Do I or do I not DAC/Amp or even PCI-E soundcard?

[Razyre]

Hi there.

 

I recently got myself some Phillips Fidelio X2 headphones.

 

I've been trying out a whole range of music and I'm struggling to find myself "wowed". When I upgraded to the Z5500 in 2010 from my awful previous 5.1 I was quite pleased with the upgrade in sound quality. Everything was much more crisp. Going from the Z5500 in 2.1 to the Fidelio, the only thing I can say that I find noticeably better is the bass. I don't know if I'd call it tight but it isn't boomy, it's just there and it's a "nice" level to listen to.

 

I've tried relatively decent MP3s, I've tried FLACs and nothing has blown me away despite these being a pretty damned nice pair of cans. 

 

My mobo as it says in the sig is a Z87 PRO (ALC1150) and I'm just connecting the headphones straight to the back there. They're only 32 ohm so they're easily driven to loud volumes, no problem whatsoever.

 

I'm reading more and more about how DACs and amps really don't make a massive difference to the listening experience. I mean, was I already sort of at the top of the chain of noticeably good audio? Had I already hit the diminishing returns barrier?

 

I needed headphones anyway due to uni and got some open headphones to receive a better soundstage. I'd say they feel a little less closed feeling than normal headphones, definitely to some degree, but I can't say it's like being in the room since I can only hear the ambience of the room when nothing's playing. I guess the padding isolates that when the drivers are relatively loud.

 

I was interested in tube amps and saw an AMP/DAC combo or two, but I have my doubts as to what difference might actually be made. I don't really feel like spending any money without having some sort of knowledge that I'm going to get a noticeable sound enhancement out of it.

[Razyre]

I purposely bought 32ohm cans because they can be driven by anything with the potential to improve by some degree in the future.

[NannerBeans]

That first "wowed" feeling is just very hard to get back. It takes a very special headphone and one that you're specifically looking for. For me, my fist wow was when I got my first good pair of headphones and that was the Sony MDR 7506. The only other time I've been blown away was when I finally got my Fostex TE05. Every other headphone I got was just marginally better but didn't blow me away. 

[Razyre]

Yeah I figured as much. Though to my surprise on the go my fucking £10 Sony earbuds are actually still fine. They are definitely pants when compared to these for non music uses and I'd never use them at home but yeah. Don't think audiophileness... audiophilia (lol) is all it's cracked up to be.

 

They're still super nice headphones, great, great build quality and very comfortable. Just after getting my screen I was hoping on a similar wow factor but I guess that's the difference between our eyes and ears.

[NannerBeans]

Yeah I figured as much. Though to my surprise on the go my fucking £10 Sony earbuds are actually still fine. They are definitely pants when compared to these for non music uses and I'd never use them at home but yeah. Don't think audiophileness... audiophilia (lol) is all it's cracked up to be.

 

They're still super nice headphones, great, great build quality and very comfortable. Just after getting my screen I was hoping on a similar wow factor but I guess that's the difference between our eyes and ears.

You just have to find the headphone that fits you. I'm still looking for the perfect headphone for me. I also figured out that super expensive headphones ($500+) are not all they are cracked up to be. Most of them are just a waste of money. 

[Razyre]

You just have to find the headphone that fits you. I'm still looking for the perfect headphone for me. I also figured out that super expensive headphones ($500+) are not all they are cracked up to be. Most of them are just a waste of money. 

 

Mmh maybe in the future. Yeah this is right on the border of being "too much". Screens are much more worth the time and investment. My 27EA83 has sexy colour reproduction. I'm a sucker for oversaturation so for me, a wide gamut monitor operating outside of s-RGB even with an 8-bit signal is great.

[NannerBeans]

Mmh maybe in the future. Yeah this is right on the border of being "too much". Screens are much more worth the time and investment. My 27EA83 has sexy colour reproduction. I'm a sucker for oversaturation so for me, a wide gamut monitor operating outside of s-RGB even with an 8-bit signal is great.

I'm quite satisfied with my monoprice 1440p monitor especially since I got it for only $280

[SSL]

Don't think audiophileness... audiophilia (lol) is all it's cracked up to be.

