Apple Just Made An Incredible Amount Of Money

[Builder]

Unless you stick to stock Apple apps, that's borderline impossible.

Nope. I realize you're young and confident, so I guess I must list them? The app culture on iOS is far stronger. Here:

 

-Check the Weather

-PCalc

-Day One

-Vesper

-Overcast

-Workflow

-Deliveries

-Unread

-Drafts 4

-645 PRO

-VSCO Cam

-Screeny

-TextExpander

-Clips

-Dispatch

-OmniFocus

-Launch Center Pro

[Victorious Secret]

Nope. I realize you're young and confident, so I guess I must I list them? The app culture on iOS is far stronger. Here:

 

-Check the Weather

-PCalc

-Day One

-Vesper

-Overcast

-Workflow

-Deliveries

-Unread

-Drafts 4

-645 PRO

-VSCO Cam

-Screeny

-TextExpander

-Clips

-Dispatch

-OmniFocus

-Launch Center Pro

One of the apps I used to monitor my home security system exists on both iOS and Android. The Android version is the biggest disgrace of an app I've ever seen. Poor layout and dodgy operation and it just feels so bloody slow. 

iOS version? Scales the screen properly and doesn't stutter and is laid out logically. Far easier to use for my father too, with more "no duh" UI and UX decisions. 

 

[Builder]

iOS version? Scales the screen properly and doesn't stutter and is laid out logically. Far easier to use for my father too, with more "no duh" UI and UX decisions. 

Scaling is a big deal on iOS. Apple is betting big on auto layout and resolution-independent design. Expect more screen sizes coming from them soon.

 

Also to whomever said that they flood the market with every device and that's how they're successful, congrats. It used to be "Apple sells too few products to compete! They need more screen sizes!" and now it's "They sell too many screen sizes! That's cheating!"

[Techteen14]

Nope. I realize you're young and confident, so I guess I must I list them? The app culture on iOS is far stronger. Here:

 

-Check the Weather - Yahoo weather looks better

-PCalc - literally any scientific calculator app, even my stock one is.

-Day One - Evernote

-Vesper - Evernote

-Overcast - any podcast app, there are thousands

-Workflow - IFTTT, Tasker

-Deliveries - built into Google Now for free

-Unread - feedly, or any other RSS reader

-Drafts 4 - Google Keep, Evernote

-645 PRO - granted

-VSCO Cam - on Android

-Screeny - Android version coming soon IIRC

-TextExpander - thousands of third party keyboards

-Clips - Evernote

-Dispatch - Inbox, Gmail, Cloudmagic, any of the other thousand email clients

-OmniFocus - Evernote

-Launch Center Pro - thousands of launchers, I use Nova

Wow, you use some needlessly expensive apps.

[Builder]

Wow, you use some needlessly expensive apps.

Wow, you're an Android user. Who are you to tell me what software is worth?

[Techteen14]

One of the apps I used to monitor my home security system exists on both iOS and Android. The Android version is the biggest disgrace of an app I've ever seen. Poor layout and dodgy operation and it just feels so bloody slow. 

iOS version? Scales the screen properly and doesn't stutter and is laid out logically. Far easier to use for my father too, with more "no duh" UI and UX decisions.

Whereas Evernote looks miles better on Android and even has handwriting mode even if I don't use a stylus.

None of my 75+ apps have a problem with scaling.

[Techteen14]

Wow, you're an Android user. Who are you to tell me what software is worth?

Just saying, all but 3 of the 17 apps you listed have free alternatives (that are on iOS as well) that look/perform just as well (and sometimes better) than the ones you listed.

Plus, you use a lot of apps that do the same thing (e.g. You use 3 notes apps and two cameras, why?). Evernote is an amazing tool, even without Premium.

You could've saved +$50, just saying.

[Victorious Secret]

Wow, you're an Android user. Who are you to tell me what software is worth?

 

This is LTT, people who spend thousands (likely all the money they have) on computers like to judge people on how they spend their own money.

Get with the program! Don't you know its okay to spend everything on a PC but stupid to spend money on things YOU think are worth spending on? Pfft, that kind of free thinking isn't allowed here!

