X470 to 5800X3D

[Salted Spinach]

I am planning to upgrade from my 5700X to 5800X3D. GPU is a 4070 Super that I recently bought. It is evident in some games I am CPU bottlenecked while framerate is below monitor's max refresh rate (1440p 165Hz) like Phantom Liberty

 

Probably never making another upgrade again after this (heading to midlife and now very few new games appeal to me)

 

Issue: My motherboard is an Asus X470 Pro which will never get proper PBO options in the BIOS for the X3D chip. Also I am running four 8GB sticks of single rank b-die 3600Mhz CL14 @ 3866Mhz CL16, 1:1 with FCLK. CPU has a FCLK hole at 3800Mhz. With the new CPU on good B550, I might try for 4000Mhz

 

Considering a few options:

1. I suck it up and use PBO2 Tuner workaround to tune the CPU

 

2. I get a B550 mobo as well. This will grant full tuning in the BIOS and PCIE gen 4 for graphics and my existing 980 Pro SSD. Needs to be a quality mobo because the cheap 4 layer ones might not sustain my memory OC with 4 sticks. Having no troubleshooting features also sucks. I am not buying something that will not last

 

3. I splurge and go B650 + 7800X3D instead. The newer CPU does not cost much more and motherboards cost about the same as B550. But then I will have to also replace 32GB of DDR4. issue is, I will probably never get my money's worth as I am unlikely to run into CPU bottleneck with the new AM4 chip. I play only at 1440p with eye candy.

 

 

All prices converted to USD:

5800X3D is $366

7800X3D is $400

B550 mobo will cost between $185-$240

B650 mobo will cost about $240

DDR5 will cost... haven't looked at it yet

Windows costs me a headache. Price of new license is negligible

 

 

The rest of my setup and requirements:

Corsair RM650x

Arctic LF3 280mm

Samsung 980 Pro + 850 Evo

Don't care for RGB or wifi

I do not stream or do any productivity stuff on my gaming setup

Need 5 USB ports in the rear

5 fan headers (including CPU and pump)

If you suggest a B550m mobo, please show evidence that it has a >4 layer PCB for memory OC

[MiszS]

Imo it's worth to get the 7800X3D, because the 5800X3D is a pretty small upgrade from your current cpu, so I don't think it's worth the money spend

[PDifolco]

2 hours ago, Salted Spinach said:

I am planning to upgrade from my 5700X to 5800X3D. GPU is a 4070 Super that I recently bought. It is evident in some games I am CPU bottlenecked while framerate is below monitor's max refresh rate (1440p 165Hz) like Phantom Liberty

 

Probably never making another upgrade again after this (heading to midlife and now very few new games appeal to me)

 

Issue: My motherboard is an Asus X470 Pro which will never get proper PBO options in the BIOS for the X3D chip. Also I am running four 8GB sticks of single rank b-die 3600Mhz CL14 @ 3866Mhz CL16, 1:1 with FCLK. CPU has a FCLK hole at 3800Mhz. With the new CPU on good B550, I might try for 4000Mhz

 

Considering a few options:

1. I suck it up and use PBO2 Tuner workaround to tune the CPU

 

2. I get a B550 mobo as well. This will grant full tuning in the BIOS and PCIE gen 4 for graphics and my existing 980 Pro SSD. Needs to be a quality mobo because the cheap 4 layer ones might not sustain my memory OC with 4 sticks. Having no troubleshooting features also sucks. I am not buying something that will not last

 

3. I splurge and go B650 + 7800X3D instead. The newer CPU does not cost much more and motherboards cost about the same as B550. But then I will have to also replace 32GB of DDR4. issue is, I will probably never get my money's worth as I am unlikely to run into CPU bottleneck with the new AM4 chip. I play only at 1440p with eye candy.

