Portable dac sounds noticably worse when plugged into iphone compared to pc despite identical settings.

[rippy4500]

Hello,

Ive noticed that my new portable dac+amp (FiiO KA13) sounds noticably worse when plugged into my iphone as compared to my pc. Despite using the same Qobuz app, settings, and files.
 

Both desktop and mobile apps are maxed in software volume (volume is adjusted using the internal volume control of the amp) to eliminate extra processing, and there is no effects or DSP explicitly enabled on either. And percieved volume is the same, I did not change internal volume when testing the differences.

The desktop app is using WASAPI exclusive and should therefore be bit-perfect, it sounds perfect out of this. However when plugged into my phone, there is noticably more distortion, worse separation, detail, and so on. To be fair it still sounds objectivly good so its not a huge issue but it's just not nearly the same as playing through desktop. Tested with the same imported 16/44.1 flac file, audio quality is set to maximum available on both so there should be no difference. Sample rate does get set properly on both as there is an LED on the unit that indicates sample rate, and it changes properly on both platforms, for example changing 16/44.1 to 24/96 will change the led color.

 

And it shouldn't be a power limitation cause if it was the device probably just wouldn't work, I also noticed no difference in operating temperature between devices which should be another indicator of that.

 

I mean I probably already know why, my iphone is probably adding some filter or compression making it not bit-perfect and I can't get around it. But im wondering if you guys have any more details on it or if switching to android would solve this problem. Because according to google, android should be capable of bit-perfect playback, but it wasn't as clear when I looked it up for iOS.

 

Ive wanted to switch to android for a while but never pulled the trigger just cause it's expensive obviously and I don't really use my phone for much aside from music, but now im having so many little issues that make daily tasks annoying and im just kinda done with it.

[Cocococo]

Oooooo this is actually very interesting, Apple's audio encoding (AAC) generally works very well, but FiiO (in the development of their flagship audio players) had to modify AAC encoding to work better with their software, this modification worked it's way into all their portable products and this is where the issues you're having came from, i can't speak for the exact part that's going wrong (i'm not a FiiO engineer) but FiiO's constant need to adapt wireless audio standards just completely borks some configurations that users like to use. 

Generally FiiO products play nicer with Android, but equally you shouldn't need to switch phone because FiiO can't build a decent portable amp. You can try android phones and the issue probably will go away, but if you ever want to use your amp in a desktop configuration then i'd skip FiiO altogether, their track record of power passthrough destroying batteries is just too much to ignore, if you still have a return window then i'd look for a Qudelix 5k, better in every single way (just no 4.4mm jack, i'm so desperate for a 4.4mm version) 

[rippy4500]

13 minutes ago, Cocococo said:

Oooooo this is actually very interesting, Apple's audio encoding (AAC) generally works very well, but FiiO (in the development of their flagship audio players) had to modify AAC encoding to work better with their software, this modification worked it's way into all their portable products and this is where the issues you're having came from, i can't speak for the exact part that's going wrong (i'm not a FiiO engineer) but FiiO's constant need to adapt wireless audio standards just completely borks some configurations that users like to use. 

Generally FiiO products play nicer with Android, but equally you shouldn't need to switch phone because FiiO can't build a decent portable amp. You can try android phones and the issue probably will go away, but if you ever want to use your amp in a desktop configuration then i'd skip FiiO altogether, their track record of power passthrough destroying batteries is just too much to ignore, if you still have a return window then i'd look for a Qudelix 5k, better in every single way (just no 4.4mm jack, i'm so desperate for a 4.4mm version) 

Are you saying it's not just uncompressed PCM like it should be?

I am using the included 4.4mm cable w/ sennheiser IE 900 IEMs if that matters. I have a separate setup for desktop use which is way better than this anyway, this is just for mobile listening (Which I do just as often). I just tested it with my pc cause I know for a fact windows will output bit-perfectly with WASAPI exclusive, and since it sounded worse on my phone I know it's not right.

I want to switch to android for more reasons than this. My iphone stutters in basically everything, has mediocre battery life, and now this.

[Cocococo]

15 minutes ago, rippy4500 said:

Are you saying it's not just uncompressed PCM like it should be?