[Builder]

Just saying, all but 3 of the 17 apps you listed have free alternatives (that are on iOS as well) that look/perform just as well (and sometimes better) than the ones you listed.

Plus, you use a lot of apps that do the same thing (e.g. You use 3 notes apps and two cameras, why?). Evernote is an amazing tool, even without Premium.

You could've saved +$50, just saying.

So this is what it's like to be an Android user.

 

I can tell you don't use iOS, because none of those apps are duplicates and they all do different things. Do I REALLY have to do this?

 

-Check the Weather - Yahoo weather looks better - CTW has typography options that I like

-PCalc - literally any scientific calculator app, even my stock one is. -Not with RPN mode though. PCalc is also fully customizable down to every button

-Day One - Evernote -Journaling app, not for note taking

-Vesper - Evernote -Vesper is better designed

-Overcast - any podcast app, there are thousands -Overcast is better designed

-Workflow - IFTTT, Tasker -Literally don't even do the same thing

-Deliveries - built into Google Now for free -Design and syncing to my Mac

-Unread - feedly, or any other RSS reader -I do use Feedly. Feedly syncs my RSS, Unread and Reader read it. Design, design, design.

-Drafts 4 - Google Keep, Evernote -Not for note taking. Primarily useful for outputting text to other apps

-645 PRO - granted -Allows full control over camera

-VSCO Cam - on Android -My bad

-Screeny - Android version coming soon IIRC -My bad

-TextExpander - thousands of third party keyboards -Seriously? Do you even know what TE does?

-Clips - Evernote -Not for note taking. It's a clipboard manager.

-Dispatch - Inbox, Gmail, Cloudmagic, any of the other thousand email clients -Design, OmniFocus integration, other integration with everything else

-OmniFocus - Evernote -It's a GTD task manager, not a note taking app.

-Launch Center Pro - thousands of launchers, I use Nova -Launch Center Pro is available on iOS and uses URL schema so it's officially allowed

 

Get with the fucking program. You're wrong about nearly every app I use and for the ones you aren't wrong about, I bought them because I like the way they work.

[Sauron]

I generally don't like geekbench, but if you want geekbench results, you should go to the source, not some unreadable android source. Comparing phone SOCs to phone SOCs as comparing the K1 to the A7 just isn't fair. The 5s' A7 scores 1398 compared to the Exynos Note 4's 1176 and the 805 Note 4's 988. The iPhone 6's A8 is much faster at 1612, which is almost 50% faster in single threaded applications. Switching over to multicore, the 5s' competition is the GS5- the 5s scores 2518 vs the 2733 of the 801 GS5. So, the GS5 barely wins in a multithreaded benchmark against a super fast dual core. Now, the iPhone 6's A8 vs the Exynos Note 4 (8 core) and the 2 805 phones- the Nexus 6 and Note 4. The iPhone 6 scores 2885 vs the 3046 of the Nexus 6 and the 2968 of the Note 4. Just like in the case of the 5s vs S5, the iPhone isn't that much slower than its competition in a heavy multithreaded load, and smokes the competition in a heavy single threaded load. And like I said previously, there are no SOCs that are faster than that in the iPhones because, as your claim of "90% of the applications" actually "need the performance of a quad core use it perfectly well" is correct because the majority of benchmarks are multithreaded and pretty much all the other apps are not. And in those apps, having much higher single threaded performance gets you a better experience. But I forgive you for your misunderstanding of Apple's performance, a lot of people just are ignorant of Apple's standing. 

 

You are unbelievable. Why can't I compare the tegra K1 to the A8? How is it unfair, when there are phones out with it? And this is not even the point of what I was saying originally. My point was that the atom 3580 smokes the A8, being a high ipc cpu with twice as many cores. Even if the ipc is similar, the atom has two more cores, effectively doubling the performance in multithreaded applications.

 

Can you show me your data proving that "every other app except benchmarks" doesn't use more than two cores? Of course it doesn't on IOS, because IOS developers know that apple has a fetish for low core counts, but on android any application that uses more than image vieweing level of processing supports multithreading. Games are optimized for 4 cores, streaming apps are optimized for 4 cores, media players are optimized for as many cores as you can fit (mx player actually lets you choose how many threads you'd like to use), hell even custom ports of pc games such as doom 3 are specifically optimized for quad core SOCs and have been since the tegra 3 came out, do I need to go on? Stop making things up, they don't help your cause or give you any more credibility, quite the opposite in fact.