 

 

All prices converted to USD:

5800X3D is $366

7800X3D is $400

B550 mobo will cost between $185-$240

B650 mobo will cost about $240

DDR5 will cost... haven't looked at it yet

Windows costs me a headache. Price of new license is negligible

 

 

The rest of my setup and requirements:

Corsair RM650x

Arctic LF3 280mm

Samsung 980 Pro + 850 Evo

Don't care for RGB or wifi

I do not stream or do any productivity stuff on my gaming setup

Need 5 USB ports in the rear

5 fan headers (including CPU and pump)

If you suggest a B550m mobo, please show evidence that it has a >4 layer PCB for memory OC

Sec

I'm pretty sure you aren't CPU bottlenecked in CP2077 at 1440p with you setup, as I am not with more res more GPU and a similar *CPU* (edited !)

You will never acheive 165fps at 1440p with any card in CP2077 that's all

Imo your upgrades won't give you any more performance in such sitch (haha) as it's a hard GPU bottleneck

That's why I don't upgrade my 5900X btw

 

 

[Salted Spinach]

30 minutes ago, MiszS said:

Imo it's worth to get the 7800X3D, because the 5800X3D is a pretty small upgrade from your current cpu, so I don't think it's worth the money spend

The upgrade is not for gain in CPU performance. Its to eliminate CPU bottleneck for my 4070 Super when framerate is below 165fps. And I play at 1440p.

 

Hence the overhaul to AM5 might not do much for me compared to just getting the 5800X3D

[MiszS]

6 minutes ago, Salted Spinach said:

The upgrade is not for gain in CPU performance. Its to eliminate CPU bottleneck for my 4070 Super when framerate is below 165fps. And I play at 1440p.

 

Hence the overhaul to AM5 might not do much for me compared to just getting the 5800X3D

The cpu is not rlly a bottleneck here (not at 165fps), so upgrading to 5800X3D isn't going to change much. I don't quite understand what you mean, upgrading the cpu does increase the cpu perfomance, which decreases the bottleneck, and a 7800X3D will make a way bigger difference than 5800X3D, while also having an upgrade path

[Salted Spinach]

3600X vs 5800X3D, 3080.

If you check 3600X and 3800X comparisons, they perform practically identical. In fact when the 2 extra cores are not doing anything, the 3600X runs cooler, allowing it to maintain boost for longer.

 

 

5800X3D vs 7800X3D, 4070 Ti, 1440p

 

 

Keep in mind I have specifically looked for 1440p comparisons using GPU in the ballpark of 3080, 4070, 4070 Ti.

 

The 7800X3D will obviously beat the 5800X3D when using a 4090. I am not buying a 4090 just to see that difference

[BahnStormer]

It all depends on the resolution and games: some combo's favour a fast CPU (especially at 1080P), others hammer the GPU (especially at 4K).... even at your 1440P res, it will vary per game - see the video from HUB today. 

 

If you're staying on your current build, I think your RAM would be better off at 3600MT/sec and then push the RAM timings as hard as you can (CAS12?).

 

I wouldn't entirely rule out the 5800X3D - it would be a nice step up for gaming - worth considering if you're desperate for a no-hassle swap.

 

Do NOT waste money on a B550 board.... if you're buying a new board, you can get a B650 for similar money and it's only ~$110 for 32Gb of good DDR5 (6000MT/sec CL30).... and as you said: there isn't a huge price jump from 5800X3D to 7800X3D isn't huge. 

 

If it is the "last upgrade you're doing", then I'd say  go for it and get onto AM5... if budget is looking tight, then even a 7600 is faster for most gaming that a 5800X3D.... then leave yourself room for a nice straight-swap CPU upgrade later  

 

Keep that CPU cooler though - LF3 @ 280mm is the sweet spot for price / size to performance.

I think you're over-estimating what a decent B650+RAM costs.... my recommended motherboard + RAM = $640 incl the ~$400 CPU!:
 

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D 4.2 GHz 8-Core Processor  ($391.00 @ Newegg) 
Motherboard: ASRock B650M Pro RS Micro ATX AM5 Motherboard  ($134.99 @ Newegg) 
Memory: G.Skill Flare X5 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR5-6000 CL30 Memory  ($106.99 @ Amazon) 
Total: $632.98
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2024-04-02 13:07 EDT-0400

 

I had a slight concern that you will probably be pulling ~500W peaks through that PSU. That said it's only 650W, but the Corsair RMx are single rail TierA.... so should be fine!

