Nvidia attempting to appease customers.

[LAwLz]

I really, but really doubt there was no formal technical presentation of both the architecture and the card itself, from the engineering team to the technical marketing team. This is not a "small detail"... this completely changes the product advertised. And this is not a small product, it's probably the best selling high end card.

So you think Nvidia could never make a mistake? It doesn't change the product advertised either. The card still performs exactly as well as it did on launch, and everyone loved it back then.

 

 

In my opinion they just tried to keep it simple to communicate, because that's on of the things marketing is supposed to do. Probably in their minds they thought:

"Why should we waste time to complicate a simple product, by adding layers of technical details that 99% of the people wont understand, and all they care is performance... plus no one will find out. If the reviewers didn't, then surely the consumer wont. We will be getting the benefit of the perception of a cut-down 980 and the current trend of the 4GB of VRAM remains there."

So you think they deliberately lied about it? Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't it Nvidia that went out and corrected the ROP numbers themselves? Again I haven't followed this very closely but it seems like people were seeing bad memory performance, Nvidia went out and clarified why and then went "oh and there are less ROPs on the card as well". They wouldn't have done that if they were trying to hide it like you accuse them of doing.

 

This is not a honest mistake - it's a honest strategy to try to make something complicated way more simple for the consumer perception. But what isn't honest is the bullshit and silence around this.

 

They were caught doing illegal stuff - it happens. Admit it, suck it up and deal with it.

 

What is NVIDIA doing? Lying, hiding and waiting this to blow over. Typical NVIDIA.

People are hateful not only because they were lied to, but because of the reaction of NVIDIA - like usually they are being greedy pigs who are thinking about their stock holders and fucking their clients up over it.

 

It is NVIDIA who is blowing this out of proportion, not their customers who were fooled.

Wait... First you say they are bad because they are waiting for it to blow over, and then you say they are bad because they are "blowing this out of proportions"? Make your mind up already. Do you want them to talk about it or not? From what I have seen it doesn't seem like they are blowing it out of proportions at all. We have more threads about it on LTT alone (right now we have 5 on the first page of news) than what I have seen official statements from Nvidia.

 

Also, it's only a lie if they had the intention to deceive the customers. Personally I think it is a honest mistake since they have never done it before (as far as I know) and it is a brand new thing (partially disabling units) that a lot of people were not aware of.

 

​This is the big difference you NVIDIA advocates aren't getting.

Ahaha, I am an Nvidia advocate? I am a pretty shitty one if that's the case because in this thread I have said Nvidia fucked up and I have called them AIDS many times in the past. I guess that if I don't take on them 100% of the time, for every single thing they make then I must be an advocate for them...

I just think this was a honest mistake and since it doesn't really change how the card performs, but rather it just changes an irrelevant (non-benchmark) number on some reviews I don't care. The 512MB of VRAM that's slow is a problem, but the L2 and ROPs are completely irrelevant. Those specifications aren't even directly published by Nvidia. They are only found in the reviewer guide (written by their technical marketing department).

 

The reaction of each one is up to them. You can't blame who is unpleased and wants a refund as much as those who were fooled and are fine with it.

Well I don't think you would ever buy an Nvidia product so why are you getting upset? "Fooled" also assumes that people looked at the specs and went "oh this card is good so I will buy it" and not "oh this card performs well in benchmarks, I will buy it". The benchmarks were and are still accurate. That's the reason I don't understand why people are upset. The 970 performs just as well as it did at launch. If someone told me that the battery in my phone was mislabeled and it was actually slightly lower Wh than what was written on it, would I return the phone and be super upset? Of course not. The battery life won't get worse just because the text on the battery is wrong. It still gets the same battery life as it did before the mistake was discovered.

[bogus]

So you think Nvidia could never make a mistake? It doesn't change the product advertised either. The card still performs exactly as well as it did on launch, and everyone loved it back then.

 

This isn't a mistake. A mistake is to ship a card with malfunctions. A mistake is to say in a interview something wrong. A mistake is to have a different type font in the middle of a text. A mistake is forgetting that a benchmark could expose the actual card specs.

If you are selling a product, to get the SPECS wrong it's no mistake because such is the identity of the product! So it wouldn't be a misscommunication between marketing and engineering - it's a mistake all the way from engineers to upper management, during 4 months. So it's not one mistake, it would be several mistakes for several months (yes because there are reports and feedbacks from every party involved in it, from inside the company and outside - like reviewers).

So I just find it too many mistakes for too long for such a methodical and successful company.

This has nothing to do with performance. It's about specifications.

