no better than standard jack for headphones, it was designed for runs of cable over 100's of feet/meters.

[SSL]

Balanced is no better than standard jack for headphones, it was designed for runs of cable over 100's of feet/meters.

 

You're not thinking like an audiophile, gotta have that blackness between the notes.

[angst92]

Also just get an audilab qdac or something, it sounds almost identical to the mdac (which is in the same league as the high end shciit stack) except it costs £250 not £600 plus

[NannerBeans]

Any upgrade won't really get any better than the odac/o2. You'll just be throwing money away. 

[ym1453]

Look this is an expensive product and a very debatable category so you gotta try it out before you buy it and blind test it for the best results.

If you can't try it out get it with good return policy and than blind test it and if you don't hear a difference return it noting harmful will come out of that aside from you wallet hating you.

[BoredErica]

Blind testing is great but a PITA, especially with amps. It is unlikely that the OP will actually buy it and do a proper test and return it if he fails. AFAIK the guys at Schiit try to make a transparent product as well, and debating whether the Objective is transparent is a waste of time. In their own FAQ on their website, there is a question asking about why anybody would want to spend so much money on their most expensive amps, and the reply was:

 

 

 

A: You can get around town just as well in a 10-year-old Civic as a Corvette or Viper. You can rail against people buying expensive cars all you want, you can show them all the charts and graphs that they won’t get there any faster in their Corvette or Viper or Porsche or Mercedes or Bentley or what-have-you, you can regurgitate all the Consumer Reports stuff you want showing how high-end cars just cost a lot more money to buy and repair and maintain and insure and that in the end they don’t do a damn thing for the owner’s ego or attractiveness to the opposite sex. And you know what? They’ll still want the Corvette, Mercedes, Porsche, whatever. Same with audio. Bottom line, there’s great stuff available very inexpensively, and there are options that cost a lot more.

[SSL]

Blind testing is great but a PITA, especially with amps. It is unlikely that the OP will actually buy it and do a proper test and return it if he fails. AFAIK the guys at Schiit try to make a transparent product as well, and debating whether the Objective is transparent is a waste of time. In their own FAQ on their website, there is a question asking about why anybody would want to spend so much money on their most expensive amps, and the reply was:

 

So they're basically admitting that they exploit wilful stupidity. I mean, you can't blame them, they have families to feed!!!

[BoredErica]

So they're basically admitting that they exploit wilful stupidity. I mean, you can't blame them, they have families to feed!!!

If somebody buys a product and the FAQ itself says what to expect, you're paying a large premium for fancy buttons, I think there's nothing wrong with that. It's the customer's responsibility to be educated and I think Schiit is being remarkably honest for their line of business. My jimmies don't get rustled with people that know what they are buying but still decide to buy it despite the price. If somebody wants to spend $5k on an amp knowing it'll sound the same, they can stimulate the economy for me, IDC.

[SSL]

If somebody buys a product and the FAQ itself says what to expect, you're paying a large premium for fancy buttons, I think there's nothing wrong with that. It's the customer's responsibility to be educated and I think Schiit is being remarkably honest for their line of business. My jimmies don't get rustled with people that know what they are buying but still decide to buy it despite the price. If somebody wants to spend $5k on an amp knowing it'll sound the same, they can stimulate the economy for me, IDC.

 

Sure. It's a matter of giving people what they want vs what they need. Of course one type of company probably sells more products.

[t0wer]

Finally got around to testing that balanced amp I had.

 

I was swapping between balanced and single ended and couldn't tell a difference.

 

I was using 2x o2's, running balanced; and my m^3 single ended; both w/ HE500's

 

 

buy more music with the money, skip the balanced setup.

[xtroria]

Finally got around to testing that balanced amp I had.

 

I was swapping between balanced and single ended and couldn't tell a difference.

 

I was using 2x o2's, running balanced; and my m^3 single ended; both w/ HE500's

 

 

buy more music with the money, skip the balanced setup.

 

Time to sell your headphones and get a better one 

[FatEskimo97]

Ok I won't spend too much extra to go to balanced, then. The reason I want to upgrade is that I've been told although the O2+ODAC do a great job of driving the LCD-2.2F, you want to put at least a watt of power into them to fully drive them.

[xtroria]

Ok I won't spend too much extra to go to balanced, then. The reason I want to upgrade is that I've been told although the O2+ODAC do a great job of driving the LCD-2.2F, you want to put at least a watt of power into them to fully drive them.

 

It's very arguable, even if audeze says so. Honestly if there's a difference, the measurement should say so and so far no one has done the measurement

[SSL]

Ok I won't spend too much extra to go to balanced, then. The reason I want to upgrade is that I've been told although the O2+ODAC do a great job of driving the LCD-2.2F, you want to put at least a watt of power into them to fully drive them.

 

According to the data on the LCD2 fazor, 1W of power would achieve 126 dB. That's over twice as loud as a rock concert and for most people is beyond the threshold of pain.

 

A lot of audiophiles have some kind of bizarre power fetish even though headphones in general are not hard to drive.

[xtroria]

According to the data on the LCD2 fazor, 1W of power would achieve 126 dB. That's over twice as loud as a rock concert and for most people is beyond the threshold of pain.

A lot of audiophiles have some kind of bizarre power fetish even though headphones in general are not hard to drive.

Are there any measurements testing different amps and effect on the FR graph?

[SSL]

Are there any measurements testing different amps and effect on the FR graph?

 

No, and there needn't be. Provided a sufficient damping factor, amps and their loads do not interact.

 

Amps can sound different from one another, of course, but that is independent of what they're powering.

[FatEskimo97]

According to the data on the LCD2 fazor, 1W of power would achieve 126 dB. That's over twice as loud as a rock concert and for most people is beyond the threshold of pain.

 

A lot of audiophiles have some kind of bizarre power fetish even though headphones in general are not hard to drive.

Yea someone once told me something along the lines of: "Even if they're loud enough, they still might not be properly driven and you won't get the fullness you would with more power at the same volume."

Thank's for clearing that up. I was confused when he said that and I now know that what he said is false.

[xtroria]

Yea someone once told me something along the lines of: "Even if they're loud enough, they still might not be properly driven and you won't get the fullness you would with more power at the same volume."

Thank's for clearing that up. I was confused when he said that and I now know that what he said is false.

I generally think if it'll power the headphone to 105-110 dB or more, it's powerful enough

[SSL]

Yea someone once told me something along the lines of: "Even if they're loud enough, they still might not be properly driven and you won't get the fullness you would with more power at the same volume."

Thank's for clearing that up. I was confused when he said that and I now know that what he said is false.

 

No problem. "More power at the same volume" is nonsensical. You put in more power, you get more volume, it's basic physics.

[creatip123]

Yea someone once told me something along the lines of: "Even if they're loud enough, they still might not be properly driven and you won't get the fullness you would with more power at the same volume."

Thank's for clearing that up. I was confused when he said that and I now know that what he said is false.

 

Probably what he/she was referring to was voltage vs current. Voltage determines how loud the speaker/headphone will go, but it gotta be backed up with enough amount of current to 'drive it properly'. Not enough current results in a very bad overall sounds. Easy way to test this is to plug a middle-sensitivity (don't use IEM) headphone to a 'line out' jack. You'll get sound, but it'll be very bad, due to sever lack of current.

 

'Power' is the combination of those two, voltage and current, more precisely voltage X current.