[Salted Spinach]

1 hour ago, PDifolco said:

 

Those look like tests done using the highest graphics preset. I am using HUB optimized settings according to the video by Hardware Unboxed. It preserves most of the visual fidelity while vastly improving performance.

 

Currently getting between 90-120fps with high crowd density. However there is a lot of variance because when there are too many NPCs on screen, the CPU has to work on all their AI and I lose a noticeable chunk of my frames

[GuiltySpark_]

Where do you live? Its not the US as you mentioned converting to USD in your OP. If we know, we can better help price parts. 

[PDifolco]

1 hour ago, MiszS said:

The cpu is not rlly a bottleneck here (not at 165fps), so upgrading to 5800X3D isn't going to change much. I don't quite understand what you mean, upgrading the cpu does increase the cpu perfomance, which decreases the bottleneck, and a 7800X3D will make a way bigger difference than 5800X3D, while also having an upgrade path

In OP's case (playing CP2077) *NO* CPU will allow him to reach 165FPS, as limitation is on the GPU even a 4090 at 1440p can't reach it

[Salted Spinach]

48 minutes ago, BahnStormer said:

It all depends on the resolution and games: some combo's favour a fast CPU (especially at 1080P), others hammer the GPU (especially at 4K).... even at your 1440P res, it will vary per game - see the video from HUB today. 

 

...even a 7600 is faster for most gaming that a 5800X3D...

5800X3D is not in that comparison. It is still superior to the 7600 if you look at 7600 reviews...

 

 

48 minutes ago, BahnStormer said:

Do NOT waste money on a B550 board.... if you're buying a new board, you can get a B650 for similar money and it's only ~$110 for 32Gb of good DDR5 (6000MT/sec CL30).

 

...
I think you're over-estimating what a decent B650+RAM costs.... my recommended motherboard + RAM = $640 incl the ~$400 CPU!:

 

If going to AM5, I will be getting a quality mobo, not a cheap one conveniently picked just to make the overhaul look affordable...

 

Where I live...

7800X3D is $400

The mobo will cost $240

32GB of 6000Mhz will cost $133

 

This means spending an extra $400+ to extract what little difference the 7800X3D can get out of my 4070 Super, as compared to the 5800X3D

 

As I mentioned earlier, this is the final upgrade. No better GPU in the future. I am not going to cheap my way into AM5 just to spend more money later on another CPU

 

Budget is not my concern. What is, is whether the amount spent is sensible. If one of my kids wanted a phone or gaming PC, I'd happily spend $5000 upfront because it makes all the difference. Alas that is not the case here

[Salted Spinach]

24 minutes ago, GuiltySpark_ said:

Where do you live? Its not the US as you mentioned converting to USD in your OP. If we know, we can better help price parts. 

Singapore

 

Here the best way to buy high value electronics is through an online platform called Lazada. It has sellers from multiple countries in South East Asia as well as China. Filtering to only my own country is required (otherwise return/RMA is impossible). Beyond that, there is nuance on users part to identify and ignore scam listings.

 

I doubt you are going to bother

[trevb0t]

As others have pointed out, the CPU upgrade will likely not net much if anything in FPS.

If you are going to spend that money, I would sell the 4070S and combine the budget and proceeds for a GPU upgrade. That is where the performance differential will be. 

[BahnStormer]

21 hours ago, Salted Spinach said:

If going to AM5, I will be getting a quality mobo, not a cheap one conveniently picked just to make the overhaul look affordable...

Please do not assume that throwing more money at a board will automatically get you better designed VRMs or more features.

 

Unless somebody is begging to cut corners, I'll recommended the best option.... admittedly still with an eye on value for money, but NOT where I  compromise stability/performance without warning people.

