Windows 98 Graphics Card

[Jojo0607]

I have a dumb question and one probably no one is going to really have an answer for but I would like to know what graphics card would be best for my Windows 98SE machine. It's an old Packard Bell machine on socket 7 with a Pentium 166mhz, 128mb EDO RAM, and running on a cf card. Current card is a Matrox Millennium II Power desk as the dedicated. Built into the board is a Strix S3 if I remember correctly.

[danalog]

Well what are you looking to do on it? Games? Just general usage? You want PCI cards I assume? 

If PCI, FX 5200 and GeForce 4 cards are pretty cheap.

If AGP, Radeon 9200 cards are also quite inexpensive. 

[Dedayog]

2 minutes ago, Jojo0607 said:

I have a dumb question and one probably no one is going to really have an answer for but I would like to know what graphics card would be best for my Windows 98SE machine. It's an old Packard Bell machine on socket 7 with a Pentium 166mhz, 128mb EDO RAM, and running on a cf card. Current card is a Matrox Millennium II Power desk as the dedicated. Built into the board is a Strix S3 if I remember correctly.

Is that an AGP card?  

[Jojo0607]

5 minutes ago, Dedayog said:

Is that an AGP card?  

No PCI only sadly which isn't bad just a bit harder to find stuff for sometimes

[Jojo0607]

8 minutes ago, danalog said:

Well what are you looking to do on it? Games? Just general usage? You want PCI cards I assume? 

If PCI, FX 5200 and GeForce 4 cards are pretty cheap.

If AGP, Radeon 9200 cards are also quite inexpensive. 

I have done some research and those are the same cards everyone seems to also say for PCI. It's really for general use as idk what stronger CPU I can put into the system or if I can find an MMX Pentium to throw in. I would like to play old DOS games or era appropriate games if I can find the PC game discs.

[jaslion]

1 minute ago, Jojo0607 said:

old DOS games

The matrox will do nicely.

 

2 minutes ago, Jojo0607 said:

era appropriate games if I can find the PC game disc

Well its important to know what games because some games work much better with other hardware or some legit dont even launch with some.

 

If you want a proper retro 98se system just get a pentium 3 1ghz+ (some p4 boards also will do) + random agp gpu that supports 98.

[Dedayog]

6 minutes ago, Jojo0607 said:

No PCI only sadly which isn't bad just a bit harder to find stuff for sometimes

IIRC I had an 8800GTS card back then.

 

8800gts for sale | eBay

 

[thevictor390]

4 minutes ago, Dedayog said:

IIRC I had an 8800GTS card back then.

 

8800gts for sale | eBay

 

You're off by about 10 years unfortunately. That's PCI Express.

[Dedayog]

Just now, thevictor390 said:

You're off by about 10 years unfortunately. That's PCI Express.

OMG really?  Must have been my Windows XP days then.   

 

Was I still using my Voodoo 2 8MB add-in card?

[Pusbucket]

 

22 minutes ago, Jojo0607 said:

I have a dumb question and one probably no one is going to really have an answer for but I would like to know what graphics card would be best for my Windows 98SE machine. It's an old Packard Bell machine on socket 7 with a Pentium 166mhz, 128mb EDO RAM, and running on a cf card. Current card is a Matrox Millennium II Power desk as the dedicated. Built into the board is a Strix S3 if I remember correctly.

this guy has a ton of parts from that era and before;

https://www.ebay.com/str/recycle1234unioncity?_trksid=p4429486.m3561.l161211

[Pusbucket]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/297966293584?_skw=pci+video+card&itmmeta=01KGMSX4T7KCSRQECE8MFCHAZ8&hash=item45602cd250:g:FXEAAeSw1KVpdXo0&itmprp=enc%3AAQALAAAA8O7PUuNWmJ%2B%2BUShgI9tQz%2FrO8mZ9lvJw4%2Fpb4MajFJtly%2BfzwMTdgDAZeHFT5r7KXHyYHyhp3S87hPUYakG%2FBBk290bMN0Ydd5MqQ%2Bv7GN4Y0XfyOY7YVKX8zCjtMqqmKJ7YAuQ9TCjmm8OwvO7Md2Qyt8%2FBiikdoFWM%2F5ZUAdjoJRgGfW4H76Fg54dI8ClE1wgeLG24%2FrRyB%2FB96fzVICoYtgWhLHlNcChqeCsQ1SfsuELhF1koscYPbWLTYvUNGh6W4uceJRuiDwqDV2LYOmHGiILp8ow3N1O9q92AnJnj0o9OPGrvqqfYvHQKdmQPUw%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR6rN9JmFZw

