Mantle SDK will be available to everyone this month! More details on the 5th!

[Canio22]

Lol I bet Microsoft feel really fucked over right now.

They totally deserve it. How is it fair that they can just sit on their backsides and let us suffer with inferior software?

[Gibbons]

Microsoft was already working on it. Some parts of Mantle *might* be included in the new OpenGL but now that Mantle won't be released as open source we will never know how much.

What I am trying to say is that Mantle's contribution to low level APIs were probably insignificant.

 

 

"In fact Khronos has confirmed that AMD has contributed Mantle towards the development of Vulkan, and though we need to be clear that Vulkan is not Mantle, Mantle was used to bootstrap the process and speed its development, making Vulkan a derivation of sorts of Mantle (think Unix family tree). What has changed from Mantle is that Khronos has gone through a period of refinement, keeping what worked in Vulcan and throwing out portions of Mantle that didn’t work well – particularly HLSL and anything that would prevent the API from being cross-vendor –  replacing it with the other necessary/better functionality."

 

http://anandtech.com/show/9038/next-generation-opengl-becomes-vulkan-additional-details-released

 

There is Mantle code is in Vulkan. Sounds like significant parts of Vulkan are taken from Mantle too. Just not the parts that would prevent Vulkan from running on nearly everything like opengl.

[LAwLz]

"In fact Khronos has confirmed that AMD has contributed Mantle towards the development of Vulkan, and though we need to be clear that Vulkan is not Mantle, Mantle was used to bootstrap the process and speed its development, making Vulkan a derivation of sorts of Mantle (think Unix family tree). What has changed from Mantle is that Khronos has gone through a period of refinement, keeping what worked in Vulcan and throwing out portions of Mantle that didn’t work well – particularly HLSL and anything that would prevent the API from being cross-vendor –  replacing it with the other necessary/better functionality."

 

http://anandtech.com/show/9038/next-generation-opengl-becomes-vulkan-additional-details-released

 

There is Mantle code is in Vulkan. Sounds like significant parts of Vulkan are taken from Mantle too. Just not the parts that would prevent Vulkan from running on nearly everything like opengl.

Yes Mantle most likely helped Khronos, but they were already working on Vulkan and we won't know just how much of Mantle is in OpenGL unless AMD releases the source code. Like the Anand article says, the new OpenGL version is made out of Khronos own code (which they were working on long before they got access to Mantle), modified Mantle code and Mantle code.

 

I just want everyone to understand this, because we already have fanboys shouting about how Khronos and Microsoft mostly just rebranding Mantle, which doesn't seem to be the case at all.

[VanayadGaming]

Update:http://community.amd.com/community/amd-blogs/amd-gaming/blog/2015/03/03/one-of-mantles-futures-vulkan

[Opcode]

Yes Mantle most likely helped Khronos, but they were already working on Vulkan and we won't know just how much of Mantle is in OpenGL unless AMD releases the source code. Like the Anand article says, the new OpenGL version is made out of Khronos own code (which they were working on long before they got access to Mantle), modified Mantle code and Mantle code.

 

I just want everyone to understand this, because we already have fanboys shouting about how Khronos and Microsoft mostly just rebranding Mantle, which doesn't seem to be the case at all.

glNext uses bits and pieces of Mantle and confirmation of that has been published today.

[mr moose]

Yes Mantle most likely helped Khronos, but they were already working on Vulkan and we won't know just how much of Mantle is in OpenGL unless AMD releases the source code. Like the Anand article says, the new OpenGL version is made out of Khronos own code (which they were working on long before they got access to Mantle), modified Mantle code and Mantle code.

 

I just want everyone to understand this, because we already have fanboys shouting about how Khronos and Microsoft mostly just rebranding Mantle, which doesn't seem to be the case at all.

 

Mate, it's almost a lost cause,  we have been trying to put the brakes on this runaway train of misinformation from the beginning.  When there was absolutely nothing but a tweeted wink from a frostbite developer.   Now fanboys everywhere think dx12 would not be what it it without mantle.  All I can say is Kudos to amd's marketing team for convincing people so adamantly that without them we wouldn't have api's or faster gpus or dp1.2with edp etc etc.  

 

You may as well give up, even in the face of the evidence they still claim dx12 is mantle, with mentalities like that you cannot win.  You can not use logic to enlighten an irrational mind.

