AMD vs NVidia for 4k in 2024?

[Helly]

11 hours ago, Aereldor said:

Yeah and it's only in 12 games.

That's anti-lag+, not what i mentioned.

 

On 4/17/2024 at 8:57 PM, Aereldor said:

I intend to use heavy upscaling and frame generation to hit my 4k 120fps target, and DLSS is still by far the best looking upscaler. However, Intel looks to be catching up.

Translation: Upscaling weighs the heaviest in my choice. DLSS is the best upscaler, Intel can't do native 4K@120, so why should i get anything other then Nvidia?

 

There was no "fanboying" in MY post. I don't fanboy. I was literally saying that every time someone says something for the AMD card you explain it away with something it's not good at. Which is fine, you do you. But what you apparently fail to see is that this is you asking why you should buy the AMD over the Nvidia. So you are clearly already leaning towards the Nvidia and want to know why you shouldn't. You may have made an attempt to ask which brand you should get in your original post but ever since you've been asking "why not buy the nvidia", or you might see it as "Am i buying the wrong card when i go for the Nvidia". Which is why i said "you're not asking which brand/card to get".

 

On 4/23/2024 at 12:45 PM, Salted Spinach said:

I am proposing AFMF at native 4K. No upscaling

DLSS is not going to match native image quality.

 no amount of software update will allow the 4070TS to match the XTX in raw raster

This is the best argument i've seen for the AMD and will get you the best image on your screen. But since the framegen is not good enough for you, you should just buy the 4070TS and be happy.

 

I'm also not "ragebaiting" btw, i'm just trying to make the choice easy for you. It is actually fine to buy Nvidia. Anyway... good luck with your choice.

[Aereldor]

9 hours ago, Helly said:

That's anti-lag+, not what i mentioned.

 

Translation: Upscaling weighs the heaviest in my choice. DLSS is the best upscaler, Intel can't do native 4K@120, so why should i get anything other then Nvidia?

 

There was no "fanboying" in MY post. I don't fanboy. I was literally saying that every time someone says something for the AMD card you explain it away with something it's not good at. Which is fine, you do you. But what you apparently fail to see is that this is you asking why you should buy the AMD over the Nvidia. So you are clearly already leaning towards the Nvidia and want to know why you shouldn't. You may have made an attempt to ask which brand you should get in your original post but ever since you've been asking "why not buy the nvidia", or you might see it as "Am i buying the wrong card when i go for the Nvidia". Which is why i said "you're not asking which brand/card to get".

 

This is the best argument i've seen for the AMD and will get you the best image on your screen. But since the framegen is not good enough for you, you should just buy the 4070TS and be happy.

 

I'm also not "ragebaiting" btw, i'm just trying to make the choice easy for you. It is actually fine to buy Nvidia. Anyway... good luck with your choice.

Allow me to help you understand the post, seems like it was insufficient. 

 

I have an AMD GPU and make extensive use of FSR, RSR, and AFMF. FSR 2.x has huge issues with flickering, ghosting, trails, aliasing, and is generally unstable. RSR is for games that don't support FSR. Theoretically better than nothing, but it's in-driver FSR 1.0 and looks bad, even at 1800p upscaled to 2160p. 

 

AFMF is problematic. It introduces a MASSIVE amount of input lag that Radeon Anti-lag cannot compensate for at all. It shuts off during fast movement. The only time you get interpolated frames is during still or slow-moving gameplay; when you least need it. 

 

Comparable AMD cards are about 20% faster in terms of pure raster performance for similar prices. 

 

Native 4k 120 isn't feasible in my budget, I'll be reliant on upscaling. 

 

Currently, FSR isn't competing with DLSS. It's not close.

 

XeSS, however is gaining on DLSS, improving with each update. 

 

Getting an AMD GPU is essentially betting on XeSS DP4A, or FSR incorporating ML upscaling and improving significantly (no idea when). Of course I'd get the faster f***ing GPU if the upscalers are comparable, but they're not. 

 

Unlike some people, I don't believe I know everything and I'm looking for information. 

[Helly]

Helping me understand AMD tech “is trash” is not needed. You said so repeatedly.

 

Let me help you understand some things because you seem to have put the 4090 on some holy pedestal you can dream of to one day hope to own and play glorious 4K120.

