Gaming PC in Fractal Terra Help

[Ringabel]

Budget (including currency): $3000

I'd prefer to not use all of my budget, and I can go a bit over if need be.

 

Country: United States

 

Games, programs or workloads that it will be used for: 

I currently have two 4K 60 fps monitors that I plan on replacing / adding on to before long, they have pretty horrendous ghosting (I think that's the term?) around the edges, but they work well enough for now. I mostly play either fighting games like SF6 that don't benefit as much from higher refresh rates, or more cinematic single player games. My current PC struggles to run BG3 at acceptable conditions, and I can't wait to play Final Fantasy XVI when that comes to PC.

I also do a decent amount of photo and video editing on the side, but that's all as a hobbyist and not that seriously.

 

PCPartPicker Link: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/CQ2RxH

 

Case: Fractal Design Terra
This was the starting point of my build, as soon as I saw this case I fell in love with it. I love the tiny form factor and the wooden accent, matches my style well. Any changes to this system necessitate it still works with this case.

CPU: AMD 7800X3D
As far as I can tell this is the king of both gaming PCs and especially mini-ITX builds, where the lower power draw means that it will stay cooler in a smaller case.

I also do love Intel (I have a close family member who works there and is awesome) but it doesn't seem like they have any compelling competitors.

CPU Cooler: ID-COOLING IS-55 Black 54.6 CFM CPU Cooler
PCPartPicker says this won't fit, but with the case's spine moved, it should fit, and I've seen some builds using it. This seems to be the best CPU cooler that can fit in the case based on reviews I've seen online, and finding one that fits is the biggest concern.

GPU: MSI VENTUS 3X OC GeForce RTX 4080 SUPER
Because of the case, my GPU selection is a bit more limited. I want to have a 4080 at the very least, and this seems to be in the sweet-spot for me. It is only 62 mm wide which gives me more room for the CPU cooler, and only 136 mm tall which should give a bit more room for the power cables.

The MSI GeForce RTX™ 4080 SUPER 16G GAMING X SLIM also seems like a decent option, being the same dimensions but $40 more with a higher boost clock, which I'm not sure is worth it.

The Asus ProArt OC GeForce RTX 4080 SUPER also seems compelling, but is $120 more with an even higher boost clock but an even smaller form factor, being 120 mm tall and 50 mm wide. However I think the smaller form factor doesn't matter enough to shift the needle, it doesn't allow me to get that much better of a CPU cooler.

The 4090 just doesn't seem worth the extra $800 I'd be paying, but I could be convinced otherwise. Likewise, going lower on the GPU would be considered if someone can present a compelling argument.

Motherboard: Gigabyte B650I AORUS ULTRA Mini ITX AM5
I have mixed feelings about this motherboard, but it does offer something that most mini-ITX boards don't seem to: 3 M.2 slots. My plan is to start with a fast 4 TB PCIe gen 4 drive, then potentially get a gen 5 a few years down the road and / or another gen 4 drive to hold more games and such. My current PC has around 6 TB of used drive space, but I could easily cut that down, and I plan on using my current PC as a "NAS" in the interim to get files off whenever I need instead of transferring everything over.

That said, this motherboard has a crazy amount of dongles and weird add-ons, which does put me off a bit. Reading and watching reviews does put me off of it a bit, and I could easily be convinced to get something else.

Storage: Crucial P3 Plus 4 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive
This is one of the components I am the least sure about. I'm not sure how much the drive speeds really matter and even reading different manufacturer's info, it seems a bit over the place.

This drive seems fast enough, its 4 TB which seems to be the sweet spot of big enough for a while but not way more expensive, and allows me to keep my other two M.2 slots open for future expansion.

An issue with this case is there really is no place for a hard drive, which I think I'll miss. It is possible to fit a 2.5" SSD in the front, which I think I might do eventually, but I'll be maxed out at whatever space my M.2 drives have plus the single 2.5" SSD if I choose to do that.

I currently have a 10 TB HDD that I use to store games I don't frequently play, bulk files for image editing I want to save, and movies and shows that I have saved locally, but its currently only about half full.

Memory: TEAMGROUP T-Create Expert 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR5-6000 CL30
RAM is RAM, and this has both the fastest speeds the 7800X3D can handle at 6000MHz, but also competitive latency. At least one of my friends has said to get 48 GB, but getting that much with as low latency is another $70 that I don't know is worth it.

PSU: Phanteks Revolt SFX 850 W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully Modular SFX
This seems to be the best option that is both SFX and not SFX-L, which should give me enough room to install a slim case fan right below the PSU, but also has a 16-pin connector for the GPU. I was tempted to get the Corsair SF750 which is $40 cheaper, is certified via Cybenetics and has more good reviews, but that PSU doesn't have a 16-pin connector and instead needs to combine some other connectors, at least according to PCPP, which I fear would make cable management even harder in an already hard system to cable manage.

