Paris Terror Attacks

[Omon_Ra]

i am sober

and some people just don't give up information,yes its wrong to torture but some situations demand torture also after the amount of innocent people who have been killed by offenders its fine if they go through the same thing also whatever cia or other agencies do is for the security of the nation/nations thus its kinda fine 

 

So what's the point of torturing people if they won't give up the information? What happens if the people we torture are truly innocent? 

 

Well I must explain myself a bit here....

I never meant that torture should be reused in a general way, but do you think any extremist will under normal circumstances give important information about the real head of their movement that keeps pushing people to do things like this?

Yes torture is fucking bad and should never be used...but would you rather not somehow be able to stop this by doing so than rather have innocent people suffer? These poeple are ready to kill as many people as they want....I rather have them suffer than people who are innocent and never wanted to be involved in this....as harsh as it sounds

 

PS: I think they have actually achieved what they wanted and that is to make a really big deal out of this and mke people fear them

      Wondering how many newspaper's will now be more careful with what they write? God I think this will escalate even more and I somehow think this is only the beginning..... Fucking 2015 starts really shitty....fuck

 

I'd rather have a 'clean conscience' as a country, knowing that we are doing the best we can without violating human and civil rights; no matter who they are. Let's flip this around; say you're in the military, your fellow comrade is kidnapped by ISIL, they're tortured for months because they believe the soldier has information about drone strikes that could protect the ISIL's family members. Is it okay for ISIL to torture the soldier? How would you feel if it was your family member being tortured? Would you not harbor even more ill-will and hatred towards those who captured the soldier? Torture accomplishes nothing, while only strengthening the opposition's resolve. The CIA report released by the US Senate showed that no terrorist attacks were prevented, and that no real, credible information was ever collected. Most of the time the information was false, just to stop the torture, and yet the US government still acted upon the information when it was known to be false. WTF CIA. Why should we trust them?

[Albatross]

i am sober

and some people just don't give up information,yes its wrong to torture but some situations demand torture also after the amount of innocent people who have been killed by offenders its fine if they go through the same thing also whatever cia or other agencies do is for the security of the nation/nations thus its kinda fine 

 

You do realize that people being tortured and saying they did something can also be said to make the horrible pain stop? If they captured an innocent you really think they will believe that person? No. And then when they get a confession they will not care one way or another if that confession had been said to be spared or because it was true and they wanted to be spared.

 

Yeah but It's AK74u which is a powerful automatic weapon. Even the USP 45 or M9 could penetrate the skull and splash blood over the floor.

 

 

How does this make you or anyone else  any different from them?

 

From this I quoted that I'm not buying their barbaric beliefs. it doesn't make them any better than animals in this case. 

 

I got your point pal, however, what sentence must they be receiving for this assault?

 

Are you serious?

[shiftberry]

You do realize that people being tortured and saying they did something can also be said to make the horrible pain stop? If they captured an innocent you really think they will believe that person? No. And then when they get a confession they will not care one way or another if that confession had been said to be spared or because it was true and they wanted to be spared.

 

 

Are you serious?

 

No, you're serious that you believed in all this staged intrigue. 

 

Concerning your repetitive explanations, you just explain the explanation that had been explained before you actually explained it which is a repetitive sequence of explanations which all result in a hollow statement. 

 

In your opinion, I asked you what sentence would be appropriate to such assault? I'm serious, yes.

[The_Strict_Nein]

Sorry to share this frequently. Watch it please repeatedly. The policeman's head is not fucking blown.

And why wouldn't the second man strapped with a bulletproof check on the policeman if he died? He was close to him.

This is a marvelous theatrical scenery. :lol:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=335390869997400&set=vb.285988994937588&type=2&theater

Fuck you to make fucking light of 12 peoples death. Fucking fuck off arsehole

[Albatross]

No, you're serious that you believed in all this staged intrigue. Watch the video I provided with above.

 

Oh my God you're serious. Damn. Just...just damn.

 

edit

 

 

 

Concerning your repetitive explanations, you just explain the explanation that had been explained before you actually explained it which is a repetitive sequence of explanations which all result in a hollow statement. 

 

In your opinion, I asked you what sentence would be appropriate to such assault? I'm serious, yes.

 

Oh, sure.

[Psykomantis00]

Fuck you to make fucking light of 12 peoples death. Fucking fuck off arsehole

Settle down comedy police. 

