Phil Spencer(MS) commits to PC Gaming again....

[CyanideInsanity]

-snip-

I know the BS they did, which is why I asked if they had actually done anything pro-pc recently.

[mr moose]

 

Hey Mr. Moose can you post the profits of the Xbox division since inception? Then post the number of PC gamers on a Windows OS, whom pay 100 dollars for an OEM, or have the OEM manufacturer put it on their PC. 

 

Loaded question that can't be answered,  not all pc gamers use their pc solely for games, a good portion would still have bought a copy of windows even if they didn't play games becasue they use their pc for work, school, other.

Trying to calculate how many gamers there are that actually buy a copy of windows exclusively for gaming is nigh on impossible.    However the actual figures for the xbox are a little different because MS doesn't separate profit/loss for xbox alone, it only provides figures for the whole consumer devices division.  You can Google for many different articles that give many different figures but I would trust a single one.   On top of that MS gets further revenue from console games and Live subscription. Also I dare say, like most companies, MS will want to reclaim as much investment dollars back from the xbox as they can. 

 

 

 

We know MS has invested money into xbox and want to get it back, we also know that game sales add nothing to MS revenue. We also know that MS are not doing anything for PC gamers while still pushing for console sales, exclusive games etc. 

 

The number of enthusiast windows gamers was estimated to be 150M in 2009

 

  This article also estimates the piracy rate to be ~20%. given most use their pc for other things and that vendor oem pricing is less than half, it isn't beyond reason that MS makes less money from windows gamers than xbox even with the sunk costs of xbox manufacture.

 

DO you really think MS makes money out of us? do you really think MS would go broke or have to change their business practice if PC gaming suddenly ceased to exist?

 

EDIT: did you really think I was going just accept those articles that insinuate the xbox has lost  $3B and then multiply the number of steam users by 100?  That wouldn't even come close to accurately addressing the revenue pc gamers provide for either sony or MS.

[themodernagenb]

How is anyone still surprised by this? PC gamers are second class citizens in the eyes of MS. We all know it, yet we expect the company to admit that. It's not going to happen, people.

 

"But the PC gaming industry rakes in billions of dollars a year," you say. MS is not really seeing any of that money. Nvidia, AMD, Asus, Valve. Those are the people making money off PC gamers.

 

"But PC gamers are buying their OS..." If you really think that PC gamers have any significant statistical impact on sales numbers compared to the business sector, then you are blissfully ignorant.

 

The Xbox division is much more important to MS than PC gaming.

 

If any one of us ran that company, then you would have the same strategy as theirs right now. Doing the opposite doesn't and wouldn't add up. If they released the Master Chief Collection on the PC, then there would be that much less incentive in buying an Xbox One. And that's not their strategy at all.

 

This will only change once MS releases the Xbox OS as a standalone product. That would be the future, but a much distant future. Until then, PC gamers will be getting the shaft. There's no changing that.

[deathjester]

Loaded question that can't be answered,  not all pc gamers use their pc solely for games, a good portion would still have bought a copy of windows even if they didn't play games becasue they use their pc for work, school, other.

Trying to calculate how many gamers there are that actually buy a copy of windows exclusively for gaming is nigh on impossible.    However the actual figures for the xbox are a little different because MS doesn't separate profit/loss for xbox alone, it only provides figures for the whole consumer devices division.  You can Google for many different articles that give many different figures but I would trust a single one.   On top of that MS gets further revenue from console games and Live subscription. Also I dare say, like most companies, MS will want to reclaim as much investment dollars back from the xbox as they can. 

 

 

 

We know MS has invested money into xbox and want to get it back, we also know that game sales add nothing to MS revenue. We also know that MS are not doing anything for PC gamers while still pushing for console sales, exclusive games etc. 

