loudspeakers input

[Benielishackove]

Shalom=Hello, will it be right to say that the rated input watts on your speaker is like a cup that fills with fire you can fill to the top "200w" and over that it would spill and burn the Kettle (amp) or break the cup (speaker coil\membrane) ? 

 

I guess its Boredom

Edited March 10, 2015 by Benielishackove

[Aniallation]

huh

[Benielishackove]

huh

fixed it maybe its more understandable now sorry about my bad English

[ShearMe]

fixed it maybe its more understandable now sorry about my bad English

 

Odd metaphor, but yes.

[Lutkeveld]

I would say no. You're leaving too many factors out for it to be accurate

[Benielishackove]

I would say no. You're leaving too many factors out for it to be accurate

but I can say it like that right ? if I want

[Guest]

but I can say it like that right ? if I want

 

lol you can say whatever comes into your head, that doesn't make it correct.

[Benielishackove]

lol you can say whatever comes into your head, that doesn't make it correct.

please tell me how u would say it then I would like to hear please

[mr moose]

If you hear distortion then you have a problem,  turn it down a little until the distortion goes away, then you wont have to worry about the rating on the back.

 

Or in other words, when you here the fire spilling out of the cup, turn the amp down so the fire stays in the cup. = all is good.

[creatip123]

There are a lot of factors to be considered, namely:

 

- power (watt) = voltage x current

- sensitivity/efficiency of the driver of the speaker itself

- the driver's impedance

- etc

 

Most people prefer the 'water pump' analogy, where a water pump is pushing water to a sprinkler or an electric motor. The water's pressure = voltage, the water's debit (amount of water) = current, the sprinkler or electric motor = speaker's driver

[Benielishackove]

you want to say that if the power is high enough the amp or the speaker will blow how would u say that in a metaphor ?  or is that not right

you and your factors I said membrane too

and what do the impedance got to do with the watt its always the same at each frequency ?  

what do u guys have against me ?

[Benielishackove]

If you hear distortion then you have a problem,  turn it down a little until the distortion goes away, then you wont have to worry about the rating on the back.

 

Or in other words, when you here the fire spilling out of the cup, turn the amp down so the fire stays in the cup. = all is good.

thank you, you got it !

whit out all the fancy factors

lmao

[Lutkeveld]

It's a combination of mechanical and thermal properties of the driver. Slamming the voice coil against the backplate (mech failure) happens in a second, melting a voice coil (thermal failure) happens over time. 

[Benielishackove]

It's a combination of mechanical and thermal properties of the driver. Slamming the voice coil against the backplate (mech failure) happens in a second, melting a voice coil (thermal failure) happens over time. 

yes that is what I meant not the membrane thank you for correcting me (mech failure)

[creatip123]

you want to say that if the power is high enough the amp or the speaker will blow how would u say that in a metaphor ?  or is that not right

you and your factors I said membrane too

and what do the impedance got to do with the watt its always the same at each frequency ?  

what do u guys have against me ?

 

The more correct question would be what do you got against people trying to correct you? Nobody said you're entirely wrong or dumb or something. Read the entire conversation from above, people are trying to give you a better understanding and/or analogy. 

 

The water pump analogy is more preferred (not saying the most correct) because it's easier to relate water pressure, water debit, workload, and the sprinkler and/or electric motor to the factors that affects how an amp and a speaker interact. The sprinkler will also blow if given way too much of what it can handle.

 

About impedance, first, impedance value is not always the same across all frequencies. For example: http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=7&graphID[]=863&scale=50

 

That was an extreme example though, not all driver got that much of fluctuation.

 

Second, that's not what I really meant when I said impedance also affects the equation. 

 

In speakers, most common varieties are 4 ohms, 6 ohms, and 8 ohms drivers, with various sensitivity. In headphones and/or earphones, which are also speakers, just smaller size, it's more varied, from 16 ohms up to 600 ohms. This, together with the sensitivity/efficiency rating, highly affect how much voltage and current needed. Let's just waive the impedance vs frequency fluctuation, and say the impedance stays the same across all frequencies. The higher the impedance, the more voltage it needs to overcome the impedance, the less current it needs to maintain stable performance, and vice versa.

 

Now take this example, let's say:

 

I got speaker A that needs 2V, 5A to perform to my expectation. Again from the paragraph above, voltage and current is affected by impedance and sensitivity ratings. 2V and 5A = 2x5 = 10 Watts

 

Now, I got 3 amps, X, Y, and Z, all are rated at 15 Watts (let's give a little headroom). They all should be able to drive the speaker right (or even beyond) to my expectation, right? 