 

Not to mention multitasking capabilities are almost non-existant in ios. No wonder since it wouldn't have nearly enough memory or cores to do it properly.

 

 

 But I forgive you for your misunderstanding of Apple's performance, a lot of people just are ignorant of Apple's standing. 

 

Are you serious? Now you can "misunderstand" performance? "ignorant of apple's standing", what does that even mean? The dual core hyperthreaded atom owns the A7, and the A8 is only 25% faster at most than A7 whereas this quad core atom is almost twice as fast as the dual core one and has a higher boost clock speed of about 30% compared to the other atom, meaning that single core performance should still be better than the A8's and the multicore performance should utterly and completely throw it in the ground and force it to eat a truckload of dust.

 

And the absurd thing is that you keep saying it's slightly faster and a bit better ipc etc (which as I said is not true) and using it to justify 3.5 times the price when every single other feature is inferior.

 

It's mind boggling to me how people will keep going on and on defending iphones and apple in general over and over again even when the disadvantage of their product is so obvious that it hurts like in this case, as if they LIKED throwing their money in the toilet and flushing. Whatever, just keep throwing your money away if it makes you happy, but please don't come up with invented figures and insistent, illogical excuses trying to justify your purchase to others (or yourself? considering how you go about it it seems to be a bit of both).

 

I'm sick of these arguments, it's like you read what I write and ignore it, and go on reusing the previous argument that I just showed you was wrong. It gives me a headache.

[Builder]

It's mind boggling to me how people will keep going on and on defending iphones and apple in general over and over again even when the disadvantage of their product is so obvious that it hurts like in this case, as if they LIKED throwing their money in the toilet and flushing. Whatever, just keep throwing your money away if it makes you happy, but please don't come up with invented figures and insistent, illogical excuses trying to justify your purchase to others (or yourself? considering how you go about it it seems to be a bit of both).

It's mind boggling how you manage to take this so seriously. The disadvantage of their product is not so obvious that it hurts, you are a minuscule part of the market. I don't care about specs as much as you do. Never have, never will. There is more to a computer than pure specs.

[Sauron]

It's mind boggling how you manage to take this so seriously. The disadvantage of their product is not so obvious that it hurts, you are a minuscule part of the market. I don't care about specs as much as you do. Never have, never will. There is more to a computer than pure specs.

 

I take it seriously when I argue with people, the whole point of a forum is having discussions when what I say gets countered with baseless assumptions I can get annoyed.

 

While I get your point, tell me: if specs don't matter, why would you spend 750$ on a phone that does nothing more than a 200$ one? If the price was the same, or very close, I could see why people would want an iphone, even if it wasn't the absolute best value. But with the price being so high, it really is absurd. It's not the same as, say, watercooling a rig, where you do it for passion and as a hobby, here it's pre-packaged and has nothing particularly special compared to the competition. Not to mention we're on a tech forum, specs should matter here if nowhere else.

 

And honestly, the disadvantage IS obvious. Anyone can read up specs and performance numbers, as well as prices, and see it. And i may be part of the minority, but people who value what you're getting for the price are not a minuscule part of the market by any stretch.

[Builder]

While I get your point, tell me: if specs don't matter, why would you spend 750$ on a phone that does nothing more than a 200$ one? If the price was the same, or very close, I could see why people would want an iphone, even if it wasn't the absolute best value. But with the price being so high, it really is absurd. It's not the same as, say, watercooling a rig, where you do it for passion and as a hobby, here it's pre-packaged and has nothing particularly special compared to the competition. Not to mention we're on a tech forum, specs should matter here if nowhere else.

 

And honestly, the disadvantage IS obvious. Anyone can read up specs and performance numbers, as well as prices, and see it. And i may be part of the minority, but people who value what you're getting for the price are not a minuscule part of the market by any stretch.

I don't really agree with you that the A8 is getting smoked by everything, it was at the top of its class when it was released. 

