College Crisis.

[internetnick]

Hello everyone, I'm not sure if there is a better place to post this but general seemed okay. 

For some background knowledge, I completed high school with 34 college credit / over half an associates degree. I have an okay resume that includes management experience and attending a short 2 week engineering program at Georgia Tech. I thought I would fit in computer science the best but the math and theoretical parts (most of it) have me at a cross roads; I like coding but am extremely more interested in more IT related topics (Sever management, setting up networking, mass storage systems, etc.) 

I live in Buffalo NY and have attended the University at Buffalo (UB) for a complete year now. The fall semester I was majoring in computer science. The actual computer science courses interested me but calculus 2 had me questioning computer science as a whole. I had to drop the course because my grade was so low but did well in my other classes. I decided I may not be fit for computer science after the fall semester ended and attempted to transfer to the IT program. I was denied for my low GPA (some college classes in high school were low grades) but was told to take IT courses and reapply. This semester (Spring) I took the beginnings to IT courses and as well as I did, I don't believe my GPA will be raised enough to qualify for admission. Currently I have an IT internship through an Americorp position. This pays for my living expenses and provides an educational grant ($3500) that I plan to put towards my loans and potentially COMPTIA certification tests.  After this semester I will have enough credits to be a considered a junior.  This leaves me with a few options. 

Option One: Continue to go to the University at Buffalo as an undecided major but taking IT classes and continue to try and raise my GPA. Grants and financial aid would allow me to attend for extremely cheap. I would essentially be gambling on myself to do very well in my classes to be able to be in the IT major. UB isn't the most recognized college for technology but one of the better colleges in the state for the price. If I don't end up doing well in these classes I would have to switch to a major that would accept me or trans schools. This would also keep me from working more.

Option Two: I could stay in computer science and try to just push my way through it and potentially suffer. 

Option Three: I could transfer colleges altogether to somewhere in Buffalo or to an online program that would accept me into an IT program. I have seen that Western Governors University's (WGU) IT program is strong and affordable in my case. I contacted them about admission and I would be accepted into IT. Online would also allow me to work more hours and pay off the loans I am taking and also put less stress on bills. 

Option Four: Consider a different major I am less interested in. UB would allow me to go into business based majors, or less technology focused majors. 

Option Five: Try to just get a lot of COMPTIA certifications and find a full time job instead of college. 

I am sorry if this is poorly formatted or confusing. 

[dizmo]

Honestly I think you'd probably have more stable future job options with a business major, especially in terms of coding. With the rise of AI I don't see that being a field that is going to be worth pursuing. It's sort of like saying you want a factory job when they were installing the very first automated machines; the writing is on the wall, it's only a matter of time.

 

I think Linus said something about COMPTIA certs not meaning a whole lot for a lot of places. You'd also have to bring a strong portfolio of work.

 

As for the potentially suffering part; welcome to adulthood.

[RONOTHAN##]

2 hours ago, internetnick said:

Option Two: I could stay in computer science and try to just push my way through it and potentially suffer. 

At least knowing the couple of friends who are comp sci grads, you really don't want to go for comp sci at the moment. Job market for it is extremely slim, and unless you know a guy you're not going to get a job in this field (I know a guy who actually had an interviewer tell him, for a job that advertised no experience necessary, they were looking for someone with more experience). If you really want to go into IT or into programming, do as much as you can to get a good portfolio together rather than go to school. 

 

Going for a business degree is probably your better option though if you want job security out of school. Either that or go for an engineering degree, though seeing how you're struggling with the math aspect that might not be the best option.

[saintlouisbagels]

20 hours ago, RONOTHAN## said:

At least knowing the couple of friends who are comp sci grads, you really don't want to go for comp sci at the moment. Job market for it is extremely slim, and unless you know a guy you're not going to get a job in this field

That's actually why I chose to start my Computer Science degree this year. I have several friends in different companies all in Software roles, so I think maybe I could get my foot in the door. And besides that, I currently work at a Fortune 500 company and I trust that I can find some kind of role to internally transfer to.

 

22 hours ago, internetnick said:

Option Three: I could transfer colleges altogether to somewhere in Buffalo or to an online program that would accept me into an IT program.