 

The number of enthusiast windows gamers was estimated to be 150M in 2009

 

  This article also estimates the piracy rate to be ~20%. given most use their pc for other things and that vendor oem pricing is less than half, it isn't beyond reason that MS makes less money from windows gamers than xbox even with the sunk costs of xbox manufacture.

 

DO you really think MS makes money out of us? do you really think MS would go broke or have to change their business practice if PC gaming suddenly ceased to exist?

 

EDIT: did you really think I was going just accept those articles that insinuate the xbox has lost  $3B and then multiply the number of steam users by 100?  That wouldn't even come close to accurately addressing the revenue pc gamers provide for either sony or MS.

 

 

Win XP 100 dollars, Win Vista 100 dollars (exclusive games to Vista), Win 7 100 dollars. Win 8 100 dollars. Win 10 most likely going to be sub fee.  That is 400 dollars paid to MS just to game on the PC and doesn't include 10 and that is If you bought the OEM's and not Professionals or Retail. This is with free OS's around and OpenGL being used and better then DX 9 on most of my big titles before Vista and a scare campaign pretty much killed OpenGL ports, and Direct X was HORRID before that, and MS bought the original Direct 3D from another company.

 

Yeah they make money off us.  Since you could not answer the question as far as Xbox division profits and try to spin that a division which has often operated at a loss, and had shareholders calling for it's head makes more than OS sales to PC Gamers? I am done with this. You continue to say they make no money off PC Gaming when they have made an absolute @%#% ton of money off OS sales providing a service that could be done for free. 

 

Talking to you is like talking to "Daniel the PC Gamer" and anyone that believes he is not a MS employee, shareholder or works for an advertising firm while astroturfing (illegal) is not worth responding to.

 

MS has to LIE and misrepresent fantasies as a "PC Gamer" to act as if they are doing for something for PC Gaming. That pretty much says it all. 

 

As far as the money invested into Xbox? It is also money invested towards Direct X and Windows. MS did not pay 2 billion dollars for Minecraft for a pitiful install base of 5 million Xbox's that just got outsold 7 to 1 in Spain for the Xbox alone. I expect Windows OS version exclusivity on the PC sequel etc. 

[mr moose]

Win XP 100 dollars, Win Vista 100 dollars (exclusive games to Vista), Win 7 100 dollars. Win 8 100 dollars. Win 10 most likely going to be sub fee.  That is 400 dollars paid to MS just to game on the PC and doesn't include 10 and that is If you bought the OEM's and not Professionals or Retail. This is with free OS's around and OpenGL being used and better then DX 9 on most of my big titles before Vista and a scare campaign pretty much killed OpenGL ports, and Direct X was HORRID before that, and MS bought the original Direct 3D from another company.

 

Yeah they make money off us.  Since you could not answer the question as far as Xbox division profits and try to spin that a division which has often operated at a loss, and had shareholders calling for it's head makes more than OS sales to PC Gamers? I am done with this. You continue to say they make no money off PC Gaming when they have made an absolute @%#% ton of money off OS sales providing a service that could be done for free. 

 

Talking to you is like talking to "Daniel the PC Gamer" and anyone that believes he is not a MS employee, shareholder or works for an advertising firm while astroturfing (illegal) is not worth responding to.

 

MS has to LIE and misrepresent fantasies as a "PC Gamer" to act as if they are doing for something for PC Gaming. That pretty much says it all. 

 

As far as the money invested into Xbox? It is also money invested towards Direct X and Windows. MS did not pay 2 billion dollars for Minecraft for a pitiful install base of 5 million Xbox's that just got outsold 7 to 1 in Spain for the Xbox alone. I expect Windows OS version exclusivity on the PC sequel etc. 

 

Do you honestly think people upgrade every time a new OS is released?  ha, the average enthusiast upgrades every 5-6 years.  And if they get their pc as prebuilt then it's not $100, it's more like $40.

 

You can make up figures to prove a point that wasn't even in contention if you want but that doesn't change the facts. And you have failed to include the number of people who pirate.  Please Don't try to lecture me on not answering questions when you clearly don't understand the implications of the question nor have the capacity to properly understand corporate economics.

