Generic Mac Pro 2013 chatter.

[Lyons]

When I was talking about the PC argument, I was referring to it (PC) as buying a pre built system, I wasn't suggesting that they should self build, anyone would know that's not really viable for most mainstream businesses. 

 

My whole argument in that field was based on the fact that apple products have tended to be hilariously overpriced for what they offer compared to competitors. I'm not that well versed in business computing, but I'm fairly sure that the same argument could be used in this field when compared to other pre built workstation sellers.

 

You just placed yourself in every single point I made in my list. Job done.

[felixbearpig]

When I was talking about the PC argument, I was referring to it (PC) as buying a pre built system, I wasn't suggesting that they should self build, anyone would know that's not really viable for most mainstream businesses. 

 

My whole argument in that field was based on the fact that apple products have tended to be hilariously overpriced for what they offer compared to competitors. I'm not that well versed in business computing, but I'm fairly sure that the same argument could be used in this field when compared to other pre built workstation sellers.

but they have no competitors... so the argument is invalid, the argument turns into which OS is best for their needs

[AdamG1401]

Explain how they have no competitors?

They are offering a pre-built, custom system in a lets face it, swag, box.

You mentioned Lenovo, Dell, HP and the like.

 

No doubt i'm missing something obvious, but they offer pre built systems in custom(ish) enclosures? correct?

 

Not trying to be a colossal dick. If i'm wrong, at least give me a detailed reason why i'm wrong.

[Lyons]

Explain how they have no competitors?

They are offering a pre-built, custom system in a lets face it, swag, box.

You mentioned Lenovo, Dell, HP and the like.

 

No doubt i'm missing something obvious, but they offer pre built systems in custom(ish) enclosures? correct?

 

Not trying to be a colossal dick. If i'm wrong, at least give me a detailed reason why i'm wrong.

 

No other workstation class computer runs OSX officially, that is why they have no competitors. And don't say, 'oh but hackintoshes', because It is illegal for professional firms to produce and sell work using unlicensed or illegitimate software. It is marketed to and used by professionals who require OSX.  :)

[felixbearpig]

Explain how they have no competitors?

They are offering a pre-built, custom system in a lets face it, swag, box.

You mentioned Lenovo, Dell, HP and the like.

 

No doubt i'm missing something obvious, but they offer pre built systems in custom(ish) enclosures? correct?

 

Not trying to be a colossal dick. If i'm wrong, at least give me a detailed reason why i'm wrong.

they whould have competitors if everybody had the same os, for that reason , when these people go for apple, they have hardware and os not just a windows pc with a diffrent maker. since they are the only one with OSX they have a monoploy, which means they have no competitors

[AdamG1401]

No other workstation class computer runs OSX officially, that is why they have no competitors. And don't say, 'oh but hackintoshes', because It is illegal for professional firms to produce work using unlicensed or illegitimate software.

Okay, fair enough. 

I know hackintoshes are illegal, they shouldn't be, but that's for another day ;).

If they want to use OSX, live and let live i suppose. If they need to, fair enough also.

Thanks for the clarification.

[ProGearUk]

Isn't it that way now?

I dont know I have not checked I presume so. It just seems like a dumb idea

[Mario]

I personaly think that this is an inovative idea atleast, but i don't think a lot of people buy their workstation PC's because of the looks or form factor. If you have a workstation it probably sits someware by your desk and isn't mooved around alot, so smallness would be kind of a unnecesary feature. I also beleave that you cannot fit that many harddrives in there, and if you want to expand your storige you have to use external enclosures, which would remedy the smallness and also the good design of the computer.