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/147132225241?_skw=pci+video+card&itmmeta=01KGMSX4T7SZRTP465BS8T7TNN&hash=item2241c396d9:g:B7sAAeSwz5JpgNTo&itmprp=enc%3AAQALAAAA0O7PUuNWmJ%2B%2BUShgI9tQz%2FrpYHNEBVZAn507sZoRFrSSqZCqnUQf3%2B3gmE4tLOE17XSr9uGA2fhYqvE2IXnRKqkWTGz%2FZjNi1hpaUxISXiN2HNGsptdlcfxlu%2FFvvFkQkW1TKRabCPO9Pr9mnC42Pbjkmw1qbMaUIQ222DknX8rSvh15ubGjwulYyXkfIPSTUErlcSzkuvVZwwKscz56qFyqoM0LGkaG0Zt1fVWVLb9U%2FQGaAC54E2QaMnEGh0O8obwFWKddkVHi1PkJEpOV7wE%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR6zN9JmFZw

 

and there's more, just the search doesn't differentiate between PCI & PCIe

 

and you can still download drivers;

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/drivers/details/11/

[StDragon]

Best depends on what your needs are. If it's 3D card in PCI form (DirectX, OpenGL), you my have issues trying to run UniVBE in pure DOS mode for 2D acceleration (boost the FPS in games like DukeNukem 3D).

So, you want the best 2D, 3D, or a good all-rounder that will have some compromises?

Back in that era, I had an S3 968 PCI card for 2D, and leaned on a Voodoo card for 3D as a secondary PCI card. IMHO that's a better approach.

[MadAnt250]

1 hour ago, danalog said:

Well what are you looking to do on it? Games? Just general usage? You want PCI cards I assume? 

If PCI, FX 5200 and GeForce 4 cards are pretty cheap.

If AGP, Radeon 9200 cards are also quite inexpensive. 

I think I have an FX 5500 AGP card laying around somewhere. I don't know what people want for them now.

[Jojo0607]

1 hour ago, StDragon said:

Best depends on what your needs are. If it's 3D card in PCI form (DirectX, OpenGL), you my have issues trying to run UniVBE in pure DOS mode for 2D acceleration (boost the FPS in games like DukeNukem 3D).

So, you want the best 2D, 3D, or a good all-rounder that will have some compromises?

Back in that era, I had an S3 968 PCI card for 2D, and leaned on a Voodoo card for 3D as a secondary PCI card. IMHO that's a better approach.

I don't know what would be best for this age of system. I would like to use as much of this working system as possible due to both aging parts and said parts more than likely getting harder to find as the days go by. I want to keep as much compatibility with the age appropriate applications and games, but due to my lack of knowledge on how things worked for the time. I don't know what my paths are to meet this or if it's even possible.

[StDragon]

22 minutes ago, Jojo0607 said:

I don't know what would be best for this age of system. I would like to use as much of this working system as possible due to both aging parts and said parts more than likely getting harder to find as the days go by. I want to keep as much compatibility with the age appropriate applications and games, but due to my lack of knowledge on how things worked for the time. I don't know what my paths are to meet this or if it's even possible.

So what are your ultimate goals?

The problem with Packard Bells is that upgradability was limited. For example, the MB would be traced out for the PCI slot, but the actual plastic slot would be missing. Many OEMs cheaped out and segmented the market that way to up-sell.

So are you wanting to upgrade that system as-is to maximize its potential for historical retro reasons? Or is there a specifc set of games you wish to run?

Seems you're not looking for any nostalgia, but rather take a dive into an era of PCs you've never experienced first hand. Nothing wrong with that, but no point in throwing hardware at a platform you're not going to be taking advantage of.

[Jojo0607]

11 minutes ago, StDragon said:

So what are your ultimate goals?

The problem with Packard Bells is that upgradability was limited. For example, the MB would be traced out for the PCI slot, but the actual plastic slot would be missing. Many OEMs cheaped out and segmented the market that way to up-sell.