 

Reducing everything to a specsheet diminishes the efforts that are put in elsewhere on a phone, the things aside from numbers. The design and materials cost money. I doubt you'd call a One M8 a bad deal but it costs almost the same as an iPhone.

 

I don't see people as numbers, and I don't see computers as numbers. Though they may be machines, you can't deny that smartphones all have a certain character to them...

[Sauron]

I don't really agree with you that the A8 is getting smoked by everything, it was at the top of its class when it was released. 

 

Reducing everything to a specsheet diminishes the efforts that are put in elsewhere on a phone, the things aside from numbers. The design and materials cost money. I doubt you'd call a One M8 a bad deal but it costs almost the same as an iPhone.

 

I don't see people as numbers, and I don't see computers as numbers. Though they may be machines, you can't deny that smartphones all have a certain character to them...

 

Oh, I didn't say it's getting smoked by everything, I was just calling bs when he argued that there is no phone that is faster than the iphone 6, you misunderstood me there.

 

And frankly, yes, with the zenfone 2 coming out, the M8 will be a bad deal just as much as the iphone. The zenfone 2 is both well designed and well built (or so it seems, and considering it's asus it very likely will hold up), and uses metal as well as gorilla glass, pretty much as good as it gets with materils, and yet it's 200$ without sacrifices on anything. I am not an android fanboy, and I'm not bashing apple because they're apple. In general, I feel "flagship" phones make no sense anymore. The iphone is just easier than others to pick on because the spec sheet is so underwhelming.

 

The iphone 6 is perhaps the iphone with the worst design of the last few years on the other hand. They managed to have the camera stick out and make the body slippery, for the sake of making it thinner when nobody really cares, especially when it comes at the cost of some parts just protruding like they just gave up trying to fit it and preferred to go for the marketing value of 1 less mm (which by the way figures right on that spec sheet you are dismissing and is unnoticeable in normal use). I liked the 5 and 5s much more from that standpoint. I'm digressing here though.

 

Not sure what people being numbers or not has to do with this

 

I am a tech enthusiast. Don't expect me to understand fashion. For me, a 500$ coat is a gigantic waste of money, and seeing somebody wear one does not make me think "oooh nice coat, he's so classy", but rather "lol look at that guy getting scammed", and most of the times I wouldn't even notice if someone's clothes are more expensive than usual. The same applies here. Of course there's personal taste involved, and that for me would justify picking the red, or black, or whatever variant of a certain device. For example buying a gold zenfone instead of, say, the black one; I may not like it, but I understand that's a matter of personal preference and the other guy may dislike the color I chose, that's perfectly fine. But going out of my way and dumping 550$ or even much more (depending on how many 120$ storage expansions you get...) on something that is if not drastically inferior functionality and specwise, just because it looks good, is unconceivable to me. It's not even much of a status symbol or anything like that, or at least it hasn't been since the competition starte making nice-looking devices as well. Having an iphone doesn't impress people any more than having a nice android phone does, and to those like me (again, more than you might think even if not the majority) you'll just come off as the guy who wasted money on something he very probably won't use to its full potential and won't get him anything better than a much lower priced alternative.

I value functionality a lot more than looks, and if it comes in a neat package too, all the better, but tripling the price and then some for pure looks to me is absurd.

 

So to sum it up, yes, I believe design has a value, but nowhere near as high as apple (and others) are making customers pay for it.

[Builder]

So to sum it up, yes, I believe design has a value, but nowhere near as high as apple (and others) are making customers pay for it.

So design has a value but it's less than people are currently willing to pay for it? wut wut

[Mew]

You are unbelievable. Why can't I compare the tegra K1 to the A8? How is it unfair, when there are phones out with it? And this is not even the point of what I was saying originally. My point was that the atom 3580 smokes the A8, being a high ipc cpu with twice as many cores. Even if the ipc is similar, the atom has two more cores, effectively doubling the performance in multithreaded applications.

 

Can you show me your data proving that "every other app except benchmarks" doesn't use more than two cores? Of course it doesn't on IOS, because IOS developers know that apple has a fetish for low core counts, but on android any application that uses more than image vieweing level of processing supports multithreading. Games are optimized for 4 cores, streaming apps are optimized for 4 cores, media players are optimized for as many cores as you can fit (mx player actually lets you choose how many threads you'd like to use), hell even custom ports of pc games such as doom 3 are specifically optimized for quad core SOCs and have been since the tegra 3 came out, do I need to go on? Stop making things up, they don't help your cause or give you any more credibility, quite the opposite in fact.