 

So you think they deliberately lied about it? Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't it Nvidia that went out and corrected the ROP numbers themselves? Again I haven't followed this very closely but it seems like people were seeing bad memory performance, Nvidia went out and clarified why and then went "oh and there are less ROPs on the card as well". They wouldn't have done that if they were trying to hide it like you accuse them of doing.

 

Yes, in a attempt of simplifying the product. Oh they sure did after they were caught lying - and probably realized the consequences of denying it - namely legally. They didn't correct right on the day...or the weekend... was quite some time after. So yeah, they had to change it.

I don't know about the memory performance issues, it doesn't matter. The card is what it is. But it isn't what was advertised, that's all to it.

 

 

Wait... First you say they are bad because they are waiting for it to blow over, and then you say they are bad because they are "blowing this out of proportions"? Make your mind up already. Do you want them to talk about it or not? From what I have seen it doesn't seem like they are blowing it out of proportions at all. We have more threads about it on LTT alone (right now we have 5 on the first page of news) than what I have seen official statements from Nvidia.

 

Also, it's only a lie if they had the intention to deceive the customers. Personally I think it is a honest mistake since they have never done it before (as far as I know) and it is a brand new thing (partially disabling units) that a lot of people were not aware of.

Yes it's bad that they are waiting for this to go away - because they know the internet doesn't forgive, but it does forget.

Oh you think that silence and hiding can't blow stuff out of proportion?! Jesus you do realize that without answers, people start to answer to themselfs and each other, gathering more missinformation and chaos. Much like what is happening now - and yet some people blame others for blowing this out of proportion when NVIDIA didn't say SHIT to them!

Oh but NVIDIA did this before: with DX11.2 support (feature sets of the hardware were limited, while AMD fully supported it - yet they advertised as DX11.2 support, so they had to come out about it), about power consumption of Tegra, these are just two from the top of my mind.

 

Ahaha, I am an Nvidia advocate? I am a pretty shitty one if that's the case because in this thread I have said Nvidia fucked up and I have called them AIDS many times in the past. I guess that if I don't take on them 100% of the time, for every single thing they make then I must be an advocate for them...

I just think this was a honest mistake and since it doesn't really change how the card performs, but rather it just changes an irrelevant (non-benchmark) number on some reviews I don't care. The 512MB of VRAM that's slow is a problem, but the L2 and ROPs are completely irrelevant. Those specifications aren't even directly published by Nvidia. They are only found in the reviewer guide (written by their technical marketing department).

 

Well I don't think you would ever buy an Nvidia product so why are you getting upset? "Fooled" also assumes that people looked at the specs and went "oh this card is good so I will buy it" and not "oh this card performs well in benchmarks, I will buy it". The benchmarks were and are still accurate. That's the reason I don't understand why people are upset. The 970 performs just as well as it did at launch. If someone told me that the battery in my phone was mislabeled and it was actually slightly lower Wh than what was written on it, would I return the phone and be super upset? Of course not. The battery life won't get worse just because the text on the battery is wrong. It still gets the same battery life as it did before the mistake was discovered.

I said "you NVIDIA advocates" I didn't say you, you. If you don't think you are one, then don't be offended. Plus you are entitled to your opinion, just like me.

Currently my hardware is Intel and NVIDIA, and I have two PCs.

[Trik'Stari]

If they want to appease me, they need to replace this defective product with one that actually has 4gb of Vram.

 

In Dying Light, I hit just below 3.5gb of vram when I'm not doing too much, as soon as I start fighting, I go over that, and things start sucking. Had to significantly reduce my draw distance to prevent this.

 

At 1080p.

 

They need to make this shit right, and replace these things.

[Brainless906]

If they want to appease me, they need to replace this defective product with one that actually has 4gb of Vram.

 

In Dying Light, I hit just below 3.5gb of vram when I'm not doing too much, as soon as I start fighting, I go over that, and things start sucking. Had to significantly reduce my draw distance to prevent this.

 

At 1080p.

 

They need to make this shit right, and replace these things.

 

In TBs Dying Light port report he was having issues with massive fps drops in relations to draw distance as well (on his 980 SLI setup)

[Trik'Stari]

he was having issues with massive fps drops in relations to draw distance as well (on his 980 SLI setup)

Did not realize his vid was out yet. I always expect issues in SLI, but I'm only running a single gpu at 1080.

 

There is talk of a patch coming, where would I download said patch? Or would steam do it automagically?

[Brainless906]

Did not realize his vid was out yet. I always expect issues in SLI, but I'm only running a single gpu at 1080.

 

There is talk of a patch coming, where would I download said patch? Or would steam do it automagically?

 

No idea as I didnt pick up the game so I haven't really been paying attention the what the devs are saying. I believe TB also does some testing with SLI turned off as well as hes getting pretty thorough with his port reports these days.