I'm currently enrolled in SNHU (Southern NH University) as a Computer Science major and I find the workload extremely do-able... so far!

1 year = 6 terms x 8 weeks per term
Each class = 3 credits = ~$950 per class
I'm doing 2 classes per term, so ~$1900 every 8 weeks and ~$11400 per year, which isn't bad especially since my job has allotted me $15K/yr

 

I didn't shop around that much for options, but I have a couple of coworkers, including my Senior Manager, enrolled there and they vouch for it.

 

They have a bunch of Bachelor's programs that are 100% online.

[cmndr]

Computer Science is a degree largely focused on the mathematical aspects of computation. It's not too far removed from applied math, though there's certainly applied aspects of IT, SWE, Hardware, etc. with the curriculum varying by program. 

If you can't see yourself doing alright in an Applied Math major, don't do too much CS. Maybe a minor but... 

There's often Business Information Systems majors or similar, which could be a path forward. 

Also Comptia certs haven't mattered much for a VERY long time. 
 

Also try to avoid online programs with low admissions requirements. If ANYONE with a pulse can get into the program, the reputation of the program will be pretty mediocre. College is largely about putting in time and resources to signal that you have more than a pulse. If you DO transfer, try to get into a place on this list. Doesn't need to be at the top of the list. https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities?_sort=rank&_sortDirection=asc (it does look like UB is somewhere on there which is a good thing)

Context - have a quantitative undergraduate and graduate degree, work "in tech" but not in IT. I was IT adjacent for ~5 years for an F100 company. They basically consolidated everything into AWS/Azure and ripped up most of their infra. IT as a field is either "drying up" or morphing depending on how you define it. No need to set up 1000 servers (read: entire IT department) when you can spin up a some VMs and/or containers (read: a handful of people configuring cloud services). 

[wasab]

On 4/27/2025 at 6:54 PM, internetnick said:

Hello everyone, I'm not sure if there is a better place to post this but general seemed okay. 

For some background knowledge, I completed high school with 34 college credit / over half an associates degree. I have an okay resume that includes management experience and attending a short 2 week engineering program at Georgia Tech. I thought I would fit in computer science the best but the math and theoretical parts (most of it) have me at a cross roads; I like coding but am extremely more interested in more IT related topics (Sever management, setting up networking, mass storage systems, etc.) 

I live in Buffalo NY and have attended the University at Buffalo (UB) for a complete year now. The fall semester I was majoring in computer science. The actual computer science courses interested me but calculus 2 had me questioning computer science as a whole. I had to drop the course because my grade was so low but did well in my other classes. I decided I may not be fit for computer science after the fall semester ended and attempted to transfer to the IT program. I was denied for my low GPA (some college classes in high school were low grades) but was told to take IT courses and reapply. This semester (Spring) I took the beginnings to IT courses and as well as I did, I don't believe my GPA will be raised enough to qualify for admission. Currently I have an IT internship through an Americorp position. This pays for my living expenses and provides an educational grant ($3500) that I plan to put towards my loans and potentially COMPTIA certification tests.  After this semester I will have enough credits to be a considered a junior.  This leaves me with a few options. 

Option One: Continue to go to the University at Buffalo as an undecided major but taking IT classes and continue to try and raise my GPA. Grants and financial aid would allow me to attend for extremely cheap. I would essentially be gambling on myself to do very well in my classes to be able to be in the IT major. UB isn't the most recognized college for technology but one of the better colleges in the state for the price. If I don't end up doing well in these classes I would have to switch to a major that would accept me or trans schools. This would also keep me from working more.

Option Two: I could stay in computer science and try to just push my way through it and potentially suffer. 

Option Three: I could transfer colleges altogether to somewhere in Buffalo or to an online program that would accept me into an IT program. I have seen that Western Governors University's (WGU) IT program is strong and affordable in my case. I contacted them about admission and I would be accepted into IT. Online would also allow me to work more hours and pay off the loans I am taking and also put less stress on bills. 

Option Four: Consider a different major I am less interested in. UB would allow me to go into business based majors, or less technology focused majors. 

Option Five: Try to just get a lot of COMPTIA certifications and find a full time job instead of college. 

I am sorry if this is poorly formatted or confusing. 