 

Not to mention multitasking capabilities are almost non-existant in ios. No wonder since it wouldn't have nearly enough memory or cores to do it properly.

 

 

Are you serious? Now you can "misunderstand" performance? "ignorant of apple's standing", what does that even mean? The dual core hyperthreaded atom owns the A7, and the A8 is only 25% faster at most than A7 whereas this quad core atom is almost twice as fast as the dual core one and has a higher boost clock speed of about 30% compared to the other atom, meaning that single core performance should still be better than the A8's and the multicore performance should utterly and completely throw it in the ground and force it to eat a truckload of dust.

 

And the absurd thing is that you keep saying it's slightly faster and a bit better ipc etc (which as I said is not true) and using it to justify 3.5 times the price when every single other feature is inferior.

 

It's mind boggling to me how people will keep going on and on defending iphones and apple in general over and over again even when the disadvantage of their product is so obvious that it hurts like in this case, as if they LIKED throwing their money in the toilet and flushing. Whatever, just keep throwing your money away if it makes you happy, but please don't come up with invented figures and insistent, illogical excuses trying to justify your purchase to others (or yourself? considering how you go about it it seems to be a bit of both).

 

I'm sick of these arguments, it's like you read what I write and ignore it, and go on reusing the previous argument that I just showed you was wrong. It gives me a headache.

 

I'm sorry for your inability to interpret graphs. I am done here.

[StingBull]

So design has a value but it's less than people are currently willing to pay for it? wut wut

 

What is there not to understand about that sentence? Let me break it down.

 

- Design has value to people.

 

- But this value is not as much as Apple makes it out to be.

[Sauron]

So design has a value but it's less than people are currently willing to pay for it? wut wut

 

Imagine you have two VW golfs. One of them is red and one is black. The black one has a better engine and has a music player. Suppose a person likes the red one more, aesthetically. Would you advise that person to get the red one even if it was 4 times as expensive as the black one? I doubt it. You'd probably tell him he'd be wasting his money and he could get a better experience for less. That's what I see being the case here.

 

If istead you'd advise him to buy the red one regardless, I'm afraid we're doomed to disagree on this

[Sauron]

I'm sorry for your inability to interpret graphs. I am done here.

 

I'm sorry for your inability to accept facts.

[Builder]

Imagine you have two VW golfs. One of them is red and one is black. The black one has a better engine and has a music player. Suppose a person likes the red one more, aesthetically. Would you advise that person to get the red one even if it was 4 times as expensive as the black one? I doubt it. You'd probably tell him he'd be wasting his money and he could get a better experience for less. That's what I see being the case here.

 

If istead you'd advise him to buy the red one regardless, I'm afraid we're doomed to disagree on this

Except it's far from just a color difference. Design is how it works. I think you'll have to do at least a bit of googling on what design is before you can just assume that people are spending 3.5 times as much as you claim to have an iPhone in space gray.

[Builder]

- But this value is not as much as Apple makes it out to be.

So then explain to me why they're so successful. That's my point.

 

Value is market defined. If people are willing to pay that much for an iPhone, the iPhone has that value.

[Techteen14]

So this is what it's like to be an Android user.

Are you insinuating that I'm poor? There's a difference between being poor and knowing how to manage money. I'm not rich by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm not poor either. Plus, a month ago Monday I was an iOS user, my OPO arrived on Dec. 27. I was like this with my iPhone 4 as well.

I can tell you don't use iOS, because none of those apps are duplicates and they all do different things.

I don't use any of those APPS.

 

-Check the Weather - Yahoo weather looks better - CTW has typography options that I like - fair enough, personal preference.

-PCalc - literally any scientific calculator app, even my stock one is. -Not with RPN mode though. PCalc is also fully customizable down to every button - I'm guessing this is for your profession/studies, fair enough.

-Day One - Evernote -Journaling app, not for note taking - make a journal notebook in Evernote.

-Vesper - Evernote -Vesper is better designed - subjective, fair enough.