Ok this is my personal oppinion, feel free to agree or disagree whith it, i am not oprressing it on anyone. :) (i might have screwed up some facts in here so feel free to correct me)

[Salmiakbal]

I don't even think Intel offers 12 core processors. I think they mean 6 cores/12 threads. That's typically something Apple (and other large tech companies) would do (larger numbers r better 7 tareflups amirite)

I believe older Mac Pro's support up to dual CPU's evidently giving much more performance... Don't see how a single six core is gonna beat it

Unless they have 2 CPU's in there but they didn't advertise that

[ShiverMePenguins]

Except they don't? When has Apple ever released computing performance expressed in teraflops about their consumer products?

lol exactly. honestly, i hate fanboys more than anything in like. freaking irrational to anything other than their own opinion.

[SMURG]

oh i forgot, a 230mm (around about) sized blower in a vertically cascaded machine with a unified heatsink has been done on so many laptops.

 

 

no company has created a dual gpu unified heatsink system before. gaming laptops use at least 2-3 in their system.

 

not to mention the system is very compact yet tall(ish). drawing air from bottom and assisting the HUGE blower with natural convection is nothing short than genius. but wait, it's also the first company to create a cylinder type workstation, that seems innovative. i also noticed a dual gpu+cpu unified heatsink... that seems innovative to me.

 

 

please. fanboy hate apple more plox.

Alienware laptops have used SLI configurations before with a single unified heatsink for the GPUs and the CPU together, just with 2 fans - one in each corner of the laptop. Natural convection's contribution to the mac pro's airflow will be negligible; the temperature differential and volumes of air involved have to be much greater before the whole "heat rises" thing actually becomes noticeable. 230mm fans are nothing new either; Apple's cooling solution is just a bigger version of what we see in laptops, as I said before.

The only new thing is the cylinder-shape. Call that innovative if you like.

I think that it is you who is the fanboy here, not me. I actually see merits from what Apple have done which are more noteworthy than "ooh look, it's a cylinder. How innovative", like the fact that they have used soldered GPUs to get Thunderbolt working on LGA 2011 despite the inherent incompatibilities between the two. Apple get points from me for this, but overall the question still remains "why not just build a Hackintosh which is superior and costs less?". Especially since here in the UK you can buy pre-built Hackintoshes...

[SMURG]

I don't even think Intel offers 12 core processors. I think they mean 6 cores/12 threads. That's typically something Apple (and other large tech companies) would do (larger numbers r better 7 tareflups amirite)

I believe older Mac Pro's support up to dual CPU's evidently giving much more performance... Don't see how a single six core is gonna beat it

Unless they have 2 CPU's in there but they didn't advertise that

Pretty sure they do offer 12-core xeon chips, which is what this will be using ;)

[notenoughtv]

Alienware laptops have used SLI configurations before with a single unified heatsink for the GPUs and the CPU together, just with 2 fans - one in each corner of the laptop. Natural convection's contribution to the mac pro's airflow will be negligible; the temperature differential and volumes of air involved have to be much greater before the whole "heat rises" thing actually becomes noticeable. 230mm fans are nothing new either; Apple's cooling solution is just a bigger version of what we see in laptops, as I said before.

The only new thing is the cylinder-shape. Call that innovative if you like.

I think that it is you who is the fanboy here, not me. I actually see merits from what Apple have done which are more noteworthy than "ooh look, it's a cylinder. How innovative", like the fact that they have used soldered GPUs to get Thunderbolt working on LGA 2011 despite the inherent incompatibilities between the two. Apple get points from me for this, but overall the question still remains "why not just build a Hackintosh which is superior and costs less?". Especially since here in the UK you can buy pre-built Hackintoshes...

 

From a personal consumer point of view I think you are correct, you can just build a Hackintosh and get better performance for your money. But when you work in a company I don't think you can go up to your boss and convince him of upgrading your computers to hackintosh systems, even if they come prebuilt. Everytime a new iteration of OSX comes out you would have to make the entire hackintosh process all over again. Not even mentioning that people who build their own computers are a minority.