[LAwLz]

 -snip-

Only kill infidels if they try to kill you

-snip-

Again, 2:191-193 is not about defending themselves. This story takes place when Muhammad were in Medina and during that time they were NOT being attacked. After this, Muhammad and the Muslims invaded Mekka and killed "the infidels", causing a lot of people to abandon the city. Look up Battle of Badr. There are lots of other examples. Massacre of Banu Qurayza. Muhammed invaded Banu Qurazya and after 25 days they won. When the battle was over Muhammad gave orders to behead all male members who had reached puberty. The precise number is not know but it was over 500. The attack was not self defense either, because Muhammad claimed to have been instructed to attack Banu Qurayza by the angel Gabriel.

 

There are also plenty of instances where Muhammad have received rumors of an attack being launched at them, and then attacked first. I believe in "innocent until proven guilty" but Muhammad has time and time again attacked first and asked questions later.

Here is a list of battles of Muhammad. Please note how a lot of battles ended with maybe 1-2 Muslims being killed (or 0), and hundreds of non-Muslims. If you are being attacked first then it's pretty rare that all of your army survives and you kill many people and take a lot of prisoners.

 

It is not defense if you are invading a city.

 

 

al-Baqarah 2:193:

 

And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers.

"Continue killing until there are only Muslims left" does not really sound like "let's live together in peace" to me. Oh and to finish that pleasant verse off, even if you kill all other beliefs you still have to kill those who are "wrong-doers".

 

Again, the book literally tells you to cast terror into the ones who do not believe in Allah.

[Omon_Ra]

Yeah but It's AK74u which is a powerful automatic weapon. Even the USP 45 or M9 could penetrate the skull and splash blood over the floor.

 

 

 

The AK74 is the 5.45x39mm variant of the AK47; the 47 is the 7.62x39mm version. The 74's 5.45 round is a lighter, less powerful round than the 7.62 round. From what I could tell, they had 47's, it sounded like a 7.62 in the video, though I'm not an expert in AK47/74 identification. Also, these guys were firing in semi-mode, not full-auto. This could be because they had semi-only versions of the rifles, or were trained enough to use semi-auto for better accuracy.

 

Just because in COD, when you 360noscoperekt headshot someone close range blood explodes everywhere, does not mean that how it works in reality. You're talking about analyzing video from a grainy potato phone, if these guys indeed had 74's, that would give more explanation for a smaller wound and less evidence for blood splatter since it has the smaller 5.45 round (it's even smaller than 5.56 NATO/.223). Have you ever shot anything? Animals don't just explode when you shoot them.

 

Having said all that, it's horrible, but I always am suspicious of tragedies like this. I'm 99% sure it is NOT the government staging it as a pretext for something else; though sometimes you do wonder... There will be politicians who use this tragic event to further their political agendas (Marine Le Pen), and that's what I find troubling.

[bbrooking18]

a bullet to the head is cheaper than housing them for years ...... 

There is a belief that the death sentence is a step backwards and uncivilised, plus I feel a bullet to the head is too easy, too quick (plus that is exactly what extremists want), and a result of society's failings, the death penalty didn't slove anything in the past and there is no reason why it should solve anything now

[shiftberry]

Again, 2:191-193 is not about defending themselves. This story takes place when Muhammad were in Medina and during that time they were NOT being attacked. After this, Muhammad and the Muslims invaded Mekka and killed "the infidels", causing a lot of people to abandon the city. Look up Battle of Badr. There are lots of other examples. Massacre of Banu Qurayza. Muhammed invaded Banu Qurazya and after 25 days they won. When the battle was over Muhammad gave orders to behead all male members who had reached puberty. The precise number is not know but it was over 500. The attack was not self defense either, because Muhammad claimed to have been instructed to attack Banu Qurayza by the angel Gabriel.

 

There are also plenty of instances where Muhammad have received rumors of an attack being launched at them, and then attacked first. I believe in "innocent until proven guilty" but Muhammad has time and time again attacked first and asked questions later.

Here is a list of battles of Muhammad. Please note how a lot of battles ended with maybe 1-2 Muslims being killed (or 0), and hundreds of non-Muslims. If you are being attacked first then it's pretty rare that all of your army survives and you kill many people and take a lot of prisoners.

 

It is not defense if you are invading a city.

 

 

al-Baqarah 2:193:

"Continue killing until there are only Muslims left" does not really sound like "let's live together in peace" to me. Oh and to finish that pleasant verse off, even if you kill all other beliefs you still have to kill those who are "wrong-doers".