 

What if:

 

Amp X got max 1.5V, 10A = 15 Watts

Amp Y got max 5V, 3A = 15 Watts

Amp Z got max 2.5V, 6A = 15 Watts

 

Surely at this point you can see that not all amps in the example will do the exact same thing, although they all got the same power (watt) ratings. X is lacking on voltage, the speaker won't get loud enough to my expectation. Y is lacking in current, I can get it loud to my expectation but most likely it will distort and/or clip. Z should be all right/ideal. 

 

Hopefully you'll see by now that it's not as simple as saying 'a 15 watts amp will absolutely be able to drive a speaker that needs 10 watts to perform as expected'. That's why I said impedance also play a part. 

[Benielishackove]

The more correct question would be what do you got against people trying to correct you? Nobody said you're entirely wrong or dumb or something. Read the entire conversation from above, people are trying to give you a better understanding and/or analogy. 

 

The water pump analogy is more preferred (not saying the most correct) because it's easier to relate water pressure, water debit, workload, and the sprinkler and/or electric motor to the factors that affects how an amp and a speaker interact. The sprinkler will also blow if given way too much of what it can handle.

 

About impedance, first, impedance value is not always the same across all frequencies. For example: http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=7&graphID[]=863&scale=50

 

That was an extreme example though, not all driver got that much of fluctuation.

 

Second, that's not what I really meant when I said impedance also affects the equation. 

 

In speakers, most common varieties are 4 ohms, 6 ohms, and 8 ohms drivers, with various sensitivity. In headphones and/or earphones, which are also speakers, just smaller size, it's more varied, from 16 ohms up to 600 ohms. This, together with the sensitivity/efficiency rating, highly affect how much voltage and current needed. Let's just waive the impedance vs frequency fluctuation, and say the impedance stays the same across all frequencies. The higher the impedance, the more voltage it needs to overcome the impedance, the less current it needs to maintain stable performance, and vice versa.

 

Now take this example, let's say:

 

I got speaker A that needs 2V, 5A to perform to my expectation. Again from the paragraph above, voltage and current is affected by impedance and sensitivity ratings. 2V and 5A = 2x5 = 10 Watts

 

Now, I got 3 amps, X, Y, and Z, all are rated at 15 Watts (let's give a little headroom). They all should be able to drive the speaker right (or even beyond) to my expectation, right? 

 

What if:

 

Amp X got max 1.5V, 10A = 15 Watts

Amp Y got max 5V, 3A = 15 Watts

Amp Z got max 2.5V, 6A = 15 Watts

 

Surely at this point you can see that not all amps in the example will do the exact same thing, although they all got the same power (watt) ratings. X is lacking on voltage, the speaker won't get loud enough to my expectation. Y is lacking in current, I can get it loud to my expectation but most likely it will distort and/or clip. Z should be all right/ideal. 

 

Hopefully you'll see by now that it's not as simple as saying 'a 15 watts amp will absolutely be able to drive a speaker that needs 10 watts to perform as expected'. That's why I said impedance also play a part. 

yes I know im not a technical taking guy im sorry about that

when u post your first comment you seem aggressive like nose up kind of a guy  but I see now u really trying to educate

so thank you

I know the AxV=W

didn't know that the speaker minded that

how one is to check this on own speakers and amp u made my day with this new exploration I will make if its possible without hurting or risking the equipment and or needs a heavy analysis equipment

thanx man !

this is why studio mid range monitors are the best I guess right ?like the Behringer: TRUTH B3031A

[creatip123]

yes I know im not a technical taking guy im sorry about that

when u post your first comment you seem aggressive like nose up kind of a guy  but I see now u really trying to educate

so thank you

I know the AxV=W

didn't know that the speaker minded that

how one is to check this on own speakers and amp u made my day with this new exploration I will make if its possible without hurting or risking the equipment and or needs a heavy analysis equipment

thanx man !

this is why studio mid range monitors are the best I guess right ?like the Behringer: TRUTH B3031A

 

V = I x R where I = current, and R = resistance, or impedance in AC signal (audio signal is AC). From here alone, you can see that impedance is in line with voltage, and inverse of current, => R= V/I

 

The higher the impedance, with the same current/ampere value, the higher the voltage needed, to overcome the resistance.

The higher the impedance, with the same voltage value, the lower the current needed to maintain the signal flow. 

 

Let's say there're 2 drivers, 600 ohms (headphones) vs 4 ohms. The 600 ohms one needs higher voltage, but lower current. The 4 ohms one needs lower voltage, but higher current.

 

That's why a small headphone amp (like the built-in amp of ipad, for example) is not adequate to drive passive speakers rated 8 ohms or below (unless it's insanely sensitive), because the headphone amp don't have enough current to maintain a stable signal flow. The speaker will still give out some sounds, but won't sound good, at all.

[Benielishackove]

creatip123 more please !

thank you !