 

EDIT:  you really need to find some new evidence to support your die hared unrelenting attach on MS.  You post the same tired old picture, use the same tired old argument in nearly every discussion, you don't listen to what people are saying and you consistently resort to irrelevant points that have no bearing on the discussion.

 

 

It's really simple.

 

1. MS don't need us gamers or our revenue.

2. MS don't care about pc gaming,  the reason is moot, they have their reasons.

3. They keep pushing consoles.  Why, probably because PC games earn them nothing and they need to recoup costs on console.

4. Sony make even less out of PC games, so naturally they are going to push for console exclusives, which will have an effect on MS's console business.

 

Until you accept those basic facts you will not understand even half of why MS might do things the way they do.

[Naruke Alpha]

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/microsoft-exec-again-vows-commitment-to-pc-gaming/1100-6422852/

 

Since his last statement? Tomb Raider is now an Xbox One exclusive and delayed off PC for who knows how long. What this accomplishes I have no idea, because that is a graphical title and a sequel to a game that looked gorgeous on the PC and there is no way in hell I would play it on an Xbox One. Bought Minecraft, and we have no idea what the future of that franchise is on sequels, but I can take a wild guess based off the track record of PC titles they bought which started with Halo. Project Spark is a Windows 8.1 exclusive which has 13 percent market share. 

 

Hey Phil. Would appreciate it if you just stop buying up PC titles and locking them off PC or delaying them or locking them behind an OS upgrade on an OS "you want us to forget". That would be enough commitment for me. Make more original home grown games like Forza and leave the PC franchises and multiplats alone. This money could be spent CONTRIBUTING to gaming, and not alienating customers on a MS OS and screwing people out of multiplats.

Spark is not just locked to windows 8.1, its also in windows 10 and so on, spark just cant be developed for windows 7 (forgot the main reason, was told during alpha period but oh well)

[deathjester]

Do you honestly think people upgrade every time a new OS is released?  ha, the average enthusiast upgrades every 5-6 years.  And if they get their pc as prebuilt then it's not $100, it's more like $40.

 

You can make up figures to prove a point that wasn't even in contention if you want but that doesn't change the facts. And you have failed to include the number of people who pirate.  Please Don't try to lecture me on not answering questions when you clearly don't understand the implications of the question nor have the capacity to properly understand corporate economics.

 

EDIT:  you really need to find some new evidence to support your die hared unrelenting attach on MS.  You post the same tired old picture, use the same tired old argument in nearly every discussion, you don't listen to what people are saying and you consistently resort to irrelevant points that have no bearing on the discussion.

 

 

It's really simple.

 

1. MS don't need us gamers or our revenue.

2. MS don't care about pc gaming,  the reason is moot, they have their reasons.

3. They keep pushing consoles.  Why, probably because PC games earn them nothing and they need to recoup costs on console.

4. Sony make even less out of PC games, so naturally they are going to push for console exclusives, which will have an effect on MS's console business.

 

Until you accept those basic facts you will not understand even half of why MS might do things the way they do.

 

They push the consoles due to Direct "X". That is why the "X" box is called the "X" box. They LOSE money on Xbox to make money off DirectX. You keep saying they need to recoup costs on the console. Why are they investing so much (often at a loss) anyways? To help keep an API monopoly alive. That is the entire reason this dumb console exists. Not to make a ton of profits. Not for advertising the MS brand when half the things they do on the Xbox (buying their exclusives rather than making them) piss off gamers anyways.

