A New Era Of Computing Is Upon Us.

[patrickjp93]

Yeah, but Intel is not going to sell Iris Pro for $150. I'm a lot more excited with budget offerings rather than the super high end.

You think so? EDRAM was expensive to implement the first time, yes, but do people really think Carrizo with HBM will be cheap?

[patrickjp93]

Your talking about the very expensive ($300+) Iris Pro 6200 and trying to compare it to AMDs current/future APUs - which will still be more budget-oriented. These aren't competing parts. Someone who only has $200 or less for an APU isn't going to even look at a $350+ i7, even if it performs better.

If you want to compare properly, you have to look at price point and target usage. Right now, as it stands, Intel has nothing to compete with the strength of AMDs APUs at the 7850k's price point and below. When Intel delivers a sub $200 CPU with an iGPU strong enough to compete against the A10-7850K or it's successor(s), then we'll talk.

It's an entirely valid comparison. AMD has to increase cache and/or implement HBM on its Carrizo for it to be a worthy gaming SOC. That will not come cheap.

[cubercaleb]

America beats the world to almost everything. Screw other countries for being dependent. That said, the Graphene problem was fixed a while ago. Google Graphene battery record reverse capacitance. Defect free Graphene in mass production is here.

Gosh no, America is soo far behind in education, healthcare, and a bunch of other crap. Compared to other first world countries America is terrible. Also, if there really is a cheap way to manufacture graphene than why isn't it being used?

[ForsakenLive]

You think so? EDRAM was expensive to implement the first time, yes, but do people really think Carrizo with HBM will be cheap?

yep, around $200 for the flagship and several models between $100 and $170, they've been working closely with Hynix this year I'm sure they will pull something out.

[patrickjp93]

Gosh no, America is soo far behind in education, healthcare, and a bunch of other crap. Compared to other first world countries America is terrible. Also, if there really is a cheap way to manufacture graphene than why isn't it being used?

America subsidizes your healthcare costs because the device manufacturers know we will pay for them. We still have the best doctors and the best doctor accountability. Being able to sue your doctor is why we have such high-profile clientele. I agree on education, but that's about it. As per Graphene, the method is patented and the inventors are looking for the highest bidder at the moment. The method was just revealed a couple weeks ago.

[patrickjp93]

yep, around $200 for the flagship and several models between $100 and $170, they've been working closely with Hynix this year I'm sure they will pull something out.

Nope, $260 minimum for an HBM chip. It's not cheap stuff. There might be various SKUs such as Intel's HD 4000/4600/Iris Pro 5200. The HBM one would be the enthusiast platform.

[ForsakenLive]

Nope, $260 minimum for an HBM chip. It's not cheap stuff. There might be various SKUs such as Intel's HD 4000/4600/Iris Pro 5200. The HBM one would be the enthusiast platform.

Bold claims, let's see what 2015 and 2016 have ready for us.

[patrickjp93]

Bold claims, let's see what 2015 and 2016 have ready for us.

Truer words. it's just too bad it's the same 28nm process again. AMD needs to catch a break.

[ForsakenLive]

Truer words. it's just too bad it's the same 28nm process again. AMD needs to catch a break.

28nm again? damn! I though TSMC was ready for the 20nm requests

[Deletive]

I can't wait to get some sick HSA servers going... like can you image a bunch of APU's beating some xeon and xeon phi's?

With HSA all around I really think Intel should adopt it. everyone else did and ARM is getting in on it. Samsung already has a Exynos that somewhat has some features of it.

 

[patrickjp93]

28nm again? damn! I though TSMC was ready for the 20nm requests

Only for big clients like Qualcomm and Samsung. And those are different processes. With Maxwell still coming out on 28nm did you really think AMD had gotten to 20? That's why I keep saying I'll withhold judgment of AMD's product until Carrizo's successor.

[patrickjp93]

I can't wait to get some sick HSA servers going... like can you image a bunch of APU's beating some xeon and xeon phi's?

With HSA all around I really think Intel should adopt it. everyone else did and ARM is getting in on it. Samsung already has a Exynos that somewhat has some features of it.

Earth to Delet

[patrickjp93]

I can't wait to get some sick HSA servers going... like can you image a bunch of APU's beating some xeon and xeon phi's?

With HSA all around I really think Intel should adopt it. everyone else did and ARM is getting in on it. Samsung already has a Exynos that somewhat has some features of it.

Earth to Deletive... Skylake?

Ack, sorry, double post.

[Deletive]

Earth to Delet

 

Earth to Deletive... Skylake?

Ack, sorry, double post.

Skylake is to have it but it doesn't mean completely mean they'll be using the HSA Coding.