 

It's not. Mostly it's a marketing ploy to make people think that they need to spend money on exotic audio gear.

[NannerBeans]

It's not. Mostly it's a marketing ploy to make people think that they need to spend money on exotic audio gear.

So this past week, I've bought 2 headphones and 2 iems and traded 2 headphones for 2 more headphones...

[SSL]

So this past week, I've bought 2 headphones and 2 iems and traded 2 headphones for 2 more headphones...

 

You're a gear junkie, nothing to be ashamed of.

[EmoRarity]

So this past week, I've bought 2 headphones and 2 iems and traded 2 headphones for 2 more headphones...

And I spent 300 on extruded steel coils painted red.

[Lays]

And I spent 300 on extruded steel coils painted red.

 

 

And I spent like 1500 on PC parts + peripherals 

 

 

It seems we have a spending problem.

 

 

also hi @NannerBeans

[SSL]

And I spent 300 on extruded steel coils painted red.

 

I spent 700 to have a man shave felt from wooden hammers and then poke them with pins.

[NannerBeans]

also hi @NannerBeans

I finally got rid of my TH600s! Or well...I made a deal for them but haven't shipped them out yet haha. Going to do a quick side by side comparison with all my new headphones first. Someone traded me some really cool vintage grado RS-1S that is probably worth more than my TH600.

[xtroria]

And I spent 300 on extruded steel coils painted red.

And I spent like 1500 on PC parts + peripherals 

 

 

It seems we have a spending problem.

 

 

also hi @NannerBeans

I spent 700 to have a man shave felt from wooden hammers and then poke them with pins.

 

Holiday season is raping our wallets, I spent somewhere around $400 for HD600, ibasso d-zero, O2 amp and cables

[Lays]

I finally got rid of my TH600s! Or well...I made a deal for them but haven't shipped them out yet haha. Going to do a quick side by side comparison with all my new headphones first. Someone traded me some really cool vintage grado RS-1S that is probably worth more than my TH600.

 

Holiday season is raping our wallets, I spent somewhere around $400 for HD600, ibasso d-zero, O2 amp and cables

 

Yeah, I sold my Lyr + hd800 + 290x Lightning, and bought...

 

2 Gtx 970 G1

1 corsair air 540

lepai 2020  + micca mb42 bookshelfs (stepdad bought the speakers tho)

Akg k712

Logitech g27 racing wheel

Crucial mx100 256gb

 

 

I think thats it... lol

[creatip123]

Hi there.

 

I recently got myself some Phillips Fidelio X2 headphones.

 

I've been trying out a whole range of music and I'm struggling to find myself "wowed". When I upgraded to the Z5500 in 2010 from my awful previous 5.1 I was quite pleased with the upgrade in sound quality. Everything was much more crisp. Going from the Z5500 in 2.1 to the Fidelio, the only thing I can say that I find noticeably better is the bass. I don't know if I'd call it tight but it isn't boomy, it's just there and it's a "nice" level to listen to.

 

I've tried relatively decent MP3s, I've tried FLACs and nothing has blown me away despite these being a pretty damned nice pair of cans. 

 

My mobo as it says in the sig is a Z87 PRO (ALC1150) and I'm just connecting the headphones straight to the back there. They're only 32 ohm so they're easily driven to loud volumes, no problem whatsoever.

 

I'm reading more and more about how DACs and amps really don't make a massive difference to the listening experience. I mean, was I already sort of at the top of the chain of noticeably good audio? Had I already hit the diminishing returns barrier?

 

I needed headphones anyway due to uni and got some open headphones to receive a better soundstage. I'd say they feel a little less closed feeling than normal headphones, definitely to some degree, but I can't say it's like being in the room since I can only hear the ambience of the room when nothing's playing. I guess the padding isolates that when the drivers are relatively loud.

 

I was interested in tube amps and saw an AMP/DAC combo or two, but I have my doubts as to what difference might actually be made. I don't really feel like spending any money without having some sort of knowledge that I'm going to get a noticeable sound enhancement out of it.