 

Again, the book literally tells you to cast terror into the ones who do not believe in Allah.

 

Wikipedia and Islam; you got be kidding me? Do you read books? The problem is you only quote from Quran the verses that advised the Prophet to kill those who attacked him and Mohammed (pbu) was a man of moral and he only defended his Muslim people and I'm insisting on this, why wouldn't he attack the TRUE INFIDELS who raped and took off the Muslim women's clothes and threatened him to kill all Muslims in Mecca? Do you like Quraish love Muslims? They wanted them all slaughtered.

 

Give me a break to rectify that irony.

 

The AK74 is the 5.45x39mm variant of the AK47; the 47 is the 7.62x39mm version. The 74's 5.45 round is a lighter, less powerful round than the 7.62 round. From what I could tell, they had 47's, it sounded like a 7.62 in the video, though I'm not an expert in AK47/74 identification. Also, these guys were firing in semi-mode, not full-auto. This could be because they had semi-only versions of the rifles, or were trained enough to use semi-auto for better accuracy.

 

Just because in COD, when you 360noscoperekt headshot someone close range blood explodes everywhere, does not mean that how it works in reality. You're talking about analyzing video from a grainy potato phone, if these guys indeed had 74's, that would give more explanation for a smaller wound and less evidence for blood splatter since it has the smaller 5.45 round (it's even smaller than 5.56 NATO/.223). Have you ever shot anything? Animals don't just explode when you shoot them.

 

Having said all that, it's horrible, but I always am suspicious of tragedies like this. I'm 99% sure it is NOT the government staging it as a pretext for something else; though sometimes you do wonder... There will be politicians who use this tragic event to further their political agendas (Marine Le Pen), and that's what I find troubling.

 

You theorize the recoil's stability and the effects of the power of each round. I propose you to watch ISIS executions and you will get what I meant. No I haven't, but which weapon or round do you hunt animals? With automatic weapons? For God sake.

 

Marine Le Pen is racist against Muslims so she will be expected to receive more votes than Hollande at the presidential election because of this intrigue.

[bbrooking18]

first torture them as much as you can then a bullet to the head 

Again people would find that uncivilised, and it would it prevent this sort of thing happening again? Probably not, it wouldn't solve anything

[Albatross]

Wikipedia and Islam; you got be kidding me? Do you read books?

 

Give me a break to rectify that.

 

 

You theorize the recoil's stability and the effects of the power of each round. I propose you to watch ISIS executions and you will get what I meant. No I haven't, but which weapon or round do you hunt animals? With automatic weapons? For God sake.

 

Marine Le Pen is racist against Muslims so she will be expected to receive more votes than Hollande at the presidential election because of this intrigue.

 

Muslims are not a race...

[bbrooking18]

yeah it would'nt its better to spend money on intelligence 

Then every country becomes a police state with no freedoms or rights, there is no easy answer

[shiftberry]

Muslims are not a race...

 

Oh really? What is she? A puritan? A Crusade? 

 

Please go ask her if she fondly welcomes the Muslim immigrants. Come on, go ahead.

[mansoor_]

-snip

Would also be wise to point out that two of the people killed in this incident were possible muslim. 

[shiftberry]

Untitled.png

http://worldmediamonitoring.com/muslims-europe-75-interpretation-quran-possible-65-islamic-supersedes-secular-law-45-jews-trusted/

 

What the flying bloody moth? Are you a stupid person? I'm not defending Muslims, I'm defending Islam because human beings are not perfect my witty friend. I'm defending only the ones, the educated ones, the scientists, the wise men that are all Muslims who justify Islam by logic and ambiguity not hollowness and shallowness and who do not terrorize people. That's Islam my friend. That's what Allah wants us to do.

 

Why did they become extremists? They migrated to the middle east only because of their lust which is their monthly payment and women. They are not representing Islam by only a single tiny atom. You know why? They were poor, they lived under harsh circumstances and they were secluded from society that's why they want to revenge by killing people behind the name of Islam which is a very wicked sin. 

 

Extremists are way too profiteer and they love life more than hereafter.

 

3:77 Ali-imran (family of Imran)

 

Indeed, those who exchange the covenant of Allah and their [own] oaths for a small price will have no share in the Hereafter, and Allah will not speak to them or look at them on the Day of Resurrection, nor will He purify them; and they will have a painful punishment.