 

[Agall]

6 minutes ago, Ringabel said:

Motherboard: Gigabyte B650I AORUS ULTRA Mini ITX AM5
I have mixed feelings about this motherboard, but it does offer something that most mini-ITX boards don't seem to: 3 M.2 slots. My plan is to start with a fast 4 TB PCIe gen 4 drive, then potentially get a gen 5 a few years down the road and / or another gen 4 drive to hold more games and such. My current PC has around 6 TB of used drive space, but I could easily cut that down, and I plan on using my current PC as a "NAS" in the interim to get files off whenever I need instead of transferring everything over.

 

I've got this board and wouldn't buy it again. The front I/O daughterboard is finnicky and I ended up not using it (there's power/reset also on the board next to it). Beside the fact that its one of two motherboards I've had to RMA in my life, its just an overly complicated board.

 

If I had to buy another mITX AM5 board, I'd likely go with this guy:

ASRock B650I LIGHTNING WIFI AM5 Ryzen 7000 AMD B650 SATA 6Gb/s Mini-ITX s DDR5 7200+ (OC) 2.5G LAN x WiFi 6E + Bluetooth Motherboards - AMD - Newegg.com

 

The only B650 board I've seen without a fan too, which isn't a problem if you're building it properly.

[TatamiMatt]

12 minutes ago, Agall said:

I've got this board and wouldn't buy it again. The front I/O daughterboard is finnicky and I ended up not using it (there's power/reset also on the board next to it). Beside the fact that its one of two motherboards I've had to RMA in my life, its just an overly complicated board.

 

If I had to buy another mITX AM5 board, I'd likely go with this guy:

ASRock B650I LIGHTNING WIFI AM5 Ryzen 7000 AMD B650 SATA 6Gb/s Mini-ITX s DDR5 7200+ (OC) 2.5G LAN x WiFi 6E + Bluetooth Motherboards - AMD - Newegg.com

 

The only B650 board I've seen without a fan too, which isn't a problem if you're building it properly.

without a fan?

[jaslion]

Does it have to be a itx system?

 

Thats the main question to start. If it can just be a small computer tower I'd go that way really.

 

You also seem to already have some issues with the case from the fact its missing a hard drive mount so I'd look at other options.

 

Even tho the 7800x3d is VERY efficient it will reach max temp with that cooler and run slower as the terra sacrifices cooler space for looks.

 

Its a pretty case and looks great just skips a little bit too much on cpu cooling. Pretty much doing a 2014 slim itx style case in terms of cpu cooling which doesnt fly these days.

 

If it has to be itx I recommend going with a different case really.

 

The board is also just crap. Nothing but issues with that thing and its really expensive for what it is.

 

Else nothing really bad here just mainly the case/formfactor that is causing problems

[Agall]

41 minutes ago, TatamiMatt said:

without a fan?

Most AM5 motherboards have some sort of onboard small fan, whether its for VRM, chipset or the M.2 heatsink. The exceptions being that Asrock B650 board and most A620 boards.

[Ringabel]

1 hour ago, Agall said:

I've got this board and wouldn't buy it again. The front I/O daughterboard is finnicky and I ended up not using it (there's power/reset also on the board next to it). Beside the fact that its one of two motherboards I've had to RMA in my life, its just an overly complicated board.

 

If I had to buy another mITX AM5 board, I'd likely go with this guy:

ASRock B650I LIGHTNING WIFI AM5 Ryzen 7000 AMD B650 SATA 6Gb/s Mini-ITX s DDR5 7200+ (OC) 2.5G LAN x WiFi 6E + Bluetooth Motherboards - AMD - Newegg.com

 

The only B650 board I've seen without a fan too, which isn't a problem if you're building it properly.

 

Ooof, good to know about that motherboard. The number of issues people have seemed to have with it do seem to outweigh the benefits of having one extra M.2 slot...

 

That said, can you recommend why you're recommending that motherboard in particular? With this extremely tight case and more power hungry components I am worried about heat. I also see its only got a PCIe Gen 4 x16 slot for the GPU, which I know is fine for the 4080 but if I ever want to buy a hypothetical 6080 or such down the line does concern me.

[Ringabel]

1 hour ago, jaslion said:

Does it have to be a itx system?

 

Thats the main question to start. If it can just be a small computer tower I'd go that way really.

 

You also seem to already have some issues with the case from the fact its missing a hard drive mount so I'd look at other options.

 

Even tho the 7800x3d is VERY efficient it will reach max temp with that cooler and run slower as the terra sacrifices cooler space for looks.

 

Its a pretty case and looks great just skips a little bit too much on cpu cooling. Pretty much doing a 2014 slim itx style case in terms of cpu cooling which doesnt fly these days.

 

If it has to be itx I recommend going with a different case really.

 

The board is also just crap. Nothing but issues with that thing and its really expensive for what it is.

 

Else nothing really bad here just mainly the case/formfactor that is causing problems

 

Yes, I want to build an ITX system. There's a number of builds on PCPP with this exact case and CPU combo, and a few on YouTube as well. I do recognize that its going to be performing a bit worse than a full sized tower, but I am willing to pay a bit for looks and portability.