People major in CS mostly to be a software developer and the job market for such jobs are kinda horseshit nowadays. Speaking as someone with over 3 years of professional experience, and have been job hunting casually for the past 6 months. I have been mock interviewing with veterans who had over 10 years of experience with like 5 years+ of FAANG companies on their resume and in a worse shape than me, like literally unemployed for over a year after laidoffs.

 

with that said, ask yourself what you want to do after school exactly? CS is a straightfoward ticket to software development which like i said, is seriously competitive nowadays. You will need more than just school but also grinding leetcode outside of school to be a competitive candidate for many of the entry level job positions, which require serious personal commitment and discipline to stay on track. It is a bit overkill for IT, which is both good and bad, good in that you will have a leg up over your competition if you do graduate with a CS, bad in that CS is generally more difficult than an IT degree(very math and logic heavy) and so requires far more commitment from you due to the rigorous coursework.

 

people with good study habits, motivations, and work ethics can brute-force a good grade at just about anything really, it matters ZERO how "intelligent" you are or even if you like what you study or not. it is total garbage/crap and nothing more than excuses people like to tell themselves. Success only depends on how much you want it and how desperately you want it. if you think it is worth it to study like a madman, grind, and experience through the pain to pull your grades up, I can guarantee that you will 100% be able to do the work and manage to pull your grades up, just be prepare to have absolutely no life outside of your coursework until this is over. Go have a genuine self-reflection and ask yourself if you are willing to do this. if you think it is not worth it, it is also okay, go change major to business or IT, IT is just a mixture of business and technology anyway. 

 

Lastly, i would avoid online degree like WGU, not that they are bad per se but online degrees usually have abysmal graduation rates, 50% or more of the students drop out rather than completing their degree. I also attended UB for a year and a half. i say it is very cheap school for the tuition dollar. i would suggest stay with that school rather than transferring. I did not like the city, it is a rust belt and too much snow but hey, at least the cost of living there is dirt cheap. 

[SpaceGhostC2C]

I-m going off the very limited information one can get in 1 forum post, but it seems to me that you like computers, but you don't like computer science. Just like you may like airplanes but have no interest in a physics degree. From that perspective,

On 4/27/2025 at 6:54 PM, internetnick said:

Option Two: I could stay in computer science and try to just push my way through it and potentially suffer. 

sounds like a bad idea, as you'd be fighting your way through it to hopefully graduate in CS to then apply to jobs that don't need CS, since it's not what you want to do.

[internetnick]

Update:

First off the internship I was working was suspended because of DOGE so rip...I already have a couple interviews scheduled. 
 

On the other hand, I will most likely be staying at UB and doing something more business oriented that I know I can excel in and have good job security. I'm also going to minor in computer science to keep some technology / software interest in my degree. I didn't know who to turn to and you all were very helpful! Thank you!

[wasab]

8 hours ago, internetnick said:

Update:

First off the internship I was working was suspended because of DOGE so rip...I already have a couple interviews scheduled. 
 

On the other hand, I will most likely be staying at UB and doing something more business oriented that I know I can excel in and have good job security. I'm also going to minor in computer science to keep some technology / software interest in my degree. I didn't know who to turn to and you all were very helpful! Thank you!

Go work for the New York state government. They are hiring bunch of people this year due to HELPS program. Civil service exam requirements have been mostly waived at the entry level. 

 

Stay away from the federal government. DOGE has been firing people left and right. Kinda crazy how laidoffs is still ongoing and for this year, the number is led by the federal government out of all places. Although there is probably opportunity if you want to be ICE agents. They need all the people they can get for their mass deportations. 

[maplepants]

In terms of actual working IT jobs how much math matters depends a lot on what you're doing but the floor for minimum math knowledge is pretty high compared to other disciplines. You specific mention calculus as a thing you're struggling with and server management as a task you're interested in, alerting and monitoring comes a lot easier to people who are good at calculus. Understanding how error rates change, evaluating parts suppliers based on comparing failure rates from different batches of products, etc are all very valuable for sys admins. A sys admin who has a good understanding of how to monitor and evaluate the hardware their deploying will have a major leg up on one who struggles to understand how to tell whether a given batch of hard drives performed better or worse than you expected.