[patrickjp93]

Skylake is to have it but it doesn't mean completely mean they'll be using the HSA Coding.

Intel will probably develop its own and due to its market share will see high adoption whereas AMD will barely have any. It's sad but we know this is likely.

[Deletive]

Intel will probably develop its own and due to its market share will see high adoption whereas AMD will barely have any. It's sad but we know this is likely.

It's really sad... maybe AMD could just force them to use it in trade for 64bit maybe? 

But intel does have the money to make some intense stuff so I guess it can't be that bad but again we haven't seen true full HSA so I can't really speak on that.

[Inkz]

I thought this was known for a while.

[MEC-777]

It's an entirely valid comparison. AMD has to increase cache and/or implement HBM on its Carrizo for it to be a worthy gaming SOC. That will not come cheap.

Ok, let's look at this from another perspective. 

 

We know gaming doesn't require a bleeding edge high-end CPU, but does require a strong GPU. Until now, Intel's iGPU have been pretty darn weak. Much weaker than the high-end Trinity/Richland and especially Kaveri APUs. Intel has only recently "caught up" to AMD in iGPU performance with Iris Pro - which they paired with an i7 (completely unnecessary for gaming, especially with an iGPU) and it costs an arm and a leg. So what AMD can do for $180, Intel has supposedly matched for $350. Again, I'm talking about gaming performance. Now, if they pair Iris Pro with a Pentium G3258 or entry level i3 and sold it for under $200, then we could call it a "valid comparison". 

 

Like I said before, those who are in the market for a sub $200 APU are not going to look at a $350+ part, therefore it's performance doesn't matter (to them). And the person who can afford at $350 CPU isn't looking for an APU because they most likely can also afford an R9-290 or GTX 780 or two. You see where I'm going with this?

 

We can bet Carrizo will be stronger on the CPU and GPU side but I highly doubt it's price will suddenly jump to $300+ to compete with Iris Pro at that price point. However, I will bet that it will compete with Iris Pro in terms of gaming prowess.

 

I get that you're knowledgeable with the different architectures of AMD/Intel and such, but the way you're making comparisons is like apples to oranges. You're not taking price point or performance per dollar into account. 

[patrickjp93]

Ok, let's look at this from another perspective.

We know gaming doesn't require a bleeding edge high-end CPU, but does require a strong GPU. Until now, Intel's iGPU have been pretty darn weak. Much weaker than the high-end Trinity/Richland and especially Kaveri APUs. Intel has only recently "caught up" to AMD in iGPU performance with Iris Pro - which they paired with an i7 (completely unnecessary for gaming, especially with an iGPU) and it costs an arm and a leg. So what AMD can do for $180, Intel has supposedly matched for $350. Again, I'm talking about gaming performance. Now, if they pair Iris Pro with a Pentium G3258 or entry level i3 and sold it for under $200, then we could call it a "valid comparison".

Like I said before, those who are in the market for a sub $200 APU are not going to look at a $350+ part, therefore it's performance doesn't matter (to them). And the person who can afford at $350 CPU isn't looking for an APU because they most likely can also afford an R9-290 or GTX 780 or two. You see where I'm going with this?

We can bet Carrizo will be stronger on the CPU and GPU side but I highly doubt it's price will suddenly jump to $300+ to compete with Iris Pro at that price point. However, I will bet that it will compete with Iris Pro in terms of gaming prowess.

I get that you're knowledgeable with the different architectures of AMD/Intel and such, but the way you're making comparisons is like apples to oranges. You're not taking price point or performance per dollar into account.

AMD's future APUs do have the advantage of XFire with GCN. That said, no. Without HBM AMD still has the bandwidth issue which chokes all of its chips. More than half the cost of an Intel chip is the cache. AMD's prices will spike, they will take a loss on Carrizzo, or the performance is choked. There's no 4th option.

And people would buy the Intel solution if they could be assured they wouldn't need a discrete card for X years.

[MEC-777]

AMD's future APUs do have the advantage of XFire with GCN. That said, no. Without HBM AMD still has the bandwidth issue which chokes all of its chips. More than half the cost of an Intel chip is the cache. AMD's prices will spike, they will take a loss on Carrizzo, or the performance is choked. There's no 4th option.

And people would buy the Intel solution if they could be assured they wouldn't need a discrete card for X years.

They would not buy the Intel if they simply did not have $350 for an APU that's way overkill on the CPU side and doesn't provide that much more on the GPU side. 

 

We can speculate all day, but the truth is; we don't really know how they will stack up until the parts hit the shelves in the next year or so. But I will say that you can't simply ignore performance per dollar and price point - which we can safely assume AMD will try to maintain an advantage in.