So are you wanting to upgrade that system as-is to maximize its potential for historical retro reasons? Or is there a specifc set of games you wish to run?

Seems you're not looking for any nostalgia, but rather take a dive into an era of PCs you've never experienced first hand. Nothing wrong with that, but no point in throwing hardware at a platform you're not going to be taking advantage of.

Upgrade as is for retro reason. Anything extra is a bonus. Honestly I don't even know what games were and weren't good except for Doom and maybe Quake if that can run on a Pentium 166mhz.

[StDragon]

7 minutes ago, Jojo0607 said:

Upgrade as is for retro reason. Anything extra is a bonus. Honestly I don't even know what games were and weren't good except for Doom and maybe Quake if that can run on a Pentium 166mhz.

• Doom
• Quake
• Duke Nukem 3D
• Shadow Warrior
• Blood
• Command & Conquer
• C&C Red Alert
• Diablo
• StarCraft
• Warcraft 2

just to name a few

[Tan3l6]

Strife

Betrayal at Krondor

Dune 2000

X-Com

Civilization II

 

Homeworld (original series)

[Jojo0607]

4 minutes ago, StDragon said:

• Doom
• Quake
• Duke Nukem 3D
• Shadow Warrior
• Blood
• Command & Conquer
• C&C Red Alert
• Diablo
• StarCraft
• Warcraft 2

just to name a few

 

Just now, Tan3l6 said:

Strife

Betrayal at Krondor

Dune 2000

X-Com

Civilization 2 

 

 

Ok so if I wanted to run these games with this system would I need to upgrade anything or would they work as is?

[Pusbucket]

any of the games pictured in this post should work;

https://linustechtips.com/topic/90677-show-off-your-old-and-retro-computer-parts/?do=findComment&comment=16810558

 

 

except Skyrim

 

[StDragon]

13 minutes ago, Jojo0607 said:

 

Ok so if I wanted to run these games with this system would I need to upgrade anything or would they work as is?

Yes, 128MB of EDO RAM is the best you could get for that system. I'm guessing the MB is a Intel 430VX or TX chipset?  There's a known issue where only the first 64MB was cached in L2. So you might actually get better performance leaving 64MB of RAM installed. You'll have to try and see.

As for your S3 Trio, that was a mainstream video chip used in OEM computers. It was "ok", but an S3 968 was way better (specifically if it had 2MB of VRAM or greater). There are better cards that can do 3D as well.

[Jojo0607]

8 minutes ago, StDragon said:

Yes, 128MB of EDO RAM is the best you could get for that system. I'm guessing the MB is a Intel 430VX or TX chipset?  There's a known issue where only the first 64MB was cached in L2. So you might actually get better performance leaving 64MB of RAM installed. You'll have to try and see.

As for your S3 Trio, that was a mainstream video chip used in OEM computers. It was "ok", but an S3 968 was way better (specifically if it had 2MB of VRAM or greater). There are better cards that can do 3D as well.

The S3 Trio is integrated into the MB. The dedicated card is the Matrox Millennium II Powerdesk with 8mb of VRAM but I don't know for sure as that's the research I did. I need to find a hardware identifier application of some kind for this system. I doubt there is many though and how much they say will vary wildly is my guess.

[Jojo0607]

If I remember the exact computer by name, it's a Packard Bell Multimedia D160. At least it's a Packard Bell in that general case style because I have noticed it's used for multiple different Multimedia lines.

[StDragon]

15 minutes ago, Jojo0607 said:

If I remember the exact computer by name, it's a Packard Bell Multimedia D160. At least it's a Packard Bell in that general case style because I have noticed it's used for multiple different Multimedia lines.

"Multimedia" in the 90s was the buzzword to what "AI" is today.

So much of that legacy info has been scrubbed from the Internet. Old manuals, flash bios images...gone!

From what I've found online the motherboard is a Packard Bell R02897636. That might be useful if you run into anything else.

For retro site, look into https://www.vogons.org/. It's not the easiest site to search through, but it's better than nothing at least.

[Pusbucket]

@Jojo0607

found some info, is this the right pc?

 

https://vintage-packard-bell.fandom.com/wiki/Multimedia_D160

 

motherboard:

https://theretroweb.com/motherboards/s/intel-pl430fx-advanced-pl-thousand-oaks