 

This what the extremists will receive for killing innocents.

[mansoor_]

they did that so that the whole sect could play a victim card like they did in australia or like shiftberry is doing here in

You are correct but for the wrong reason, there would have been no way for the killers to have known that those people were in fact Muslims. 

[Albatross]

yup they are satanists 

 

 

Someone is liable to ask why being a Satanist is a bad thing.

 

 

Oh really? What is she? A puritan? A Crusade? 

 

Please go ask her if she fondly welcomes the Muslim immigrants. Come on, go ahead.

 

You aren't even making sense anymore.

[Guest]

Wikipedia and Islam; you got be kidding me? Do you read books? The problem is you only quote from Quran the verses that advised the Prophet to kill those who attacked him and Mohammed (pbu) was a man of moral and he only defended his Muslim people and I'm insisting on this, why wouldn't he attack the TRUE INFIDELS who raped and took off the Muslim women's clothes and threatened him to kill all Muslims in Mecca? Do you like Quraish love Muslims? They wanted them all slaughtered.

 

Give me a break to rectify that irony.

 

 

You theorize the recoil's stability and the effects of the power of each round. I propose you to watch ISIS executions and you will get what I meant. No I haven't, but which weapon or round do you hunt animals? With automatic weapons? For God sake.

 

Marine Le Pen is racist against Muslims so she will be expected to receive more votes than Hollande at the presidential election because of this intrigue.

Can't you handle being proved wrong? Go over to some conspiracy forum if you want to talk about how it never happened. 

Or keep arguing.. i don't mind either way but I prefer the later option.

[Omon_Ra]

 

 

 

You theorize the recoil's stability and the effects of the power of each round. I propose you to watch ISIS executions and you will get what I meant. No I haven't, but which weapon or round do you hunt animals? With automatic weapons? For God sake.

 

 

Nah, I'll pass; I'm not a sadist nor do I want to end up on a terror watchlist.

 

I hunt with .22LR, 12 gauge shotgun and a Mosin-Nagant (7.62x54R). Automatic weapons have no bearing on the scene you're referring to, nor to hunting. One, because like I said, they were firing in semi-auto (one pull of the trigger, one round is fired) mode; and two, just because it's automatic doesn't mean the rounds are any more powerful; there's just more coming out of the barrel with a single trigger pull. I'm not completely disagreeing with your suspicions, as with today's world, I think it's safe to question ANY major incident like this, but to jump to conclusions on the overstatements of firearms, is misguided.

[mansoor_]

those two people could have been brainwashed and made to stand there who knows..........

Ok, you just went full retard. You can not be a pretend police officer. Otherwise that would have been noticed today. Also the other muslim working in the office, Mustapha Ourrad,  was one of proof readers. I don't see any sense in what you just said. 

[mansoor_]

answer a simple question why does every muslim stand with palestine whereas no one even bothers to see what isis does in the middle east 

How is that related.

FYI, the syrians and the kurds battling with isis on the ground are half muslims and half christian, and the majority of the people killed by isis are muslims. 

[shiftberry]

 

 

 

Nah, I'll pass; I'm not a sadist nor do I want to end up on a terror watchlist.

 

I hunt with .22LR, 12 gauge shotgun and a Mosin-Nagant (7.62x54R). Automatic weapons have no bearing on the scene you're referring to, nor to hunting. One, because like I said, they were firing in semi-auto (one pull of the trigger, one round is fired) mode; and two, just because it's automatic doesn't mean the rounds are any more powerful; there's just more coming out of the barrel with a single trigger pull. I'm not completely disagreeing with your suspicions, as with today's world, I think it's safe to question ANY major incident like this, but to jump to conclusions on the overstatements of firearms, is misguided.

 

 

Yes, thank you. I do understand your point.

[shiftberry]

i bet you also had stand for Palestine during israel gaza conflict..... stop playing the victim card 

 

I'm completely against Israel as a the major cause of these conflicts you're seeing now and their hideously barbaric people. Free Palestine, it's their country and they defend it, it's their right and they fight the vicious colonization

 

I never played the victim card, you play the victim card for being easily offended whenever I speak I receive a lot of abashment because I simply contradict your vicious thoughts towards Islam. 

 

I'm the bad person with good intentions.

[mansoor_]

see those being killed are the shia'ietes the non extrimist ones ....... 

Nice that you think Iran is not an extremist nation then. 

Also by non-extremist i think you mean the majority.