 

Give yourself the space and mental permission to try and learn this stuff a different way. Look for online crash courses into calculus and try and see if you can find one that explains the topics in a way that clicks for you. Then go back to your school material and see what it looks like under a different light.

 

I did my undergrad in Canada and masters in computer science in England, so this might not hold 1:1 but when I was in school there were loads of tutoring options. Use them. This stuff is hard to learn, but easy to apply once you've got your head around it. One way to think about this is that if the job involves looking at, understanding, or creating graphs then somebody who understands calculus will always out perform someone who doesn't.

 

If you find that it's really not working out for you, but you still want to stick with IT then you can try to be a "Technical Business Analyst". So you'd get a business degree, but keep doing to IT for your hobby and then when you apply for a job you end up being the person on the business analyst team that helps provide a technical foundation to product ideas. When done right, it's valuable work that prevents loads of time being wasted as a business analyst without much technical understanding can sometimes request things that are literally impossible or would have severe technical downsides they hadn't thought of.

 

Every big company is full of people who are basically a layer between the sales/marketing/whatever department and the actual developers / IT people. You can work in that layer.

[ewitte]

For IT most places are going to care about experience, abilities, possibly certifications.  If you run into a place that also "requires" a degree really it can be in anything.  My advice is to do it as cheaply as possible, try not to take out loans and some skill that can help you make it on your own (like Business).  I stopped about 2 years in since I already had the job I was already going to school for.  Now with nearly 30 years of experience it doesn't matter at all.

 

EDIT: I can't tell you the number of times someone with a paper degree came in that couldn't do anything.

 

[Ha-Satan]

I STRONGLY agree with ewitte that doing it as cheaply as possible is seriously important. Getting out of college with little to no debt gives you a massive financial leg up in life, regardless of what job you end up getting.

 

Unless you know for certain that you'll be making six figures right out of college, you should avoid student debt like the plague.

 

I'm in my late 30s and I have friends who make twice as much as me who are drowning financially because of student debt from their early 20s. I have zero debt other than my mortgage and am pretty financially secure despite having a degree in fucking singing and a total household income under $100K.

[cmndr]

On 4/30/2025 at 9:21 AM, Ha-Satan said:

I STRONGLY agree with ewitte that doing it as cheaply as possible is seriously important. Getting out of college with little to no debt gives you a massive financial leg up in life, regardless of what job you end up getting.

 

Unless you know for certain that you'll be making six figures right out of college, you should avoid student debt like the plague.

 

I'm in my late 30s and I have friends who make twice as much as me who are drowning financially because of student debt from their early 20s. I have zero debt other than my mortgage and am pretty financially secure despite having a degree in fucking singing and a total household income under $100K.

This is an "it depends" scenario. 

Being frivilous and wasteful is bad. 
SOME debt is OK. 

For every $10k in debt you take on, if you're able to generate an extra 1,000-2000 a year in income (assuming low interest rate loans), you'll come out ahead. 

Spending $$$ on resume prep, interview prep, working LESS in a "meh" job and taking on an internship that might not pay great but sets you up for the future, etc. can make sense. 
Heck, if you can spend $$$ to do stuff like studying abroad at Oxford or Cambridge or doing ANYTHING that just makes you more impressive and marketable... it helps. 

 

 

On the other side of things... I wish I took on an extra $20k or so in debt. That I worked LESS during undergrad. That I slept more. That I did a few fun trips. That I ate better. That I just... LIVED more. 
By age 30, debt payments on that basically did NOT matter at all. But I would have had a few awesome years. I can't make myself younger. I can't reasonably pause my career. 

Making more money usually beats trying to scrimp and save a bit more. 

[wasab]

people without money worry about money all the time.

people with too much money worry about time and ways to trade money for time all the time. 

[ewitte]

24 minutes ago, wasab said:

people without money worry about money all the time.

people with too much money worry about time and ways to trade money for time all the time. 

TBH time is the only thing that matters its just $$ is needed to basically live up to a point.  You barely need to do anything saving for retirement in your 20's.  It's something like 100x your investment at that point.   If you come out of school burdened by debt you end up having to work to live and can't start saving until your 40-50+ often times you have no time and have to put in 20x the effort.