[SMURG]

From a personal consumer point of view I think you are correct, you can just build a Hackintosh and get better performance for your money. But when you work in a company I don't think you can go up to your boss and convince him of upgrading your computers to hackintosh systems, even if they come prebuilt. Everytime a new iteration of OSX comes out you would have to make the entire hackintosh process all over again. Not even mentioning that people who build their own computers are a minority.

I guess that's what it comes down to, although it's a headscratcher for me how media companies could become so reliant on Apple, especially after how long they took to update the current/old mac pro. You'd think they'd bite the bullet and move to some equivalent solution which works on Windows... I find it hard to believe that Apple is the be-all and end-all of media creation, since all the programs I've ever heard of for content creation are compatible with both Windows and OSX. Plus if everyone used Windows for content creation, that's what the software would be written for in the first place.

[Puppet]

Alienware laptops have used SLI configurations before with a single unified heatsink for the GPUs and the CPU together, just with 2 fans - one in each corner of the laptop. Natural convection's contribution to the mac pro's airflow will be negligible; the temperature differential and volumes of air involved have to be much greater before the whole "heat rises" thing actually becomes noticeable. 230mm fans are nothing new either; Apple's cooling solution is just a bigger version of what we see in laptops, as I said before.

Cooling is irrelevant, it's a Xeon, chances are you are not going to try to overclock it, as long as it keeps itself within safe temps then it's all good.

 

 

Pretty sure they do offer 12-core xeon chips, which is what this will be using ;)

Nope... highest amount of cores is 10 in their Xeon E7 range. The ad said "12-core processing power" with I assume means the 6 core multi-threaded E5 and in fairness it probably will get a lot of use out of being multithreaded, but I think this is a case of Apple exaggerating a bit, unless they meant dual CPU like the old MacPro, but I don't think so.

[SMURG]

Cooling is irrelevant, it's a Xeon, chances are you are not going to try to overclock it, as long as it keeps itself within safe temps then it's all good.

 

 

Nope... highest amount of cores is 10 in their Xeon E7 range. The ad said "12-core processing power" with I assume means the 6 core multi-threaded E5 and in fairness it probably will get a lot of use out of being multithreaded, but I think this is a case of Apple exaggerating a bit, unless they meant dual CPU like the old MacPro, but I don't think so.

I wasn't arguing how effective the cooling was, simply stating that it was nothing particularly new from a design standpoint.

Orly? They must mean a 6-core then... Unless Ivybridge-E expands the line-up to include a 12-core model...

[notenoughtv]

Cooling is irrelevant, it's a Xeon, chances are you are not going to try to overclock it, as long as it keeps itself within safe temps then it's all good.

 

 

Nope... highest amount of cores is 10 in their Xeon E7 range. The ad said "12-core processing power" with I assume means the 6 core multi-threaded E5 and in fairness it probably will get a lot of use out of being multithreaded, but I think this is a case of Apple exaggerating a bit, unless they meant dual CPU like the old MacPro, but I don't think so.

 

Intel gave Apple Thunderbolt first than any other company, so I wouldn't be surprise if they gave them early acces to a new 12 core Xeon.

 

Something that I'm hoping for is that since they spoke of this mac pro supporting 3 4K displays, will they be putting a 4K display on the market. Even if we don't like to admit it Apple sets trends and if they come out with a 4K display it would speed up the 4K market for PC monitors. But that's just my wishful thinking

[Puppet]

SMURG, on 12 Jun 2013 - 9:21 PM, said:

I wasn't arguing how effective the cooling was, simply stating that it was nothing particularly new from a design standpoint.

Orly? They must mean a 6-core then... Unless Ivybridge-E expands the line-up to include a 12-core model...

A server grade processor and 2 usually full size graphics cards in a case that's 15cm shorter than an FT03 Mini, sounds new enough to me.

Ivybridge-E is an i7, Ivybridge E3 (Xeon) was released last year. It says Xeon E5 on the website, unless they are planning on releasing a new E5, I'm pretty sure its the 6 core.