 

If there are other SFF cases you'd recommend that aren't that much bigger I'm happy to at least look tho, but this is an aesthetic choice rather than a purely performance-based one

[Agall]

5 minutes ago, Ringabel said:

 

Ooof, good to know about that motherboard. The number of issues people have seemed to have with it do seem to outweigh the benefits of having one extra M.2 slot...

 

That said, can you recommend why you're recommending that motherboard in particular? With this extremely tight case and more power hungry components I am worried about heat. I also see its only got a PCIe Gen 4 x16 slot for the GPU, which I know is fine for the 4080 but if I ever want to buy a hypothetical 6080 or such down the line does concern me.

When you're running low internal volume, aka heat capacity, you want to have a good amount of negative pressure throughout the case anyways which'll mitigate hot spots. I spent from 2014-2021 exclusively building mITX systems of various designs for reference.

 

PCIe 4.0 vs 5.0 on a 16x slot is an interesting story. The problem wouldn't be a 5.0 16x GPU but if they start releasing 5.0 8x high end cards or mid range 5.0 4x cards. Any B650 board isn't going to support a 5.0 16x lane though, so for mITX, you'd be sticking to B650e or X670e for that feature.

 

Technically PCIe 5.0 16x graphics cards already exist. If this were an ATX build, I would say its worth getting PCIe 5.0 16x if you're concerned, but in mITX, its a 'compromise' you should probably make.

 

The Terra already has some aesthetic compromises, so something to already consider. The 7800x3D is going to run 'hot' either way without a massive heatsink, so you'll have to run the fan on any low profile cooler high enough to move sufficient air throughout the case. That'll hit secondary components perfectly fine.

 

Also regarding GPU choice, if you're able to snag one of these instead for MSRP, I would.

 

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4080 SUPER 16GB GDDR6X Graphics Card Titanium/Black 900-1G136-2555-000 - Best Buy

[Ringabel]

11 minutes ago, Agall said:

When you're running low internal volume, aka heat capacity, you want to have a good amount of negative pressure throughout the case anyways which'll mitigate hot spots. I spent from 2014-2021 exclusively building mITX systems of various designs for reference.

 

PCIe 4.0 vs 5.0 on a 16x slot is an interesting story. The problem wouldn't be a 5.0 16x GPU but if they start releasing 5.0 8x high end cards or mid range 5.0 4x cards. Any B650 board isn't going to support a 5.0 16x lane though, so for mITX, you'd be sticking to B650e or X670e for that feature.

 

Technically PCIe 5.0 16x graphics cards already exist. If this were an ATX build, I would say its worth getting PCIe 5.0 16x if you're concerned, but in mITX, its a 'compromise' you should probably make.

 

The Terra already has some aesthetic compromises, so something to already consider. The 7800x3D is going to run 'hot' either way without a massive heatsink, so you'll have to run the fan on any low profile cooler high enough to move sufficient air throughout the case. That'll hit secondary components perfectly fine.

 

Also regarding GPU choice, if you're able to snag one of these instead for MSRP, I would.

 

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4080 SUPER 16GB GDDR6X Graphics Card Titanium/Black 900-1G136-2555-000 - Best Buy

 

Sweet! This is the exact kind of response I was looking for. I know I was at least looking at some B650E motherboards but they don't seem to be worth the price I'd be paying.

 

Is there a reason you're suggesting the founders edition? I know I saw with the Terra some people install the PSU reversed so that the GPU blows air into the PSU with blower-style cards like the founders edition, is that going to make temps that much better?

 

I don't plan on buying any components for a bit, so I'll have some time to keep my eyes peeled for that card at MSRP, thanks!

 

Thanks again for the help

[Agall]

1 minute ago, Ringabel said:

 

Sweet! This is the exact kind of response I was looking for. I know I was at least looking at some B650E motherboards but they don't seem to be worth the price I'd be paying.

 

Is there a reason you're suggesting the founders edition? I know I saw with the Terra some people install the PSU reversed so that the GPU blows air into the PSU with blower-style cards like the founders edition, is that going to make temps that much better?

 

I don't plan on buying any components for a bit, so I'll have some time to keep my eyes peeled for that card at MSRP, thanks!

 

Thanks again for the help

The FE has in general the best mITX compatibility with these higher end models. Most of the RTX 4080(S) use RTX 4090 coolers which are hilariously overbuilt as it is. In general, if I had to choose a card, I'd pick the most versatile cooler for various mITX builds, which is the FE model for almost all of the RTX 4000 cards.

 

IMO, the best part about mITX is you're sometimes only $50 away from rebuilding it into a whole other form factor. Having versatile parts is one of the lessons I've had to learn, like staying away from SFX-L PSUs since some cases simply don't support them. They used to be required for higher end builds to get enough wattage/capacitance, but that's not the case with newer SFX PSUs.