 

Keep posting though. Post those awesome profits on the Xbox division, and tell us how they make no money off PC Gamers while they hide API upgrades behind OS upgrade paywalls. Literally the entire argument you present is annihilated by the fact MS keeps DX updates off every new OS.  If they didn't care, and they didn't make money off the OS sales to gamers, they would not do this with the API. What are they doing with DX 12? Hiding it behind yet another paywall, that most likely will be subscription based. Local media in Seattle is already writing articles about the subscription future of Windows 10. CNET and Ars Technica are lobbying for it. They posted a job hiring to transition the next Windows to a service (subscription). All because they make no money off PC gamers off OS sales, right? Oh and you are right about Vista. People held onto XP, and onto 7, which is why MS is withholding the Start Bar on 8 and only giving it back with a subscription fee lol.  

 

You can keep telling people up and down, but they are never going to believe you. I don't even know why MS even bothers astroturfing now days. They are so full of @%^#, and have been caught in so many lies and technical fairy tales just on Xbox alone, they have zero credibility and people constantly defending them have less credibility. 

 

Can't flip switch on DRM? Lie. 

DX 12 doing wonders for Xbox? Lie.

Cloud? Closed network demos that will never work on current internet infrastructure. Lie. Add to that lies about what it would do in Titanfall. Turns out it was dedicated servers.

 

MS is more full of @#$% than most politicians. And they bribe those idiots so they don't get fined for astroturfing, monopolies etc. Only oil companies and cigarette companies out lobby MS. 

 

http://www.lobbyfacts.eu/news/25-09-2014/us-corporations-are-biggest-spenders-brussels-lobbying

[mr moose]

They push the consoles due to Direct "X". That is why the "X" box is called the "X" box. They LOSE money on Xbox to make money off DirectX. You keep saying they need to recoup costs on the console. Why are they investing so much (often at a loss) anyways? To help keep an API monopoly alive. That is the entire reason this dumb console exists. Not to make a ton of profits. Not for advertising the MS brand when half the things they do on the Xbox (buying their exclusives rather than making them) piss off gamers anyways.

 

Keep posting though. Post those awesome profits on the Xbox division, and tell us how they make no money off PC Gamers while they hide API upgrades behind OS upgrade paywalls. Literally the entire argument you present is annihilated by the fact MS keeps DX updates off every new OS.  If they didn't care, and they didn't make money off the OS sales to gamers, they would not do this with the API. What are they doing with DX 12? Hiding it behind yet another paywall, that most likely will be subscription based. Local media in Seattle is already writing articles about the subscription future of Windows 10. CNET and Ars Technica are lobbying for it. They posted a job hiring to transition the next Windows to a service (subscription). All because they make no money off PC gamers off OS sales, right? Oh and you are right about Vista. People held onto XP, and onto 7, which is why MS is withholding the Start Bar on 8 and only giving it back with a subscription fee lol.  

 

You can keep telling people up and down, but they are never going to believe you. I don't even know why MS even bothers astroturfing now days. They are so full of @%^#, and have been caught in so many lies and technical fairy tales just on Xbox alone, they have zero credibility and people constantly defending them have less credibility. 

 

Can't flip switch on DRM? Lie. 

DX 12 doing wonders for Xbox? Lie.

Cloud? Closed network demos that will never work on current internet infrastructure. Lie. Add to that lies about what it would do in Titanfall. Turns out it was dedicated servers.

 

MS is more full of @#$% than most politicians. And they bribe those idiots so they don't get fined for astroturfing, monopolies etc. Only oil companies and cigarette companies out lobby MS. 

 

http://www.lobbyfacts.eu/news/25-09-2014/us-corporations-are-biggest-spenders-brussels-lobbying

 

Really, your whole argument comes back to them making money of DX which is actually free to the end user and unless a game dev wants official support it's free for them too. You really don't want to accept that people in general don't upgrade their OS every 3 years just to have the latest handful of unnecessary DX features.   But feel free to keep ignoring the main point so you can rant on about DX and calling anyone with an ounce of sense an astroturfer.

[Silent_Xaxal]

The pen is mightier than the sword.

 

Not in front of rousing, angry revolutionaries who will fight on all intellectual and physical battlefields.