[Opcode]

Mate, it's almost a lost cause,  we have been trying to put the brakes on this runaway train of misinformation from the beginning.  When there was absolutely nothing but a tweeted wink from a frostbite developer.   Now fanboys everywhere think dx12 would not be what it it without mantle.  All I can say is Kudos to amd's marketing team for convincing people so adamantly that without them we wouldn't have api's or faster gpus or dp1.2with edp etc etc.  

 

You may as well give up, even in the face of the evidence they still claim dx12 is mantle, with mentalities like that you cannot win.  You can not use logic to enlighten an irrational mind.

The problem is fanboy's acting on as if AMD did not take any part in these modern API's. When concrete evidence from the API holders state otherwise.

 

The anti-AMD train has been chugging hard lately and the biased opinions only create misleading information.

[mr moose]

The problem is fanboy's acting on as if AMD did not take any part in these modern API's. When concrete evidence from the API holders state otherwise.

 

The anti-AMD train has been chugging hard lately and the biased opinions only create misleading information.

 

What anti amd train?  Don't know if you've noticed but most people are only disputing the erroneous claims.  No one has actually said that amd sucks or doesn't make good stuff.

[LAwLz]

The problem is fanboy's acting on as if AMD did not take any part in these modern API's. When concrete evidence from the API holders state otherwise.

 

The anti-AMD train has been chugging hard lately and the biased opinions only create misleading information.

Anti-AMD train? All I am saying is that while there are bits and pieces (we don't know how much) of Mantle in Vulkan, it's still not just a Mantle ripoff.

Maybe you missed the other billion threads about this but we have had multiple people claim that both the new OpenGL and DirectX 12 is just a copy of Mantle. I am not talking about "they copied the idea" either, I mean people have claimed that it is flat out a copy/paste, and the code is the same, and that AMD did all the work.

 

That's the misinformation I am trying to prevent. Both Khronos and Microsoft have been working on low-level APIs since before AMD announced Mantle, and they are not just taking the code from AMD and calling it a day.

 

 

I don't see how that's "anti-AMD". It's not positive, but it's not anti either.

[Opcode]

What anti amd train?  Don't know if you've noticed but most people are only disputing the erroneous claims.  No one has actually said that amd sucks or doesn't make good stuff.

In doing so they tend to get quite biased to the point of "AMD isn't even capable of X, Y, or Z". I could probably fill a thread with quotes from numerous users from just the past week. It seems like when AMD heats up and becomes a hot topic they find their ways out of the nooks and cranny's of the forum.

 

Anti-AMD train? All I am saying is that while there are bits and pieces (we don't know how much) of Mantle in Vulkan, it's still not just a Mantle ripoff.

Maybe you missed the other billion threads about this but we have had multiple people claim that both the new OpenGL and DirectX 12 is just a copy of Mantle. I am not talking about "they copied the idea" either, I mean people have claimed that it is flat out a copy/paste, and the code is the same, and that AMD did all the work.

 

That's the misinformation I am trying to prevent. Both Khronos and Microsoft have been working on low-level APIs since before AMD announced Mantle, and they are not just taking the code from AMD and calling it a day.

 

 

I don't see how that's "anti-AMD". It's not positive, but it's not anti either.

It wasn't a finger pointed directly at anyone per say. Certainly the source base for Mantle, glNext and DirectX 12 greatly differentiates from one another.

[mr moose]

In doing so they tend to get quite biased to the point of "AMD isn't even capable of X, Y, or Z". I could probably fill a thread with quotes from numerous users from just the past week. It seems like when AMD heats up and becomes a hot topic they find their ways out of the nooks and cranny's of the forum.

 

It wasn't a finger pointed directly at anyone per say. Certainly the source base for Mantle, glNext and DirectX 12 greatly differentiates from one another.

The only post in this thread that even comes close to what your insinuating is that some guy said mantle is dead,  hardly an anti AMD argument.  Faa is probably the biggest nvidia fanboy and worst thing he seems to have said about amd is that their dx11 drivers are not as well optimised. 

 

I will call your bluff, please fill a page with quotes from numerous  people saying AMD isn't even capable of doing X, Y and Z.

[Opcode]

The only post in this thread that even comes close to what your insinuating is that some guy said mantle is dead,  hardly an anti AMD argument.  Faa is probably the biggest nvidia fanboy and worst thing he seems to have said about amd is that their dx11 drivers are not as well optimised. 

 

I will call your bluff, please fill a page with quotes from numerous  people saying AMD isn't even capable of doing X, Y and Z.