 

The B650 RS Pro is my pick that I will probably be using in an almost no-limits upgrade later in the year - just waiting to see how the 8000 series goes when it is released... only difference is I'll get the "WiFi" version as I want Bluetooth onboard, but you said "no WiFi".

 

Just because I don't have any limits on my budget, it doesn't mean I want to throw money at something for no real advantage.

 

The AsRock RS Pro has 14+2+1 VRM's and really high spec VRM heatsinks, compared to some of the other boards that cost nearly double and only have 8+2+1 and run 20C hotter.... and the other features are very, very similar.

 

For my own build: I started spec'ing with various X670E options ($650-$700 just for the motherboard).... then realised that 24+2+1 stage VRMs were overkill given that the RS Pro can handle an overclocked 7950X easily and the X3Ds run lower power than the non-3D chips.... plus I didn't need the multiple PCIe x16 lanes, so B650's made more sense.

 

The AsRock B650 Taichi came top of that stack: it did everything I needed and had very high spec VRMs for half the price.... then I realised that I could get the same VRMs and still have almost all the features for roughly half the price again (PG Riptide / RS Pro).

 

AsRock PG Riptide B650 / AsRock RS Pro B650 are the sensible choices... with the Taichi being the "luxury" option - it has more fan headers plus a total of 1 USB4 and 11 onboard USB3.2, rather than 8 USB3 in the RS Pro. The other extras are appealing, but not needed: I don't need that much USB3 and I have all my fans on splitters already... plus the Taichi is EATX which is supported, but will be tight in my Lian Li O11 Air Mini.

 

Please watch this before you choose a board based on price.... 

 

[Salted Spinach]

Decided to get just the 5800X3D

 

Considered:

• Managed to find a store selling it for 340. Minimum expenditure to get most (if not all) of what had set out to do
• Use of PBO2 Tuner looks simple enough and cen even be automated. No point spending on a new mobo and having to reinstall everything
• 4070S at 1440p, unlikely to see any substantial difference between 5800X3D and 7800X3D. Especially as future games will be more GPU heavy
• For the cost of overhaul to AM5, makes more sense to instead return my 4070S and get a much more powerful GPU. Alas that is not what I was looking to do

Thanks all for your input!

 

 

[BahnStormer]

Fair call, it's a great CPU and an appealing drop-in upgrade.... long live AM4

 

Perhaps worth waiting for them to announce the AM4 XT CPUs and wait for the price-drop?

 

I'm surprised if there's not much performance benefit in a 7800X3D over a 5800X3D - most games show an improvement of a 7500F over a 5800X3D, but the difference is most noticeable with 1080P single player competitive shooter... the CPU makes less* of a difference in big single player, open world games, especially as the resolution and eye candy get cranked up.

 

*unless you want to crank up Ray Tracing

[Salted Spinach]

3 hours ago, BahnStormer said:

Perhaps worth waiting for them to announce the AM4 XT CPUs and wait for the price-drop?

I dont play waiting games with my upgrades. Based on what AMD did in the past, the XT chips are almost certain to not outperform the 5800X3D. And price of the X3D would not be affected.

 

Enticing people to start builds on AM4 with something more powerful than the 5800X3D, is bad for business and will also cannibilize sales of 7000 series chips below the 7800X3D. This is akin to shooting themselves in the foot.

 

3 hours ago, BahnStormer said:

...most games show an improvement of a 7500F over a 5800X3D, but the difference is most noticeable with 1080P single player competitive shooter... 

I don't play shooters or at 1080p. Could not care less about getting 300fps instead of 400fps when my display is only 165Hz.

 

Games I play are recent major singleplayer titles. Heavier on eye candy, NPC AI, and typically tuned to utilise all cores of modern consoles (8+ cores)

 

Raytracing is not worth the performance impact unless I was using something overkill for 1440p like 4080, 4090, 7900XTX. Even DLSS to recoup the lost performance is not worth it because Raytracing only affects lighting and there is noticeable loss in image detail/sharpness when upsampling