 

Budget is NOT the problem when it comes to native 4K120. No card will do that in the latest games. No card will do that for a long LONG time.

 

The most hilarious thing about this whole topic is that you want to choose between a top tier card and a mid tier card. However the top tier card is CLEARLY (seriously it should be clear for yourself as well by now) not an option because the upscaling tech is “trash”. Since you have no other option you can consider there is only 1 left. So why do you need more information? What other information do you think there is to be given other then what is already been given?

If you want more information or options, change your demands. If you take away the 4K120 demand you get a world full of options. 4K90 will immediately put you on the native 4K with the 7900XTX, in most games, even with everything cranked. Well unless you suddenly have a need for raytracing, in which case the only option is Nvidia again, since you dont want to upscale with AMD.

 

so heres ur options:

• 4K120(ish) with upscaling with the 4070TS
• lower your framerate demand and go native 4K with the 7900XTX, hey maybe the upscaler improves or it doesnt bother you that much and use it anyway.
• keep saving money and buy a $3000 5090 at the end of the year and have glorious 4K120 for a year maybe at max settings.

once again, good luck with your choice. Trust me i understand you think AMD tech is trash, you dont have to repeat it once again.

[Aereldor]

On 4/27/2024 at 4:49 AM, Helly said:

Helping me understand AMD tech “is trash” is not needed. You said so repeatedly.

 

you seem to have put the 4090 on some holy pedestal 

 

 the upscaling tech is “trash”. Since you have no other option you can consider there is only 1 left. So why do you need more information? What other information do you think there is to be given other then what is already been given?

with everything cranked. Well unless you suddenly have a need for raytracing

 

you dont want to upscale with AMD.

 

i understand you think AMD tech is trash, you dont have to repeat it once again.

<removed by staff> 

 

Scroll through my replies, and the only time you'll see anything being called 'trash' is 1080p on a 48 inch display. 

 

I've said REPEATEDLY that I think XeSS is useable, FSR however is just better than nothing.

 

I've also said that I don't intend to run anything at max settings.

 

It seems like you're just not reading the posts and want to start a flame war, putting words in my mouth to aid in your goal and generally being as unpleasant as humanly possible. Well... The forum guidelines prevent me from saying what should be said here, so have a nice day

Edited April 28 by SansVarnic
Removed content.

[Helly]

45 minutes ago, Aereldor said:

It seems like you're just not reading the posts

Oh yes i am, you just don't seem to be reading mine. Or have you made your choice?

 

46 minutes ago, Aereldor said:

Scroll through my replies, and the only time you'll see anything being called 'trash' is 1080p on a 48 inch display.

I'm so sorry i interpreted you trash talking AMD tech as calling it trash. That's on me, shouldn't have said it like that, i apologize.

 

48 minutes ago, Aereldor said:

I've also said that I don't intend to run anything at max settings.

Well then the choice is either live with the "not good" upscaler which you will require far less often on the 7900XTX or go with DLSS on the 4070TS. Something you seem to read past is that i have actually been giving you help in your choice, it's just that you don't seem to like the answer, thats on you... not me.

And why not run at max settings when the GPU has the horsepower and is already hitting 120fps... i do it all the time.

 

If you're in the mood i would very much like to know which part of my reaction specifically is "fanboying", because at no point in time have i advocated for either card. I've just applied your reasons on the cards and tried to help you come to the conclusion to buy the 4070TS. I've have not at any point said FSR is amazing, AFMF is amazing or anything about AMD that is amazing. Neither have i trash talked DLSS or anything Nvidia related.

 

I'll admit i can be considered old AF now and don't keep up with the meaning of the words, so i would love to know if the meaning of the word fanboy has changed.

 

So hopefully you can make your choice at some point and i wish you a very good day indeed.

[leadeater]

On 4/18/2024 at 6:57 AM, Aereldor said:

I intend to use heavy upscaling and frame generation to hit my 4k 120fps target, and DLSS is still by far the best looking upscaler. However, Intel looks to be catching up. 