[wasab]

3 hours ago, ewitte said:

TBH time is the only thing that matters its just $$ is needed to basically live up to a point.  You barely need to do anything saving for retirement in your 20's.  It's something like 100x your investment at that point.   If you come out of school burdened by debt you end up having to work to live and can't start saving until your 40-50+ often times you have no time and have to put in 20x the effort.

Depends on your income out of school. If you work a high paying job, 20k or so debt for a year is pocket change and won't really matter in the grand scale of things. 

 

If you are paycheck to paycheck , that 20k will definitely bankrupt you. 

 

If you look at the student loan statistics, the irony is that more debt a student takes out, actually more likely they will pay it back because these students usually went on to get professional degrees like medical doctor or juris doctor which gave them high earnings potentials and a higher likelihood to pay them back despite the costly loans they had to take out. Students who took out like 100k+ loans have a very high rate of repaying them within 10 years after leaving school. 

 

Students who took out small loans like 20-50k on the other hand are usually struggling financially. Many default or still paying until their deaths because nearly half of them turned out to be college drop outs, meaning they took debt to attend schools but never graduated. 

 

Edit:

This is where I get my information from. 

 

 

[cmndr]

21 hours ago, ewitte said:

TBH time is the only thing that matters its just $$ is needed to basically live up to a point.  You barely need to do anything saving for retirement in your 20's.  It's something like 100x your investment at that point.   If you come out of school burdened by debt you end up having to work to live and can't start saving until your 40-50+ often times you have no time and have to put in 20x the effort.

Depends on income. IT IS VERY worthwhile to do things to have a VERY impressive/interesting resume (leadership in clubs, relevant or impressive internships, experiences abroad, etc.) if you can leverage it to more income. The gap between being better prepared than 30% of college grads (probably underemployed) vs being better prepared than 90% of college grads (60-160k a year income) is BIG. 

 

When I was 23, I was saving around $30k a year (mostly after tax).
As stated, I wish I had taken on more debt and optimized for income a bit more wisely. And life experiences a little bit more. 
I could imagine a scenario where I had $20k more in student loans but made $10k a year more. That would've paid for itself VERY quickly. 

BOTE math (inflation adjusted) is that lifetime income is on the order of 40 years x 50k/year = $2M. It's ok to take a few percent of that (e.g. 2% is 40k) to try to up the number 50-500% if you have a reasonable path to do so (not happening if you're a teacher or social worker, maybe happening if you're a surgeon or an investment banker). 

It's much harder to save and invest if you make minimum wage vs if you make something like $100k a year when you're 23. 

For what it's worth I'm on track to retire by age 40 even with some MAJOR life set backs (bailed out family financially). If I was WAY less frugal and had more debt out of college... "oh no I retire at 42 instead of 40"

[wasab]

1 hour ago, cmndr said:

For what it's worth I'm on track to retire by age 40 even with some MAJOR life set backs (bailed out family financially).

shit, reminds me of my aunt who lost over 2 million US dollars to scammers and her children had to bail her out. 

[cmndr]

8 minutes ago, wasab said:

shit, reminds me of my aunt who lost over 2 million US dollars to scammers and her children had to bail her out. 

Boring index funds, 2FA, have a rule that you don't move more than a few percent of your assets unless you had plans to do so months in advance. 

Have a plan to protect against fake kidnapping threats (e.g. no ransom without a key word and no paying ransom without first reaching out to US authorities)

Loss of sanity/judgement is a serious concern on my end. I'll presumably be 80+ someday and the mind matters. 

[wasab]

9 minutes ago, cmndr said:

Snip

She actually loaned someone over 2 million+ dollars who promise to pay back a whooping 33% interest rate yearly. 

 

It actually worked the first year, that guy pay back 33%. I mean like what they say at the casinos. First is free.

 

Seeing the success and out of pure greed, she decided to loan that person all her money, totaling over 2 million+ the second time. Needless to say, that person did not pay back the 2nd time around and she lost all the 2 million+. 

 

Some people just do not understand interest rate, math, and difference between investing and gambling. My parents were shocked when I told them if investing 7k yearly and at 8% interest rate, you would end up with 1 million dollars in just 30 years.