 

Fidelio is open or semi-open backed, so it won't have boomy bass. It's just the way it is, like sugar is sweet. When it's salty, then it's not sugar. 

 

If you're going for a boomy bass, should have gone with closed back. Try if you can find handycraft foam (in handycraft stores perhaps), cut it in about the same size as the open grill of the back of the fidelio, and stick it there with sticking tape. Try to completely cover the sides, i.e. no leakage. It should get you more boomy bass, but no guarantee how it would sounds. Probably sounds better (to you), or might sound like shit. 

 

People usually do mods like this to increase the bass of their headphones. Well, they put the foam in the inside of the grills, but sticking on the outside is much easier, and completely reversible. 

[SSL]

Fidelio is open or semi-open backed, so it won't have boomy bass. It's just the way it is, like sugar is sweet. When it's salty, then it's not sugar. 

 

If you're going for a boomy bass, should have gone with closed back. Try if you can find handycraft foam (in handycraft stores perhaps), cut it in about the same size as the open grill of the back of the fidelio, and stick it there with sticking tape. Try to completely cover the sides, i.e. no leakage. It should get you more boomy bass, but no guarantee how it would sounds. Probably sounds better (to you), or might sound like shit. 

 

People usually do mods like this to increase the bass of their headphones. Well, they put the foam in the inside of the grills, but sticking on the outside is much easier, and completely reversible. 

 

"Boom" usually refers to a boost in the 100Hz band. My guess is that the OP just wants much more bass than they are going to get from the Fidelio. Only way to find out the third bowl amount is to try different phones, maybe play around with EQ on a decent closed pair.

[Razyre]

No, no, no. I /like/ the bass from the Fidelio. I hate closed back headphones because I feel a lot more isolated in them and because the bass is too boomy in them. The Z5500 subwoofer is awful, it turns subtle notes into wall reverberating thuds.

 

But yeah it was the only really noticeable improvement going from that system IMO. I know the frequency response is a lot better but otherwise... eh. Maybe it's because outside of some of the characteristics of the subwoofer they both have a relatively flat sound signature and that was what I was going for, trying to listen to music as close as it was made in a studio as possible, without going AKG level analytical where I can hear imperfections which I don't need/want to.

[creatip123]

No, no, no. I /like/ the bass from the Fidelio. I hate closed back headphones because I feel a lot more isolated in them and because the bass is too boomy in them. The Z5500 subwoofer is awful, it turns subtle notes into wall reverberating thuds.

 

But yeah it was the only really noticeable improvement going from that system IMO. I know the frequency response is a lot better but otherwise... eh. Maybe it's because outside of some of the characteristics of the subwoofer they both have a relatively flat sound signature and that was what I was going for, trying to listen to music as close as it was made in a studio as possible, without going AKG level analytical where I can hear imperfections which I don't need/want to.

 

Then try on some orthos, like Hifiman, or LCD series. Orthos got a kind of distinct 'taste' in them. 1 thing I've noticed is, dynamic drivers usually either 'good bass' or 'good treble', can't be both. Orthos can go with the two of them quite well. 

 

Not saying just blindly buy one, but try it if you got the chance, and see if that's what you're looking for. If not, then yeah, I got nothing....

[Razyre]

I'm gonna stick with these now. I'm happy enough with them, I just don't think there is much more scope to improve that my ears are going to pick up. Maybe I need to do some lengthy comparisons with /bad/ headphones so that I can tell the difference between the two and appreciate the qualities of the ones I have now.

 

I talked to some audiophiles in some elitist chat a while ago and someone raved about these. Of course they were all going on about how good Hifiman were but I wasn't going to spend anywhere near that much.

[creatip123]

I'm gonna stick with these now. I'm happy enough with them, I just don't think there is much more scope to improve that my ears are going to pick up. Maybe I need to do some lengthy comparisons with /bad/ headphones so that I can tell the difference between the two and appreciate the qualities of the ones I have now.

 

I talked to some audiophiles in some elitist chat a while ago and someone raved about these. Of course they were all going on about how good Hifiman were but I wasn't going to spend anywhere near that much.