It's not thread specific (even threads devoted to other manufactures get the same attention). A prime example is to dig your way through this particular thread. Count how many times people freak out over just a 300w TDP as if the final product will be shit in the end no matter what ("300w? GTX 980 4 life AMD sux bawls"). Without even taking into consideration the performance per watt improvement that was made. I won't list them as like I said I could fill an entire thread with quotes that are particularly biased against the company (I will not promote spam as that's what I am trying to avoid). AMD's DirectX 11 drivers aren't all that well optimized either. Thus why AMD has a job opening for the position of "driver optimization". Tho certainly someone will be glad to inform you how the world is coming to its end because of it.

[mr moose]

It's not thread specific (even threads devoted to other manufactures get the same attention). A prime example is to dig your way through this particular thread. Count how many times people freak out over just a 300w TDP as if the final product will be shit in the end no matter what ("300w? GTX 980 4 life AMD sux bawls"). Without even taking into consideration the performance per watt improvement that was made. I won't list them as like I said I could fill an entire thread with quotes that are particularly biased against the company (I will not promote spam as that's what I am trying to avoid). AMD's DirectX 11 drivers aren't all that well optimized either. Thus why AMD has a job opening for the position of "driver optimization". Tho certainly someone will be glad to inform you how the world is coming to its end because of it.

 

So no quotes then of numerous people saying AMD can't do three different things?

 

I read that thread once before, I am not about to read it again to find the 2 people who hate AMD.  people don't like 300Watt TDP cards, they'd be saying exactly the same thing about nvidia if the tables were turned,  Also I think you'll find pointing out the reality of a product as reported  is not the same as hating on it or lying about it.

[Opcode]

So no quotes then of numerous people saying AMD can't do three different things?

 

I read that thread once before, I am not about to read it again to find the 2 people who hate AMD.  people don't like 300Watt TDP cards, they'd be saying exactly the same thing about nvidia if the tables were turned,  Also I think you'll find pointing out the reality of a product as reported  is not the same as hating on it or lying about it.

At no point in time did I claim that people suggest AMD cannot do three different things.

 

You're not grasping the concept at all. A prime example will be once Fiji is launched the fanboys will come out "omg GTX 980 power consumption? who cares get rekt R9 390X 4 life". It's an ongoing back and forth biased battle among fanboys regardless of the two companies at hand. The same goes for Android vs iOS, Intel vs AMD, Nvidia vs AMD, Qualcomm vs Samsung, etc. The amount of biased fanboys in the community has risen since I've joined and I don't think anyone can dispute that. My problem is when they spurt fictional information about company X while claiming company Z is the indisputable omega. Cold hard facts should be top priority.

 

You may be fine with people posting misleading information tho others of us are strongly against it.

[Faa]

The problem is fanboy's acting on as if AMD did not take any part in these modern API's. When concrete evidence from the API holders state otherwise.

 

The anti-AMD train has been chugging hard lately and the biased opinions only create misleading information.

You were acting like DX12 = Mantle.

"Microsoft had to do a lot of ass kissing with AMD to make use of Mantle to get their API safely down to a lower level."

http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/305586-anandtech-reviews-directx-12-star-swarm/

For providing you the reality, we are on the anti-AMD train. If we make claims "Mantle is not a low-level API", we'll be classified as a fanboy. When you make a claim that DirectX isn't a low-level API while you were provided with official evidence that it is, who's being the fanboy? 

When I asked you to prove DX12 = Mantle or Mantle is in DX12 or whatever BS you were thinking, the response I got;

"From my sources (not Google) Microsoft has reached out to AMD to help them with DirectX 12. One of the reasons as to why DirectX has been high level for so long is that Microsoft has no clue how to secure it. Reaching out to AMD gave them all the resources that they needed to bring DirectX 12 back down (DirectX was low level before) to a low level API. To add weight to that Microsoft is not a hardware vendor. Their GPU drivers alone is nothing more than a joke."

http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/277275-will-amd-make-a-comeback-against-intel-once-dx12-comes-out-and-mainstream-developers-kill-support-for-4-cores/page-3#entry3771492

Accuses people of creating misleading misinformation when he's using himself (who's actually sponsored by AMD) as a source lol.