Edit: Just looked up some rumours on the next gen Xeons and apparently the Ivybridge-EX (E7 Xeon) is going to have 15 Cores? So maybe the new E5 will be a 12 Core? Still seems strange that they would let Apple make the first call.

[KaareKanin]

I've seen all-in-one PCs with dedicated GPUs and i7s which are all cooled by a single heatpipe-based heatsink which is then cooled by a single fan elsewhere in the machine... None of them are cylindrical ofc, but this kind of cooling is basically what we have in laptops already, only beefed up a bit. It's hardly innovative to take a concept, make it bigger, and then call it something different....

 

Well it doesn't look airflow optimized that's for sure, and I seriously doubt that it will have water cooling, I'm guessing it's gonna be hot as hell. 

 

well I would be careful with that word inovate. Apple is a recipe company, they actually don't invent and inovate, just make new recipes. But that's just  my opinion, though.

Well, it isn't now, is it? The recipe thing you got from Tek Syndicate or something, didn't you? :P

 

Anyways, what Apple is doing is most definitely innovation. Innovation differs from invention in many ways. An invention is something new (I would say something you can patent, but considering how broken the american patent system has become, I should maybe just leave it there).

 

Innovation isn't only about tangible products, it's about how you run your business, its about how you make money, but it can also be to combine solutions and into a product. The way the Mac Pro is designed is definitely innovative. Anyone claiming anything else doesn't know/understand what innovation is about

[SMURG]

Well, it isn't now, is it? The recipe thing you got from Tek Syndicate or something, didn't you? :P

 

Anyways, what Apple is doing is most definitely innovation. Innovation differs from invention in many ways. An invention is something new (I would say something you can patent, but considering how broken the american patent system has become, I should maybe just leave it there).

 

Innovation isn't only about tangible products, it's about how you run your business, its about how you make money, but it can also be to combine solutions and combine them into a product. The way the Mac Pro is designed is definitely innovative. Anyone claiming anything else doesn't know what innovation is about

 

There are innovative elements to the mac pro, I just don't think the cooling system specifically is very innovative. The innovations are much more precise and not the kind of thing Apple can hype up.

 

A server grade processor and 2 usually full size graphics cards in a case that's 15cm shorter than an FT03 Mini, sounds new enough to me.

 

Ivybridge-E is an i7, Ivybridge-EP (Xeon) was released last year but it's an E3. It says Xeon E5 on the website, unless they are planning on releasing a new E5, I'm pretty sure its the 6 core.

There have been laptops using server grade processors before, not many though I'll grant you. The GPUs in the new mac pro are hardly full-sized though, unless you're going to count the ones in big gaming laptops as full-sized too. I expect there will be a new E5 myself, but only time will tell.

[AdamG1401]

You can't overclock Xeons on 2011 anyway so cooling the CPU excessively is irrelevant.

[Salmiakbal]

Pretty sure they do offer 12-core xeon chips, which is what this will be using ;)

Nope, highest I see 'em go is 10 cores so my guess is it's gonna be a six core twelve threads processors.

[SMURG]

Nope, highest I see 'em go is 10 cores so my guess is it's gonna be a six core twelve threads processors.

Yeah, my bad - unless they make a new 12-core E5 to go along with the IVB-E launch in September...

[Puppet]

There have been laptops using server grade processors before, not many though I'll grant you. The GPUs in the new mac pro are hardly full-sized though, unless you're going to count the ones in big gaming laptops as full-sized too. I expect there will be a new E5 myself, but only time will tell.

I dunno, it seems like a lot of power for such a small machine. 7 Teraflops on the GPUs, unless it's a marketing trick like combining single and double point precision figures, then that's more computational power than a Tesla K20!

 

I have no reason to big up Apple, most of their other products have fallen way behind, but this to me really redeems them. I mean look at it, how did they even fit a PSU in there to power all that hardware:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KtILkzC-1g

[arkon]

I mean look at it, how did they even fit a PSU in there to power all that hardware: