Evolution to be taught in UK primary schools

[Rising]

I didn't mention anything about your beliefs even once, i gave you some simple questions because i was interested in the answers.

 

I've said it many times now, i respect them, not their stupid beliefs, they get offended or mad because they cling themselves onto them, they can't back it up so they resort to emotional appeals.

 

You haven't pointed out any contradictions, please go ahead this time...

Ah. On the point of you respecting them but not their beliefs I understand. From what I read from your posts it sounded like you believed they were all incompetent, moronic, and disgusting do to their beliefs, rather than their beliefs being so. So on that note I apologize, I may have gotten that from others comments and mixed them in with yours .

"You don't seem to be able to distinguish fanaticism from passion"

"Are you as ignorant as him?"

"I don't think you understand what science is"

I took these as if you were referencing my beliefs. On he topic of my beliefs I believe I fully understand what science is and I respect and love it. But I also understand what humans can make science and how those who don't understand can twist for their own gain and to hurt orhers, just as they have done with religion. As many religions do not instruct their follows to force their religion, some even speak against it, but many do anyways. It is this note that I found the "contradiction". I found it hypocritical for someone to judge another on their views while at the same time shouting theirs. However it seems you were not judging the person as much beliefe.

The issue with attacking religion as a belief though is that to many, religion is their life. It is how hey act and how they live. You may as well be insulting heir mother, for that is how they will take it.

[OlekKing]

Ah. On the point of you respecting them but not their beliefs I understand. From what I read from your posts it sounded like you believed they were all incompetent, moronic, and disgusting do to their beliefs, rather than their beliefs being so. So on that note I apologize, I may have gotten that from others comments and mixed them in with yours .

"You don't seem to be able to distinguish fanaticism from passion"

"Are you as ignorant as him?"

"I don't think you understand what science is"

I took these as if you were referencing my beliefs. On he topic of my beliefs I believe I fully understand what science is and I respect and love it. But I also understand what humans can make science and how those who don't understand can twist for their own gain and to hurt orhers, just as they have done with religion. As many religions do not instruct their follows to force their religion, some even speak against it, but many do anyways. It is this note that I found the "contradiction". I found it hypocritical for someone to judge another on their views while at the same time shouting theirs. However it seems you were not judging the person as much beliefe.

The issue with attacking religion as a belief though is that to many, religion is their life. It is how hey act and how they live. You may as well be insulting heir mother, for that is how they will take it.

"many religions do not instruct their follows to force their religion, some even speak against it" 

 

Please provide me with the names of these religions then. I don't understand why you even "bring up some other religions", what matters are the main Abrahamic religions.

 

Knock yourself out.

 

http://www.evilbible.com/

 

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm

[Boxrocket]

It isn't a miracle, it is the result of humans evolving to the point of biological complexity to be able to make technology, it is not a miracle that we evolved technologically to the point of having a message board.

I do not call that a miracle.

Also you missed the point, my point was that there is no reason for us to exist, such as you claimed. 

Ever think just why? Why is this happening? We have a conscience.. that is curious.  Even if we evolved... there still has to be an ultimate "get the ball rolling" reason.  What did this all start from? If it had no start, then why did it have no beginning and how is that possible? What is the ultimate purpose we are sitting at this particular point in space perhaps?  

 

There a many people out there that think once they die they cease to be.  That is the reason this planet "seems to be fucked" like you say. No more pledging allegiance to our flag... what for? Who cares right? Waste of time right?  This country was founded as one nation under God right? I guess those idiots that initiated a home for you and me had their heads up their asses right?  Silly them.  The further we get away from God the worse we become.

 

Archaeological finds, religion, and science all coexists simultaneously.  The roman catholic church has one of the most expensive telescopes in the world for what?  Just for fun?  They are looking for something in particular.  There is more to religion that what meets the eye and ear.

 

Even Euclid of Alexandria (Father of Geometry) in 300 B.C. said,"The laws of nature are but the mathematical thoughts of God". Are you going to argue with Euclid?

 

I was raised Catholic but only found my way back to Jesus Christ later in my life, only after extensive studying of archaeology, science, and comparing many written "religious" (<----lack of a better word) documents.

 

But Jesus said to him, “I AM THE LIVING GOD, and you shall behold The Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power and coming on the clouds of Heaven." Mark 14-62

 

Find out about Jesus! He is the Good News!

[Rising]

"many religions do not instruct their follows to force their religion, some even speak against it" 

 

Please provide me with the names of these religions then. I don't understand why you even "bring up some other religions", what matters are the main Abrahamic religions.

 

Knock yourself out.

 

http://www.evilbible.com/

 

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm

So we have the first link listing horrible things stated within the bible, but nothing relating Christianity to a religion that encourages itself to be forced upon others.

 

and we have the second link listing passages within Islam that it states any furtherance of Islam is prohibited by their God.

 

"Whereas Almighty God hath created the mind free; that all attempts to influence it by temporal punishments or burthens, or by civil incapacitations, tend only to beget habits of hypocrisy and meanness, and are a departure from the plan of the Holy author of our religion..." -Thomas Jefferson

[AlwaysFSX]

This thread is filled with laughter and love. I can feel it in the air.

[Digital Brit]

Ever think just why? Why is this happening? We have a conscience.. that is curious.  Even if we evolved... there still has to be an ultimate "get the ball rolling" reason.  What did this all start from? If it had no start, then why did it have no beginning and how is that possible? What is the ultimate purpose we are sitting at this particular point in space perhaps?  

 

There a many people out there that think once they die they cease to be.  That is the reason this planet "seems to be fucked" like you say. No more pledging allegiance to our flag... what for? Who cares right? Waste of time right?  This country was founded as one nation under God right? I guess those idiots that initiated a home for you and me had their heads up their asses right?  Silly them.  The further we get away from God the worse we become.

 

Archaeological finds, religion, and science all coexists simultaneously.  The roman catholic church has one of the most expensive telescopes in the world for what?  Just for fun?  They are looking for something in particular.  There is more to religion that what meets the eye and ear.

 

Even Euclid of Alexandria (Father of Geometry) in 300 B.C. said,"The laws of nature are but the mathematical thoughts of God". Are you going to argue with Euclid?

 

I was raised Catholic but only found my way back to Jesus Christ later in my life, only after extensive studying of archaeology, science, and comparing many written "religious" (<----lack of a better word) documents.

 

But Jesus said to him, “I AM THE LIVING GOD, and you shall behold The Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power and coming on the clouds of Heaven." Mark 14-62

 

Find out about Jesus! He is the Good News!

"Ever think just why? Why is this happening? We have a conscience.. that is curious.  Even if we evolved... there still has to be an ultimate "get the ball rolling" reason.  What did this all start from? If it had no start, then why did it have no beginning and how is that possible? What is the ultimate purpose we are sitting at this particular point in space perhaps?  "

I have thought: "Why are we here and why is this happening?" in the sense of existentialism and I have concluded that there is no reason, there is no reason for humans to exist, or life for that matter. There was most likely a random event that 'got the ball rolling' but would be an event, not a reason.

 

"There a many people out there that think once they die they cease to be.  That is the reason this planet "seems to be fucked" like you say. No more pledging allegiance to our flag... what for? Who cares right? Waste of time right?  This country was founded as one nation under God right? I guess those idiots that initiated a home for you and me had their heads up their asses right?  Silly them.  The further we get away from God the worse we become."

Once things die their conscience ceases to be as there are no impulses in their brain to create thought. That is death.

I have never in my life pledged allegiance to any flag, but yes, it is a waste of time because no one else cares if you care about a flag.

This country was founded on.... actually I don't think it was founded on any beliefs, as far as I know, some anglo-saxons thought: "This is nice" and set up the proverbial shop.

The idiots you are referring did not found this country, they may have founded yours though.

The further we get away from God, the better we become, God is the root of a lot of human conflict, past and present.

 

" Archaeological finds, religion, and science all coexists simultaneously.  The roman catholic church has one of the most expensive telescopes in the world for what?  Just for fun?  They are looking for something in particular.  There is more to religion that what meets the eye and ear."

Just because three things can exist at the same time does not mean life has a reason, I find no logic or relevance in that statement.

The Catholic church probably wants to save face by have a telescope to prove that they can work with science. (PR is fun!) But there are many more, more advanced telescopes made expressly for scientific communities. Having a telescope proves nothing.

Yes there is more to religion, it is a scheme to control people through indoctrination at a young age so that they know nothing else. It's rather evil.

 

"Even Euclid of Alexandria (Father of Geometry) in 300 B.C. said,"The laws of nature are but the mathematical thoughts of God". Are you going to argue with Euclid?"

Yes I will argue with Euclid, because he's from 300 B.C.E. Greece and while the Greeks made some great progress in science, developing some very good ideas that were later expanded upon by modern science, he was still part of a polytheist society that believed in some weird shit. I.E. a God gave them fire so he had his liver pecked at for eternity, 'cause you know, that makes perfect sense.

 

"I was raised Catholic but only found my way back to Jesus Christ later in my life, only after extensive studying of archaeology, science, and comparing many written "religious" (<----lack of a better word) documents."  

After your supposed extensive reading of scientific documents you still chose religion as the logical one, I feel sorry for you, I truly do.

 

"But Jesus said to him, “I AM THE LIVING GOD, and you shall behold The Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power and coming on the clouds of Heaven." Mark 14-62"

I don't give a shit what Jesus said, he isn't real (or at least not in the capacity you believe), just because your Bible says some stuff doesn't mean it's true.

"Hermione said, wingardium leviosaaaaaaaaa" therefore Harry Potter is true.  Do you see how ridiculous this is?

 

"Find out about Jesus! He is the Good News!"

Forget about Jesus! He is the Bad News!

[Tacitus]

fina f*cking lee, ples australia, someone in my science class yesterday thought cave men where a myth

 

Someone I knew in school was shocked to discover that pork came from pigs...

[mr moose]

The arrogance in this thread is strong, it really surprises me how hypocritical the human race is. 

[OlekKing]

The arrogance in this thread is strong, it really surprises me how hypocritical the human race is. 

Your condescending tone isn't helping your case much.

[OlekKing]

---

When that guy said he found Jesus after "studying" science, a part of me imploded inside.

[Commander Llama]

This is good news.  Evolution is a vital part of (and still only a part of) science education, whereas creationism has no place in schools, unless there is a need for examples on a course in pseudoscience/voodooscience/gibberish.  Congrats UK!  Your adult population in 20 years is going to be even more aces.

[OlekKing]

So we have the first link listing horrible things stated within the bible, but nothing relating Christianity to a religion that encourages itself to be forced upon others.

 

and we have the second link listing passages within Islam that it states any furtherance of Islam is prohibited by their God.

 

"Whereas Almighty God hath created the mind free; that all attempts to influence it by temporal punishments or burthens, or by civil incapacitations, tend only to beget habits of hypocrisy and meanness, and are a departure from the plan of the Holy author of our religion..." -Thomas Jefferson

Those links were simply to show the heinous shit in their scriptures.

 

Why did you give me a quote from Jefferson? The founding fathers of the USA were deists at best and wanted proper separation of church and state.

 

The links i gave you show passages that tell people to kill non-believers or those who blaspheme against their god...that's not enough for you? Their holy books tell them that everyone else apart from them is going to burn in eternity, that seems like a pretty big incentive to push religion on others....and it's one of the most common reasons.

[mr moose]

Your condescending tone isn't helping your case much.

case in point.

[LifesCompanion]

 

 

 

All you peasants only exist because the graciousness of our true Lord, Cthulhu.

Ignore the heretics of the atheist and religion regime and join the Cthulhu family. 

[Murdoch]

As far as im aware in Scotland I was never taught Creationism outside of religous classes, Although our eductaion systems are independant from one another so maybe that's why you guys have been taught it in science classes.

 

Exactly this, I find it hard to believe "creationism" was even being mentioned in any UK Schools, it's clearly ridiculous and has no place within an educational system. I guess Scotland was ahead of the game on this topic, I certainly never got "taught" about creationism.

 

I don't even remember it being mentioned within "Religious Education", not even in a "this is what some people believe" context. It was just as it should be, a complete irrelevance.

 

Although I'm glad they've taken the stance in the wider UK that creationism cannot be presented as scientific theory. But I suspect that would only apply to a handful of schools.

[OlekKing]

case in point.

I'm not sure why you're so protective when it comes to religious people.

 

It seems to me that there is really only one thing the religious believer wants to see change in my behavior: a cessation in criticism of his or her religious beliefs. "Respect my religious beliefs" is little more than a demand for silence. It is about silencing dissent and criticism. It is a request that I no longer exercise my right to free expression when it comes to the religious beliefs in question. The believer who demands respect for his or her religious beliefs is demanding that the rest of us grant him or her the privilege not to have these beliefs critically examined.

 

What I am getting at here is that I do not think the religious believer actually cares that I change my thoughts or my feelings; I don't think respect is what the believer is after. I think what he or she is really after is a change in my behavior. So what does this change look like? What does the believer want to see me do differently to provide evidence of an increase in my respect for his or her beliefs?

 

Also why do you think that respect is simply a given? It is earned.

Apart from some art and culture, religion has done absolutely no good, it has deceived people for centuries if not millennia, it has spilled rivers and rivers of blood through time, it has fostered hate and separatism and still continues to do it this very moment!

It brainwashes children, denying them from the true understanding of our cosmos and the processes from which it came about.

It teaches people a false sense of importance and to be content with falsehoods and to get rid of their critical faculties.

 

Your rebuttal consisted on the fact that religions have some charities and that religious people can do good? 

I can do good as well, but i do not do it because of some cosmic dictator who'll torture me for eternity if i happen to make a mistake, i do it because this is the way we have evolved, we are born with a sense of empathy, it is ingrained in us, it's what helps us to advance further and further as a species and civilization.

 

There is no need for religion or some other form of deceit to make people do good things.

These people don't do it simply because of religion, they wouldn't become murderers if they became atheist all of the sudden, they do good things because they are good people, because this is the way our species has sustained ourselves, we want to help people because we have a sense of sympathy and empathy that rewards us in the long run.

 

What you have given me is derived from the common and fallacious morality argument used by religious apologists.

 

Religion does not deserve any respect, it deserves contempt.

[chilicheeseburger]

when I read primary school I tought about 7year olds. But class six alright why not.

[mr moose]

I'm not sure why you're so protective when it comes to religious people.

 

It seems to me that there is really only one thing the religious believer wants to see change in my behavior: a cessation in criticism of his or her religious beliefs. "Respect my religious beliefs" is little more than a demand for silence. It is about silencing dissent and criticism. It is a request that I no longer exercise my right to free expression when it comes to the religious beliefs in question. The believer who demands respect for his or her religious beliefs is demanding that the rest of us grant him or her the privilege not to have these beliefs critically examined.

 

What I am getting at here is that I do not think the religious believer actually cares that I change my thoughts or my feelings; I don't think respect is what the believer is after. I think what he or she is really after is a change in my behavior. So what does this change look like? What does the believer want to see me do differently to provide evidence of an increase in my respect for his or her beliefs?

 

Also why do you think that respect is simply a given? It is earned.

Apart from some art and culture, religion has done absolutely no good, it has deceived people for centuries if not millennia, it has spilled rivers and rivers of blood through time, it has fostered hate and separatism and still continues to do it this very moment!

It brainwashes children, denying them from the true understanding of our cosmos and the processes from which it came about.

It teaches people a false sense of importance and to be content with falsehoods and to get rid of their critical faculties.

 

Your rebuttal consisted on the fact that religions have some charities and that religious people can do good? 

I can do good as well, but i do not do it because of some cosmic dictator who'll torture me for eternity if i happen to make a mistake, i do it because this is the way we have evolved, we are born with a sense of empathy, it is ingrained in us, it's what helps us to advance further and further as a species and civilization.