Seems he edited his signature, google apparently still has it in cache; 

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:KNQ7n_YF8Z4J:linustechtips.com/main/topic/224514-oneplus-2-will-be-out-q2-or-q3-of-2015/page-2+&cd=9&hl=nl&ct=clnk&gl=be

One more; http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:P5EA-Cfa6TkJ:linustechtips.com/main/topic/282970-industry-wide-implications-samsung-tsmc-16nm-finfet-extremely-low-yields-for-apple-others/%3Fview%3Dgetlastpost+&cd=7&hl=nl&ct=clnk&gl=be

Just stop complaining about "AMD sucks 300W" fanboys if you're worse.

[vm'N]

You were acting like DX12 = Mantle.

 

 

http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/305586-anandtech-reviews-directx-12-star-swarm/

For providing you the reality, we are on the anti-AMD train. If we make claims "Mantle is not a low-level API", we'll be classified as a fanboy. When you make a claim that DirectX isn't a low-level API while you were provided with official evidence that it is, who's being the fanboy? 

When I asked you to prove DX12 = Mantle or Mantle is in DX12 or whatever BS you were thinking, the response I got;

 

Accuses people of creating misleading misinformation when he's using himself (who's actually sponsored by AMD) as a source lol.

Seems he edited his signature, google apparently still has it in cache; 

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:KNQ7n_YF8Z4J:linustechtips.com/main/topic/224514-oneplus-2-will-be-out-q2-or-q3-of-2015/page-2+&cd=9&hl=nl&ct=clnk&gl=be

One more; http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:P5EA-Cfa6TkJ:linustechtips.com/main/topic/282970-industry-wide-implications-samsung-tsmc-16nm-finfet-extremely-low-yields-for-apple-others/%3Fview%3Dgetlastpost+&cd=7&hl=nl&ct=clnk&gl=be

Just stop complaining about "AMD sucks 300W" fanboys if you're worse.

I do believe when @Opcode mentioned that DX11 been a high-level API was in the context of mantle.

The same way the C language can be referred to as a low-, medium-, and high-level language, entirely depending in the context.

[mr moose]

Maybe your English is a bit rusty. At no point in time did I claim that people suggest AMD cannot do three different things.

 

You're not grasping the concept at all. A prime example will be once Fiji is launched the fanboys will come out "omg GTX 980 power consumption? who cares get rekt R9 390X 4 life". It's an ongoing back and forth biased battle among fanboys regardless of the two companies at hand. The same goes for Android vs iOS, Intel vs AMD, Nvidia vs AMD, Qualcomm vs Samsung, etc. The amount of biased fanboys in the community has risen since I've joined and I don't think anyone can dispute that. My problem is when they spurt fictional information about company X while claiming company Z is the indisputable omega. Cold hard facts should be top priority.

 

You may be fine with people posting misleading information tho others of us are strongly against it.

 

Stop putting words in peoples mouths,  you said you could "fill a thread" with quotes from "numerous people" , So either do it or stop posting rubbish then accusing people of not getting it because you can't support your claims.

 

In doing so they tend to get quite biased to the point of "AMD isn't even capable of X, Y, or Z". I could probably fill a thread with quotes from numerous users from just the past week. It seems like when AMD heats up and becomes a hot topic they find their ways out of the nooks and cranny's of the forum.

 

It wasn't a finger pointed directly at anyone per say. Certainly the source base for Mantle, glNext and DirectX 12 greatly differentiates from one another.

 

 

Prime example of what some of them posts look like (I get the sarcasm).

 

See here,  you specifically insinuated people claim AMD can't do X, Y and Z,  I don't know about anyone else but saying X, Y and Z means three different things, count them with me, X = the first thing, Y = the second thing and Z = the third thing.  Maybe it's you that does not have a firm grasp on English.  You need to learn that some people are not going to like every product AMD makes, you are also going to have to learn that sometimes AMD will do something that turns out to be totally irrelevant.  pointing these things out is not the same as hating AMD or "being biased".  Please show me all these people who are spouting misinformation about AMD.

[Opcode]

Stop putting words in peoples mouths,  you said you could "fill a thread" with quotes from "numerous people" , So either do it or stop posting rubbish then accusing people of not getting it because you can't support your claims.

You're the one putting words in peoples mouths. Saying I could doesn't mean I will (English lesson #1) meanwhile I said I won't (spam is against CoC).

 

See here,  you specifically insinuated people claim AMD can't do X, Y and Z,  I don't know about anyone else but saying X, Y and Z means three different things, count them with me, X = the first thing, Y = the second thing and Z = the third thing.  Maybe it's you that does not have a firm grasp on English.  You need to learn that some people are not going to like every product AMD makes, you are also going to have to learn that sometimes AMD will do something that turns out to be totally irrelevant.  pointing these things out is not the same as hating AMD or "being biased".  Please show me all these people who are spouting misinformation about AMD.