He also mentions that though it impacts a lot view distance doesnt actually change the visual fidelity very much at all even though it cuts fps almost in half 

[MblaZe7run]

I understand that people are beyond pissed about this, but technically, the card does have 4GB on it. This is like SOHO routers saying they are "AC1900" when in reality,  aren't going to get that 600Mbps+1300Mbps from using both the 2.4GHz and 5GHz band because most devices cannot access both at once (not to mention those speeds are completely theoretical). It's all marketing. Nvidia tried something new, saw it failed, and are immediately responding to fix it. Personally, this makes me like them more as a company. They realized their mistake, they want to remedy the situation, and they understand if they lose your business because they screwed up.

[AfroLedgend]

Could a driver actually fix the issue?

http://www.kitguru.net/components/graphic-cards/anton-shilov/nvidia-we-will-not-boost-geforce-gtx-970-performance-with-drivers/

 

The answer appears to be no.

[Albatross]

http://www.kitguru.net/components/graphic-cards/anton-shilov/nvidia-we-will-not-boost-geforce-gtx-970-performance-with-drivers/

 

The answer appears to be no.

 

Yea, I saw this in a few threads. There isn't even any link to the quote, or proof.

[GamerDude]

So they got caught lying to the consumer, and this is a good thing that they are now offering exchanges? Wouldn't be surprised if there was another class action in their future (remember the 8600M).

 

If I had purchased a 970, I'd be claiming consumer law all day long.

That's why nVidia would come out of this debacle smelling like roses, their fans are so forgiving. If this were done by AMD, and I'm an AMD guy, I'd NOT be so forgiving. Besides, nV fanboys here outnumber AMD fanboys, so if AMD had done it, there'd be truckloads of snide remarks and bashing. That's the way forums are these days....we have to hold these companies to a higher standard. That a mistake/oversight was made sounds highly unlikely, but hey, if those who have bought the GTX970 can forgive nVidia, who am I to say anything?

 

I was a victim of that GT8600M sham as well, the GPU died within two years of service, more like 20 months.....nVidia shirk any responsibility with that.

[Trik'Stari]

I will be made whole when my card is replaced with one that truly has 4gb of vram, and not 3.5gb of usable vram.

[stconquest]

I will be made whole when my card is replaced with one that truly has 4gb of vram, and not 3.5gb of usable vram.

 

It is a kick to the nuts though.  Pain will go away,  but WTF!?!

[Trik'Stari]

It is a kick to the nuts though.  Pain will go away,  but WTF!?!

Not really gonna go away, I bought this card for star citizen and now I find out that there's a good chance it will be shit for that game.

[MrSuperb]

I will be made whole when my card is replaced with one that truly has 4gb of vram, and not 3.5gb of usable vram.

 

it is a 4gb card and 4gb are usable ...

 

 

heck nobody complained about 4GB GTX760s or 7750s or whatever ...

[stconquest]

Not really gonna go away, I bought this card for star citizen and now I find out that there's a good chance it will be shit for that game.

 

It won't be quite shit.  It is still food =P

 

It is more like "less-optimal" as that 17% of the RAM pool is practically unusable... where the marketing (<<< this is where the food becomes shit) indicated that the RAM was 100% usable at peak performance. 

[Trik'Stari]

it is a 4gb card and 4gb are usable ...

 

 

heck nobody complained about 4GB GTX760s or 7750s or whatever ...

It's not usable when going over 3.5gb means less than 20 fps

[MrSuperb]

It's not usable when going over 3.5gb means less than 20 fps

 

you will get less than 20fps with a GTX 980, if you turn graphics settings up high enough.

 

People bought 970s based on reviews, based on benchmarks that were done in reviews.

I bet all the people get the same output with their 970s.

 

most people that feel strongly butthurt by this whole problem don't even have a 970, nor did they ever plan to buy one. 

[Trik'Stari]

you will get less than 20fps with a GTX 980, if you turn graphics settings up high enough.

 

People bought 970s based on reviews, based on benchmarks that were done in reviews.

I bet all the people get the same output with their 970s.

 

most people that feel strongly butthurt by this whole problem don't even have a 970, nor did they ever plan to buy one. 

I want to play Star Citizen with graphics set as high as I can manage when it comes out...this will downgrade that in order to achieve acceptable performance.

[stconquest]

I want to play Star Citizen with graphics set as high as I can manage when it comes out...this will downgrade that in order to achieve acceptable performance.

 

You know, why couldn't Nvidia just put out one good card at $400-$450.  This price point bull is getting stupid (both manufacturers).  Anyone spending $350 would easily spend $400, so wtf.