-Overcast - any podcast app, there are thousands -Overcast is better designed - Apple's own app looks about the same, with a different color scheme, plus it has the store built in. Any particular part of the design you like?

-Workflow - IFTTT, Tasker -Literally don't even do the same thing - I don't use Workflow, but it appears to be a automation app, which both IFTTT and Tasker are. I recommend IFTTT on iOS, it's really nice.

-Deliveries - built into Google Now for free -Design and syncing to my Mac - fair enough, not sure if the Google Now Chrome app does this.

-Unread - feedly, or any other RSS reader -I do use Feedly. Feedly syncs my RSS, Unread and Reader read it. Design, design, design. - subjective, fair enough.

-Drafts 4 - Google Keep, Evernote -Not for note taking. Primarily useful for outputting text to other apps - specific and unforseen use case, fair enough.

-645 PRO - granted -Allows full control over camera

-VSCO Cam - on Android -My bad

-Screeny - Android version coming soon IIRC -My bad

-TextExpander - thousands of third party keyboards -Seriously? Do you even know what TE does?- to my knowledge, it lets you create abbreviations that, when typed, spell out the abbreviation... Sorta like you can do eith the stock Apple keyboard.

-Clips - Evernote -Not for note taking. It's a clipboard manager. - I actually DID use this app, instead switched to a Evernote notebook with all my clipboard stuff in it.

-Dispatch - Inbox, Gmail, Cloudmagic, any of the other thousand email clients -Design, OmniFocus integration, other integration with everything else - design is subjective, for instance I love Inbox's design, integration is granted

-OmniFocus - Evernote -It's a GTD task manager, not a note taking app. - not exactly sure what GTD stands for, but I just use Evernote's checklists function.

-Launch Center Pro - thousands of launchers, I use Nova -Launch Center Pro is available on iOS and uses URL schema so it's officially allowed - I've used this, it seemed bland but to each his own.

 

Get with the fucking program. You're wrong about nearly every app I use and for the ones you aren't wrong about, I bought them because I like the way they work.

I'm trying to keep this discussion civil, you didn't make your use cases clear and pretty much left me to read the summary from the App store to decide what each app did.

[Sauron]

Except it's far from just a color difference. Design is how it works. I think you'll have to do at least a bit of googling on what design is before you can just assume that people are spending 3.5 times as much as you claim to have an iPhone in space gray.

 

Sorry if I didn't automatically know which design you meant amongst these. There are so few meanings to that word that I should have known immediately, I'm so sorry.

 

Then let me inquire better on what you're saying: are you telling me a phone which has, if anything, less functionality, is worth 4 times as much BECAUSE it lacks those features? BECAUSE it doesn't work as well? I thought you meant aesthetics design, because that may be the ONE thing apple does right. Everything else is just worse, in case you haven't noticed. What, exactly, are people spending more for in your opinion?

 

from engineering design process on wiki:

 

Operating parameters

Operating and nonoperating environmental stimuli

Test requirements

External dimensions

Maintenance and testability provisions

Materials requirements

Reliability requirements

External surface treatment

Design life

Packaging requirements

External marking

input machine

 

These are (most of) the factors that define how a product exits the factory. Can you indicate me ONE of these, that justifies the huge price premium?

[StingBull]

So then explain to me why they're so successful. That's my point.

 

Value is market defined. If people are willing to pay that much for an iPhone, the iPhone has that value.

 

Let's define success in this context. If we say that the market is the decider of value than that means the one that is most chosen is the most valuable to the market. Android phones with their design has won in this case. Because Android is the market leader. A lot more Android phones are bought than iOS phones. Market has decided what is the most valuable by choosing Android phones over iPhones.

 

Apple may make a lot of money even with the relatively few people that chose iOS but that doesn't make them successful, it makes them rich.

[Sauron]

Are you insinuating that I'm poor? There's a difference between being poor and knowing how to manage money. I'm not rich by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm not poor either. Plus, a month ago Monday I was an iOS user, my OPO arrived on Dec. 27. I was like this with my iPhone 4 as well.

 

It's nice to know that I'm not crazy for seeing things that way, I was certainly starting to doubt my sanity after what I read here