The reality is at the budget (4070TiS / 7900 XTX) specified your desires cannot be met and that will only degrade over time as games get more demanding. You can either accept in general lower frame rate, some games will be higher/lower etc etc, or alternatively not purchase anything at all. The third option is build the gaming PC with a much lower model and cheaper GPU that will be better than what you have as a stop gap and then on sell that later and buy a newer generation or higher end model when/if you are able to.

 

If it is not very self evident that the 4070 Ti Super can do what you want then the simple conclusion is exactly this, it cannot. So if you don't think it can then that is the answer. I don't think it's going to do what you want either but you are the one that is making that final determination.

 

I honestly would not invest $800 in to something that doesn't do what I want so I would be favoring getting something cheaper that will play games perfectly capably and then look at higher end options later.

 

As for that later FSR 3.1 has recently been announced with a number of improvements that address some of the areas that you are not satisfied with

 

Quote

Upscaling image quality improvements:

• Improved temporal stability at rest and in movement – less flickering and/or shimmering and “Fizziness” around objects in motion.
• Ghosting reduction and better preservation of detail.

 

Additionally

Quote

Decoupling FSR 3 upscaling from frame generation:

• Allows FSR 3.1 frame generation technology to work with other upscaling solutions.

This means you can use FSR 3 Frame generation with DLSS or XeSS however I'm unsure of the real practical use for that. This sounds good but realistically sounds only useful to Nvidia owners who aren't allowed/able to use DLSS Frame Generation.

 

https://community.amd.com/t5/gaming/amd-fsr-3-1-announced-at-gdc-2024-fsr-3-available-and-upcoming/ba-p/674027

 

Issue with above is this does not go back and improve existing FSR implementations in games and I would not expect game developers to go update existing games to FSR 3.1 either. So if existing and older games are also important and will remain important then DLSS is going to be better for that reason, assuming FSR 3.1 is a closer parity in the other aspects which we don't have evidence of in either direction.

 

So the long and the short of it is just don't buy anything and wait, buy the 4070TiS knowing it's not going to average 120 FPS or buy something cheaper and upgrade sooner. All I can say is I just don't think 120 FPS is all that important or will improve your actual game playing experience, less than this is going to be sufficient to enjoy playing games.

[Aereldor]

On 4/28/2024 at 1:40 AM, leadeater said:

budget (4070TiS / 7900 XTX) specified your desires cannot be met and that will only degrade over time

Concerned about this. I was gambling on upscaling improving so I could use progressively lower resolutions. For example in XeSS 1.2, the 'quality' profile for 4k was 1440p upscaled to 4k, now it's around 1280p, both of which are in turn lower than older XeSS. 

 

DLSS has also vastly improved. 

 

On 4/28/2024 at 1:40 AM, leadeater said:

alternatively not purchase anything at all

I have to sell my XGM pretty soon or I won't get a very good price for it, which is why I was looking to do this soon  

 

On 4/28/2024 at 1:40 AM, leadeater said:

a stop gap

Is right now a bad time to buy a new GPU? Would waiting for something like a 5070 be a good idea?

 

On 4/28/2024 at 1:40 AM, leadeater said:

FSR 3.1 has recently been announced with a number of improvements

I'm excited about this! Though the list of supported games is really quite small right now. I'm excited to use it in conjunction with XeSS since it's a far better upscaler, but DLSS is just a lot more widely supported, particularly DLSS 3. Also, DLSS frame gen works with VRR, while FSR doesn't

 

On 4/28/2024 at 1:40 AM, leadeater said:

don't buy anything and wait, buy the 4070TiS knowing it's not going to average 120 FPS or buy something cheaper and upgrade sooner.

 

I just don't think 120 FPS is all that important or will improve your actual game playing experience

Well, I don't need 120 locked at native 4k, but I'd definitely like to hit 90-100 fps consistently with settings that are visually similar to native 4k ultra (for me, for example, medium/high on Horizon Forbidden West with XeSS Quality is pretty indistinguishable from Ultra Native 4k (60 vs 20fps on my 6700xt)

[bramturismo]

On 4/30/2024 at 8:56 AM, Aereldor said:

 but I'd definitely like to hit 90-100 fps consistently with settings that are visually similar to native 4k ultra

I'm quoting yourself now from a few posts above:

 

"I've also said that I don't intend to run anything at max settings."