Wrong. It's a figure of speech as while there are plenty of subjects to fill your own X, Y, and Z tree (300w TDP, Drivers, FX, Mantle, etc) it's to distinguished as a whole. Like I said your English has to be extremely rusty to not be able to comprehend my perfectly legible posts. You need to learn that it doesn't matter what people like. The whole foundation of my argument is about not caring what people like (that's where being biased comes from). You'll have to attack me harder than that to even remotely attempt to one up me.

 

[mr moose]

 

You're the one putting words in peoples mouths. Saying I could doesn't mean I will (English lesson #1) meanwhile I said I won't (spam is against CoC).

 

Wrong. It's a figure of speech as while there are plenty of subjects to fill your own X, Y, and Z tree (300w TDP, Drivers, FX, Mantle, etc) it's to distinguished as a whole. Like I said your English has to be extremely rusty to not be able to comprehend my perfectly legible posts. You need to learn that it doesn't matter what people like. The whole foundation of my argument is about not caring what people like (that's where being biased comes from). You'll have to attack me harder than that to even remotely attempt to one up me.

 

 

So now you wish to backpedal into a semantic hole and avoid proving your point?

 

You claimed people where biased saying that AMD couldn't even do X, Y and Z.  Which even if you had used it as a figure of speech still indicates multiple things that you think people are saying about AMD.  I ask you to back that claim up and you can't.  This by it's very definition is putting words in peoples mouths. 

 

Either prove people are saying it or stop telling everyone they are, it's your choice.  Don't try to blame me because you got all defensive about your precious AMD and can't support your claims.

[Opcode]

So now you wish to backpedal into a semantic hole and avoid proving your point?

 

You claimed people where biased saying that AMD couldn't even do X, Y and Z.  Which even if you had used it as a figure of speech still indicates multiple things that you think people are saying about AMD.  I ask you to back that claim up and you can't.  This by it's very definition is putting words in peoples mouths. 

 

Either prove people are saying it or stop telling everyone they are, it's your choice.  Don't try to blame me because you got all defensive about your precious AMD and can't support your claims.

Nope, not once did I say I will break CoC to conform a new thread that is purely spam.

 

You got a list of multiple things that far exceeds your own X, Y, and Z richter scale.

 

No one's on the defense I'm just still waiting for the proof of how wrong I am. I don't stand up for any company more than the others (I am completely unbiased).

[mr moose]

Nope, not once did I say I will break CoC to conform a new thread that is purely spam.

 

You got a list of multiple things that far exceeds your own X, Y, and Z richter scale.

 

No one's on the defense I'm just still waiting for the proof of how wrong I am. I don't stand up for any company more than the others (I am completely unbiased).

 

That middle sentence doesn't even make sense.

 

If your not willing or can't backup your claims then stop making them.  It's getting tiring to see you shit cake all over anything or anyone who dare say meh about an AMD product. 

 

You literally called people liars for bring biased views but refuse to show us which ones.  If that isn't biased fanboy talk then no one knows what is. 

[Opcode]

That middle sentence doesn't even make sense.

 

If your not willing or can't backup your claims then stop making them.  It's getting tiring to see you shit cake all over anything or anyone who dare say meh about an AMD product. 

 

You literally called people liars for bring biased views but refuse to show us which ones.  If that isn't biased fanboy talk then no one knows what is. 

Further backing up my previous statements.

 

How much credibility must you have to willingly pick out members of the forum just to shun them. If you're wrong about something I'll quote you (like I have been). It doesn't have to be relevant to AMD at all as this isn't an AMD fan community. Dig through my profile and do a content search on my posts. All the proof you need and then some.

 

Read the above statement and let me know how long you want to carry this out while not discussing the topic at hand.

[VanayadGaming]

Vulkan does have mantle as its base. It says so right on their website. They used Mantle to bootstrap vulkan and took the parts that are not vendor specific.

[Opcode]

Vulkan does have mantle as its base. It says so right on their website. They used Mantle to bootstrap vulkan and took the parts that are not vendor specific.

Should be interesting to see how well Vulkan promotes Linux gaming. Having a Mantle base will make porting games from DirectX 12 to OpenGL simple.

[airdeano]

for those that seem to want to argue (not debate/discuss), please take it to

PM and resolve the differences rather than clog this thread with a lot of

back-n-forth of "XX said".