I am using the included 4.4mm cable w/ sennheiser IE 900 IEMs if that matters. I have a separate setup for desktop use which is way better than this anyway, this is just for mobile listening (Which I do just as often). I just tested it with my pc cause I know for a fact windows will output bit-perfectly with WASAPI exclusive, and since it sounded worse on my phone I know it's not right.

I want to switch to android for more reasons than this. My iphone stutters in basically everything, has mediocre battery life, and now this.

It could be any number of issues, FiiO have this weird obsession with modifying every kind of bluetooth signal their devices receive, if you're this keen on switching to Android then i'd still advise a Qudelix purely because they don't have all the funky encoding modifiers that FiiO love putting on their products (plus Qudelix companion app is wayyyyy better for device status and EQ adjustment) 

[rippy4500]

Just now, Cocococo said:

It could be any number of issues, FiiO have this weird obsession with modifying every kind of bluetooth signal their devices receive, if you're this keen on switching to Android then i'd still advise a Qudelix purely because they don't have all the funky encoding modifiers that FiiO love putting on their products (plus Qudelix companion app is wayyyyy better for device status and EQ adjustment) 

What you're saying is a little confusing, is it acting like a bluetooth device despite being wired or something? Cause you're talking alot about bluetooth when I haven't mentioned it at all and there is no wireless devices in this audio chain. Nor do I plan to use anything wireless in the future.

 

I heard the FiiO parameters that affect sound can be adjusted in the android app as well so there is another reason to upgrade. As the FiiO control app is kinda garbage on iOS and does not detect my KA13. So maybe I can disable it all there when I get an android phone, (IMO less filters = better but that's just my preference, I know not everybody will agree with me). But I know there is a FiiO windows app so I can try that I guess, cause I know when you change settings it's supposed to save into it's firmware.

[Cocococo]

3 minutes ago, rippy4500 said:

What you're saying is a little confusing, is it acting like a bluetooth device despite being wired or something? Cause you're talking alot about bluetooth when I haven't mentioned it at all and there is no wireless devices in this audio chain. Nor do I plan to use anything wireless in the future.

 

I heard the FiiO parameters that affect sound can be adjusted in the android app as well so there is another reason to upgrade. As the FiiO control app is kinda garbage on iOS and does not detect my KA13. So maybe I can disable it all there when I get an android phone, (IMO less filters = better but that's just my preference, I know not everybody will agree with me). But I know there is a FiiO windows app so I can try that I guess, cause I know when you change settings it's supposed to save into it's firmware.

The modified audio encoders work regardless of whether it's receiving a wired or wireless signal, it's where your issues are coming from, android adjustments aren't that great either, idk if they're better than iOS because i don't have an apple phone, i just don't think a bluetooth amp is worth jumping to a different phone for, especially when getting an alternative amp will solve pretty much all of your issues 

[Blue4130]

8 hours ago, Cocococo said:

The modified audio encoders work regardless of whether it's receiving a wired or wireless signal, it's where your issues are coming from, android adjustments aren't that great either, idk if they're better than iOS because i don't have an apple phone, i just don't think a bluetooth amp is worth jumping to a different phone for, especially when getting an alternative amp will solve pretty much all of your issues 

The ka13 doesn't even have Bluetooth... It's fully wired, input and output.

[saintlouisbagels]

11 hours ago, rippy4500 said:

I am using the included 4.4mm cable w/ sennheiser IE 900 IEMs if that matters.

Pretty sure using balanced output on portable DAC’s on iPhone is a no-go.

Even K13’s product page say it outputs more power on desktop when using the 4.4 balanced output. There’s probably more things happened under the hood aside from a straightforward power difference.

[rippy4500]

7 hours ago, saintlouisbagels said:

Even K13’s product page say it outputs more power on desktop when using the 4.4 balanced output. There’s probably more things happened under the hood aside from a straightforward power difference.

I think you're talking about the toggleable "desktop mode" which was off for both tests. Output power should be the same, and I even said output volume didn't change when switching what it was plugged into.
My problem is to do with the quality of the output, not the power.