 

Then you cannot expect upscaling to look like native 4K ultra.

 

My 2 cents, for whatever it's worth: Lower your expectations to native 4K60 and go with the XTX card.

[Aereldor]

On 5/3/2024 at 8:36 AM, bramturismo said:

I'm quoting yourself now from a few posts above:

 

"I've also said that I don't intend to run anything at max settings."

 

Then you cannot expect upscaling to look like native 4K ultra.

 

My 2 cents, for whatever it's worth: Lower your expectations to native 4K60 and go with the XTX card.

Native 4k60 is kind of above my expectations. I expected to hit 1440p upscaled to 4k @ 60 and with frame generation to get into the high 90s at least.

 

Why do you say ultra settings are required for upscaling to look like native 4k ultra?

 

Fwiw high and ultra textures (everything else on a blend of medium/high) look the same to me after upscaling from 1440p to 4k on a 48" display in the following titles

 

• Jedi Survivor
• Forza Horizon 5
• Hogwarts Legacy
• Horizon Forbidden West
• Baldur's Gate 3

Using XeSS 1.3 Quality for everything but Jedi Survivor and BG3, where I'm using FSR 2.2 Quality.

[Paul17]

On 4/27/2024 at 5:49 AM, Helly said:

Helping me understand AMD tech “is trash” is not needed. You said so repeatedly.

 

Let me help you understand some things because you seem to have put the 4090 on some holy pedestal you can dream of to one day hope to own and play glorious 4K120.

 

Budget is NOT the problem when it comes to native 4K120. No card will do that in the latest games. No card will do that for a long LONG time.

 

The most hilarious thing about this whole topic is that you want to choose between a top tier card and a mid tier card. However the top tier card is CLEARLY (seriously it should be clear for yourself as well by now) not an option because the upscaling tech is “trash”. Since you have no other option you can consider there is only 1 left. So why do you need more information? What other information do you think there is to be given other then what is already been given?

If you want more information or options, change your demands. If you take away the 4K120 demand you get a world full of options. 4K90 will immediately put you on the native 4K with the 7900XTX, in most games, even with everything cranked. Well unless you suddenly have a need for raytracing, in which case the only option is Nvidia again, since you dont want to upscale with AMD.

 

so heres ur options:

• 4K120(ish) with upscaling with the 4070TS
• lower your framerate demand and go native 4K with the 7900XTX, hey maybe the upscaler improves or it doesnt bother you that much and use it anyway.
• keep saving money and buy a $3000 5090 at the end of the year and have glorious 4K120 for a year maybe at max settings.

once again, good luck with your choice. Trust me i understand you think AMD tech is trash, you dont have to repeat it once again.

It's a major point that the top tier AMD gpu sucks - the tech sucks, the architecture sucks and the overall software stack and support sucks.   To just shrug that off as it's not significant is just AMD fanboy-ism.   

[Paul17]

On 5/3/2024 at 8:36 AM, bramturismo said:

I'm quoting yourself now from a few posts above:

 

"I've also said that I don't intend to run anything at max settings."

 

Then you cannot expect upscaling to look like native 4K ultra.

 

My 2 cents, for whatever it's worth: Lower your expectations to native 4K60 and go with the XTX card.

Why?  AMD gpus are defective right now - plus, the software is bad - if you look at all the complaints about software - sure, this guy is just gaming but it's a bad sign.   The other intangible about the XTX cards is the paste pump-out problem - lots of ppl reporting having to do this.   It's something to keep in mind - the high temps with the memory /hotspots and high junction temps - some ppl who defend the cards say that '90 degrees is normal' - some of these cards get up to 100 degrees.   That's insane!  

 

Not sure what games he plans to play but a 4070 Ti Super won't get that toasty despite being an 'inferior card.'   

[Paul17]

On 4/30/2024 at 2:56 AM, Aereldor said:

Concerned about this. I was gambling on upscaling improving so I could use progressively lower resolutions. For example in XeSS 1.2, the 'quality' profile for 4k was 1440p upscaled to 4k, now it's around 1280p, both of which are in turn lower than older XeSS. 

 

DLSS has also vastly improved. 

 

I have to sell my XGM pretty soon or I won't get a very good price for it, which is why I was looking to do this soon  

 

Is right now a bad time to buy a new GPU? Would waiting for something like a 5070 be a good idea?