 

There is no need for religion or some other form of deceit to make people do good things.

These people don't do it simply because of religion, they wouldn't become murderers if they became atheist all of the sudden, they do good things because they are good people, because this is the way our species has sustained ourselves, we want to help people because we have a sense of sympathy and empathy that rewards us in the long run.

 

What you have given me is derived from the common and fallacious morality argument used by religious apologists.

 

Religion does not deserve any respect, it deserves contempt.

 

It's really quite simple,  Your posts are dripping with inflammatory language against religion,  Which is quite  hypocritical when you consider that that is one of the reasons you despise religion so much.  You said you respect people just not their religion, which would be fine except you then go on to call them stupid for believing in religion, again this is hypocritical.   I am not saying you must respect religion or religious people. I am saying you should respect peoples wishes to carry out any belief they want. This is of course unless you don't want them to respect you n any way.  I am advocating for peace, equality, and the right to live your life the way you want.  I am demanding that no body should force their life ethos onto others, It's a shame you can't do that.  You even make reference to religion being like smallpox in your signature,  which indicates you have a very narrow and erroneous understanding of humanity and religion.  Your views on religion are basically a superiority complex hiding behind the idea that because you can't prove a god exists, then all religions must be damaging and deserve contempt.

 

In a nutshell, if you think there is no need for religion then you don't understand the human psyche.  Nor do you understand what you are advocating against.

[DaRk0]

I'm surprised it weren't taught already, but then again, I was born in a communist state where religion was separated from state matters, education, military etc, so we were only taught evolution in primary school. We were taught that we should respect every religion as well, since my country was multinational with variety of religious types.

[mansoor_]

Considering the wealth of subject one can study, I am surprised the educational ministers think it is reasonable to devote time to the study of myths that managed to stick with us due to the credulity of people some time ago. 

[mr moose]

Considering the wealth of subject one can study, I am surprised the educational ministers think it is reasonable to devote time to the study of myths that managed to stick with us due to the credulity of people some time ago. 

 

Just putting aside whether you believe in a god or not,  religion is a major part of the human psyche, it has curbed how cultures have evolved it has been the corner stone of many legal systems, it has helped as many people as it has caused trouble.  It should be a part of history lessons.  It should also be taught in psychology as the effects a belief can have on a person are beyond scientific measure (before any one argues, you have to consider how hard it is to properly study the psychology of anything without crossing ethical boundaries). 

 

I find too many people dismiss or blame religion off hand because they don't understand the complexity of it's encumbrance in human psychology.

[AdmiralGeneralPauleyD]

My high school starts teaching us about evolution and creationism in our year 7 religion classes. Also I go to a Christian school.

[mansoor_]

Just putting aside whether you believe in a god or not,  religion is a major part of the human psyche, it has curbed how cultures have evolved it has been the corner stone of many legal systems, it has helped as many people as it has caused trouble.  It should be a part of history lessons.  It should also be taught in psychology as the effects a belief can have on a person are beyond scientific measure (before any one argues, you have to consider how hard it is to properly study the psychology of anything without crossing ethical boundaries). 

 

I find too many people dismiss or blame religion off hand because they don't understand the complexity of it's encumbrance in human psychology.

 

Of course you my study it, it would even be the corner stone of anthropology. However, I don't understand why children should have to study religious education. You should not have to study religion before you reach the age of reason. If not then we should also then children philosophy and determine their political inclinations as well. The reason the majority of people today are religious is because it is hammered into children before they are able to properly think through what it is they are being told.

[ComradeHX]

About time.

Remember Southern Amerika:

http://youtu.be/K0fPDnjZpz0?t=2m40s

[Leonard]

as long as they point out the fact that it is a theorem on the development of advanced life then +1. 

We cannot re-create the evolutionary process so we have no definitive proof of the exact measure of development. Get mad.

Well put sir.

 

That's pretty late.

 

 

Not true, we can influence how biological matterevolves based on changing their environment.

Influencing is not re-creating...just interfering.