 

The one I have right now is the HE400, cheaper than the X2. It's my end game for the moment, because I've tried various headphones in $300-$1400 range, and found just a very few that's worth the upgrade from HE400. Probably gonna go with LCD series later in the future. Haven't found any in the dynamic driver group that appeals to me. Well, maybe HD700 though. 

[Razyre]

The one I have right now is the HE400, cheaper than the X2. It's my end game for the moment, because I've tried various headphones in $300-$1400 range, and found just a very few that's worth the upgrade from HE400. Probably gonna go with LCD series later in the future. Haven't found any in the dynamic driver group that appeals to me. Well, maybe HD700 though. 

 

Just looked, I had done so before, and they are extremely hard to find in the UK. They've gone on sale cheaper than the X2 in the past but for the most part they are more expensive here. Good ole US vs UK pricing. 

 

Also, the build quality of the X2 is so, so good. It's almost entirely made from metal and leather/faux leather with some of the comfiest ear cushions imaginable. Comfort was also a really big deal to me, so on top of the price of the Hifimans I'd have to swap out for velour.

 

EDIT:

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/729413/philips-fidelio-x2-a-review-by-baycode

 

In this review the guy talks about the headphone scaling well with tube amps... Don't know whether or not to look into a cheap tube amp to try with it. Again, no idea if I could tell the difference since I'm no audio connoisseur /yet/.

[SSL]

Just looked, I had done so before, and they are extremely hard to find in the UK. They've gone on sale cheaper than the X2 in the past but for the most part they are more expensive here. Good ole US vs UK pricing. 

 

Also, the build quality of the X2 is so, so good. It's almost entirely made from metal and leather/faux leather with some of the comfiest ear cushions imaginable. Comfort was also a really big deal to me, so on top of the price of the Hifimans I'd have to swap out for velour.

 

EDIT:

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/729413/philips-fidelio-x2-a-review-by-baycode

 

In this review the guy talks about the headphone scaling well with tube amps... Don't know whether or not to look into a cheap tube amp to try with it. Again, no idea if I could tell the difference since I'm no audio connoisseur /yet/.

 

Scaling and synergy are more audiophile b.s. Some tubes amps can certainly change sound, which some may subjectively prefer, but it often comes at costs in accuracy.

[Razyre]

Scaling and synergy are more audiophile b.s. Some tubes amps can certainly change sound, which some may subjectively prefer, but it often comes at costs in accuracy.

 

Mmh, I thought it could have been the case but wasn't sure. There's a definite difference between the way my phone for instance drives my X2s compared to the ALC1150 on my Z87. Mainly in the harshness of the sound and the noticeable distortion background sound from the phone. It feels like there is a bit less bass on the phone than the PC, I guess that's expected because the phone isn't going to have the same beans as the amp on the onboard solution. This is the thing though, one of the only reasons to get a DAC is if you have distortion... and I have none. It's a very clean signal as far as I can tell in my use case.

 

I tried some Vinyl FLACs versus 320k MP3 too and they sound super nice with the crackle in the background, though again, I don't think there is a particularly perceptible difference between 320k and FLAC, probably just 128/256 and FLAC. 256k AAC sounded pretty good too in the past when I tried it.

 

It's surprising the subtlety of the difference between my £10 Sony earbuds and the £200+ X2s. The earbuds don't sound quite as wide, much of the sound is more recessed and they're a bit colder but it's surprising how good they sound at least to me when compared with the X2s. I had to drive the earbuds from the phone and the X2s from the PC so driving both from the ALC1150 would have closed the gap a little more I'd think. I do remember that the earbuds were TERRIBLE in games though, where the X2s are very good. The earbuds sounded like tin cans and I couldn't tell where anything was coming from.

 

The songs I used were "Touch" and "Giorgio by Moroder" from Daft Punk's RAM in my very quick unscientific test. I actually had one earbud in and one ear cup over to switch between the two. To make it better I guess I'd try a variety of different songs, use a splitter from the same source, match the volume levels as much as possible and try different files of the same music, so 320k MP3, FLAC and Vinyl Rip FLAC.