 

I'm excited about this! Though the list of supported games is really quite small right now. I'm excited to use it in conjunction with XeSS since it's a far better upscaler, but DLSS is just a lot more widely supported, particularly DLSS 3. Also, DLSS frame gen works with VRR, while FSR doesn't

 

Well, I don't need 120 locked at native 4k, but I'd definitely like to hit 90-100 fps consistently with settings that are visually similar to native 4k ultra (for me, for example, medium/high on Horizon Forbidden West with XeSS Quality is pretty indistinguishable from Ultra Native 4k (60 vs 20fps on my 6700xt)

Personally - if I had the $$, I'd get a gpu now - whatever you can budget/afford - and then enjoy it for as long as you want - you can always sell it later if you must have the latest/greatest next gen.   What happens is that ppl wait assuming the next gen. must be cheaper or better but the improvement for the mid-tier cards aren't that significant a percentage in the end and even if they are - Nvidia and AMD will overcharge for their next gen - and for some reason, ppl will flock to buy them driving up the price further and Nvidia/AMD will not stock very many cards (reducing supply).

 

I would be very reluctant to wait unless the main reason is hoping that the current gen cards will reduce in price - that probably won't happen for the 4070 Ti Super and up - and for the 7900 xt and up - the AMD gpus reduced in price a little but I think the price reductions will be gradual. 

 

What happens is that both Nvidia and AMD stop sending the previous gen gpus to retailers - so that supply dries up - and then prices for them stabilize.   However, it seems that the USA market receives the most discounts so my explanation mostly applies to other regions, I suppose.     

[Helly]

20 hours ago, Paul17 said:

It's a major point that the top tier AMD gpu sucks - the tech sucks, the architecture sucks and the overall software stack and support sucks.   To just shrug that off as it's not significant is just AMD fanboy-ism.   

I've had no problems with any game i play for over 10 years now with AMD cards. When i change something in the software it has the expected effect on the application or game. So for me everything works as i expect it, it's the only way i can judge on how terrible it all is.

So applying your words to this all, you're saying everything except for the 4090 sucks? Cuz the 7900XTX is faster in rasterized rendering in a lot of games then the 4080 super. Hell its faster in pretty much everything compared to the 3090. So if it sucks, that just leaves the 4090? Can't be fanboy-ism from your side for Nvidia cuz that would be weird...

 

anyway, over 15 years ago i pretty much said the exact same thing as you about Nvidia and haven't bought a card from them since. So i'll just assume you've done the same except the other way around, and dismiss ur post entirely. No i am not an AMD fanboy, i f*cking hate Nvidia, so i'm more of an Nvidia hateboy then.... at least i still tell people to buy Nvidia if they want and not completely bash them into the ground with assumptions like you do AMD.

 

20 hours ago, Paul17 said:

AMD gpus are defective right now - plus, the software is bad - if you look at all the complaints about software - sure, this guy is just gaming but it's a bad sign.   The other intangible about the XTX cards is the paste pump-out problem - lots of ppl reporting having to do this.   It's something to keep in mind - the high temps with the memory /hotspots and high junction temps - some ppl who defend the cards say that '90 degrees is normal' - some of these cards get up to 100 degrees.   That's insane!  

 

Not sure what games he plans to play but a 4070 Ti Super won't get that toasty despite being an 'inferior card.'   

My current 7900XTX does not get to 80c no matter what game i play. 80c has been fine for 20 years... no reason why it shouldn't be now. Besides, a GTX 480 and 580 hit ~95 degrees as well, people were also defending them. Were you? The temps a chip hit usually have something to do with the cooling solution, any chip gets to 100 degrees with the wrong cooling on it... even the 4070 Ti Super.

 

Just curious though, if people are having the "paste pump-out problem" and "having to do this", how can it be intangible?

 

People complain when they have problems, they don't compliment when they don't. If you go looking, you'll find plenty of people complaining about Nvidia software and hardware problems. So "Nvidia gpus are defective right now - plus, the software is bad - if you look at all the complaints about software -" can be said as well, if you go off other people's problems on the internet.

 

None of this is any reason to choose 1 brand over the other.