 

With that realization, it is very easy to tell that at 33% yearly rate, you will easily become richer than Elon musk in just a few decades. It is not because of old age and deteriorating mental acumen, it is just fact most people are bad with numbers and money management. 

[cmndr]

3 minutes ago, wasab said:

She actually loaned someone over 2 million+ dollars who promise to pay back a whooping 33% interest rate yearly. 

 

It actually worked the first year, that guy pay back 33%. I mean like what they say at the casinos. First is free.

 

Seeing the success and out of pure greed, she decided to loan that person all her money, totaling over 2 million+ the second time. Needless to say, that person did not pay back the 2nd time around and she lost all the 2 million+. 

 

Some people just do not understand interest rate, math, and difference between investing and gambling. My parents were shocked when I told them if investing 7k yearly and at 8% interest rate, you would end up with 1 million dollars in just 30 years.

 

With that realization, it is very easy to tell that at 33% yearly rate, you will easily become richer than Elon musk in just a few decades. It is not because of old age and deteriorating mental acumen, it is just fact most people are bad with numbers and money management. 

I conceptually understood exponential growth when I was 6 years old. Type 1.1 x = = = = = = and so on a calculator and you'll see if goes from 1.1 to 1.21 to 1.331 to 1.4641 to 1.61051 to 1.771561 to 1.9487171 to 2.14358881 to 2.357947691...
The jump increases each time. 

My basic plan is VOO and chill for 20+ years. At the rate I'm going if I continue to work for 10 more years and save at a moderate rate (by my standards) I'll get to where I can 3x my current spend rate, adjusted for inflation. Assuming no social security. Assuming no inheritance. Assuming no crazy life crises. 

I'm VERY fine with sticking to VOO. I might work longer to basically have a house instead of renting a modest place but even then... ehh... I want to focus on experiences, connections and purpose above materialism. 

[wasab]

5 minutes ago, cmndr said:

I conceptually understood exponential growth when I was 6 years old. Type 1.1 x = = = = = = and so on a calculator and you'll see if goes from 1.1 to 1.21 to 1.331 to 1.4641 to 1.61051 to 1.771561 to 1.9487171 to 2.14358881 to 2.357947691...
The jump increases each time. 

My basic plan is VOO and chill for 20+ years. At the rate I'm going if I continue to work for 10 more years and save at a moderate rate (by my standards) I'll get to where I can 3x my current spend rate, adjusted for inflation. Assuming no social security. Assuming no inheritance. Assuming no crazy life crises. 

I'm VERY fine with sticking to VOO. I might work longer to basically have a house instead of renting a modest place but even then... ehh... I want to focus on experiences, connections and purpose above materialism. 

dude, just save boatloads of money(and invest it, of course), then emigrate to a country like the Philippines, where they offer retirement visas and US dollars stretch a lot more + way lower cost of living. Retire into the sunset. 

 

The easiest way to retire and FIRE early is actually to join the military, ironically enough. They get pensions equal to half of their highest earning salary year, after just 20 years of service, that is adjusted by inflation btw.

 

Assuming you are a commissioned officer, after 20 years, you will become a lieutenant colonel(you will have to or you get booted out),  they get paid like 130k yearly, which means roughly 65k pensions. That may not seem a lot, but using the 4% rule, you will need to have 65k/0.04 = 1.625 million dollars invested in the VOO to equal that passive income. With military TSP(their equivalent of 401k) and matching, plus the fact that the military pays for all the food and housing(no rent and food costs, neat eh?), you can easily end up with another 1 million+ dollars invested in your TSP retirement account giving you another 65k passive income a year. Then combine these two with social security at age 60+, that's roughly another 20k+ inflation-adjusted yearly passive income. Then fly to the Philippines and live the rest of your life there like a king. 

[cmndr]

2 hours ago, wasab said:

dude, just save boatloads of money(and invest it, of course), then emigrate to a country like the Philippines, where they offer retirement visas and US dollars stretch a lot more + way lower cost of living. Retire into the sunset. 

 

The easiest way to retire and FIRE early is actually to join the military, ironically enough. They get pensions equal to half of their highest earning salary year, after just 20 years of service, that is adjusted by inflation btw.

 

Assuming you are a commissioned officer, after 20 years, you will become a lieutenant colonel(you will have to or you get booted out),  they get paid like 130k yearly, which means roughly 65k pensions. That may not seem a lot, but using the 4% rule, you will need to have 65k/0.04 = 1.625 million dollars invested in the VOO to equal that passive income. With military TSP(their equivalent of 401k) and matching, plus the fact that the military pays for all the food and housing(no rent and food costs, neat eh?), you can easily end up with another 1 million+ dollars invested in your TSP retirement account giving you another 65k passive income a year. Then combine these two with social security at age 60+, that's roughly another 20k+ inflation-adjusted yearly passive income. Then fly to the Philippines and live the rest of your life there like a king. 

 

I'm basically saving and investing. 
Going to foreign countries has its own set of trade offs. I could probably retire in the Philippines right now but I'm not. 

The military as its own set of tradeoffs. There's A LOT of people who have permanent, life altering afflictions from their time in the service. It is accessible to more people though. 

If you're using 20 years as a time horizon... you'll end up with more saved working in tech with a life that's much less risky and isolating. 

 

[wasab]

12 minutes ago, cmndr said:

If you're using 20 years as a time horizon... you'll end up with more saved working in tech with a life that's much less risky and isolating. 

well, you have to ask yourself if you can save up 3.2 million dollars in today's money working in tech for 20ish years. that is roughly what the military equivalent is should you take full advantage of their pensions and TSP(which you can take out early using the same FIRE Roth loophole). if you can, i guess more the power to ya but it is not as simple as you make it out to be. I know several people working in California and Seattle's big tech, they are not going to be retiring in their 40s by any means. Living costs in order to be there and work their high-paying jobs is high. Many people scoff at military salaries without realizing service men eat and live for free on base. if not, they will get housing stipends, amounts that go up according to ranks, which are all tax-free income. literally free rent and food. Trauma and etc are different matters. It can happen, but i will mention that the majority of military roles are non-combatants. 

[cmndr]

35 minutes ago, wasab said:

well, you have to ask yourself if you can save up 3.2 million dollars in today's money working in tech for 20ish years. that is roughly what the military equivalent is should you take full advantage of their pensions and TSP(which you can take out early using the same FIRE Roth loophole). if you can, i guess more the power to ya but it is not as simple as you make it out to be. I know several people working in California and Seattle's big tech, they are not going to be retiring in their 40s by any means. Living costs in order to be there and work their high-paying jobs is high. Many people scoff at military salaries without realizing service men eat and live for free on base. if not, they will get housing stipends, amounts that go up according to ranks, which are all tax-free income. literally free rent and food. Trauma and etc are different matters. It can happen, but i will mention that the majority of military roles are non-combatants. 

levels.fyi <- tech salaries. 

 

If you're basically an L5 SWE it's something like 400k a year. Slap 33% to get 266. Live off 66k. Save 200k including 401k. It works out to 4M over 20 years with 0 stock appreciation. 7% market returns above inflation gets you to closer to 8.8M. 
Starting at 30k a year savings and growing it by 10% a year and investing it all also gets you to about the same 3.2M figure you cited. 

I've lived in a high COL area. I was VERY frugal in my 20s and made it work, inflation adjusted, on about 20k a year out of pay check living expenses. I didn't even NEED to do that. 

 

Basically most GOOD careers (not astounding) will more than match the outcome in the military if you live modestly in your earlier years and grow income with time. 
There are A LOT of good ways to get there. Heck for a lot of people you only need the "high pay" for maybe 4-5 years... just to invest it all and to coast. 

https://engaging-data.com/fire-calculator/ <- online calculator if you don't want to do stuff in excel. 

https://engaging-data.com/fire-calculator/?age=22&initsav=0&spend=40000&initinc=70000&wr=4&ir=7.000000000000001&retspend=160000&stockpct=95&fixpct=3&cashpct=2&graph=fix&secgraph=0&stockrtn=8.1&bondrtn=2.4&MCstockrtn=0.081&MCbondrtn=0.024&tax=7&income=0&incstart=50&incend=70&expense=0&expstart=50&expend=70 <- this is a link with a solid but not AMAZING AND OUTSTANDING starting point and assuming consistent career growth (in reality it'll likely be a bit jumpier from job hopping)